Official MBR Tier List

[KAOSTAR]

mewtwo is 6th from the bottom.

if you take tournament into account you would also place GW right below him moving him to 7

YL should be right above m2 imo maybe above zelda but I wouldn't really know. first person with respectable knowledge on either character im gonna agree with.

 

[omnibus2]

Hey guys, how come luigi is higher up than mario? Does he place higher in tournies? If someone has good links to luigi in tournies I would appreciate it. Thanks.

 

[SDC]

Hey guys, how come luigi is higher up than mario? Does he place higher in tournies? If someone has good links to luigi in tournies I would appreciate it. Thanks.

Go to the melee Luigi boards, and check out their video thread.

 

[omnibus2]

Go to the melee Luigi boards, and check out their video thread.

Thanks

Oh yes I just saw about new tier list early august? Awesome! I just hope falco doesn't move down. I also feel mario might be headed a bit up.

I think it would be cool if the people from MBR would do a write up about the changes in the future tier list. I think it would help the community, and I'm always interested in how changes in between all the tier lists have occured.

 

[KAOSTAR]

even if somebody moves up or down on the tier list they are still exactly the same. no characters get better or worse (except marth)

I hope falco moves all the way down to just below zelda

 

[omnibus2]

even if somebody moves up or down on the tier list they are still exactly the same. no characters get better or worse (except marth)

I hope falco moves all the way down to just below zelda

lol

Yea I know it doesn't change the character; I want to know the reasons that impacted the decisions.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

even if somebody moves up or down on the tier list they are still exactly the same. no characters get better or worse (except marth)

Did you know some G&W mains Hold in R a little bit better they plug in their controller so it's easier to light sheild? some charcters do get better not counting discovers like shining out of shine throws

 

[ShadyMilkman]

even if somebody moves up or down on the tier list they are still exactly the same. no characters get better or worse (except marth)

Well, that depends on whether or not you buy into the whole "tier lists affect metagame development" argument...though I think that's a stretch for a game that's been out for nearly 10 years...

and I would still consider Doc higher than Samus. Consider how much more difficult and how much more effort it takes to do...anything...with Samus than with nearly any other character.

 

[The Good Doctor]

Did you know some G&W mains Hold in R a little bit better they plug in their controller so it's easier to light sheild? some charcters do get better not counting discovers like shining out of shine throws

I thought that was a Donkey Kong thing....

even if somebody moves up or down on the tier list they are still exactly the same. no characters get better or worse (except marth)

I hope falco moves all the way down to just below zelda

Same goes for Mewtwo, He's terrible. I know you like to think he's in mid tier, but that just makes you look silly...

 

[Strong Badam]

Both DK and G&W have awful shields. G&W's light shield is the size his normal shield should be. Barely covers him up.

What? My tier list is sooo good!!!!! Why not move those characters up though. I'm sick of them resting in the bottom

Why not move them up? Because they aren't that good. It's fairly simple bro.

 

[rhan]

What? My tier list is sooo good!!!!! Why not move those characters up though. I'm sick of them resting in the bottom

What have you been puffing on to think that Pika is actually a high tier character? xD

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

pikachu has way to many problems and not good enough of punishment to be in high tier. For pikachu what's really happening is axe is a very very smart player you have to be as pikachu there isn't much tech skill you learn unless you play to the extremes like gambling your life for a bit longer recovery with timing harder than the SWD. pikachu simply has the tools to win in everypossible case in today's ruleset like 95% of the cast. sorry bowser/kirby.

 

[Strong Badam]

to say that pikachu doesn't require much technical skill is kind of silly. in the very least, being able to consistently up-b to the ledge from like anywhere within range of it is impressive.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Peach is considered higher than Falcon because she's more viable in tournament.

Yeah, i don't see it.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

to say that pikachu doesn't require much technical skill is kind of silly. in the very least, being able to consistently up-b to the ledge from like anywhere within range of it is impressive.

Pikachu is easy as f*** OMG up-B stuff b**** please pichu's up-B stuff is 4 times harder. Angles aren't that hard with that monster sweetspot. Also from any point on the stage isn't nearly as useful as you make it sound. if they go flying off the edge and you need on the edge to edge gaurd well f-tilt is one of pikachu's best options and upair facing them, also it's not like your going to be far away form the edge if you since them off so up-B wouldn't save you much time.

in all truth up-B is best used on the edge is to recover, stall, avoid foe, and mindgames that could f*** you over.

simply put JC shines are more useful than pikachu's edge tricks with up-B that are hardish.


really pikachu has like no tech skill other than movement and SHFFLing platfrom but really pikachu isn't that amazing, pikachu sucks.

bowser takes more tech skill I don't use the stick/Y/X to SHFFL and fortess hogging.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Same goes for Mewtwo, He's terrible. I know you like to think he's in mid tier, but that just makes you look silly...

I think its been proven that you are a moron enough times.

I honestly don't know what's wrong with you >__<

 

[N64]

ICG you're making me sad.

I have essentially no comment on comparing the tech skill required for 'advanced pika and pichu techs', but I'd like to think Pikachu does take some tech skill to play.

 

[KAOSTAR]

nope dude....none. lmao 0 tech skill whatsoever. pika is easy all you gotta do is push buttons and win. and up b tricks, angles ninja-pichu ***** it deostn veen matter waht pika cna do cuz it take0 skill.


but just thinking, what if 2 years from now we find everything ICG says is true? sad day it would be

 

[Vyzor]

Pikachu is easy as f*** OMG up-B stuff b**** please pichu's up-B stuff is 4 times harder. Angles aren't that hard with that monster sweetspot. Also from any point on the stage isn't nearly as useful as you make it sound. if they go flying off the edge and you need on the edge to edge gaurd well f-tilt is one of pikachu's best options and upair facing them, also it's not like your going to be far away form the edge if you since them off so up-B wouldn't save you much time.

in all truth up-B is best used on the edge is to recover, stall, avoid foe, and mindgames that could f*** you over.

simply put JC shines are more useful than pikachu's edge tricks with up-B that are hardish.

really pikachu has like no tech skill other than movement and SHFFLing platfrom but really pikachu isn't that amazing, pikachu sucks.

bowser takes more tech skill I don't use the stick/Y/X to SHFFL and fortess hogging.

axe pwns. /discussion

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Falco/Fox/Puff

Sheik/Marth

Peach

Falcon


Thats how i see the tier divisions atm

 

[SDC]

Falco/Fox/Puff

Sheik/Marth

Peach

Falcon


Thats how i see the tier divisions atm

I agree with this, although I am slightly hesitant to put sheik and marth a whole tier below the other top tiers.

I'd just say:

Fox
Falco
Sheik
Jiggz
Marth

What's wrong with five characters in top tier?

 

[Druggedfox]

What's wrong with it? The tier list is based on the current metagame, and marth does not show up in the current metagame, much at all. Falcos and foxes are everywhere, the top two ranked players both use jiggs. Sheik gets more representation than marht, but still not quite as much as the others.

 

[SDC]

What's wrong with it? The tier list is based on the current metagame, and marth does not show up in the current metagame, much at all. Falcos and foxes are everywhere, the top two ranked players both use jiggs. Sheik gets more representation than marht, but still not quite as much as the others.

My point is, just because nobody uses him, or nobody uses him that well for that matter, does not necessarily mean he is not top tier. If nobody used fox, then fox would still be the best in the game, simply because he is objectively, inherently, technically the best character in the game. The character, the character's quality, would still be there, despite the lack of use.

And yes, I recognize that this point is a weak one, because realistically, there would need to be a factual, evidence-grounded basis for it as well, and at this current point in time, marth doesn't have much evidence (evidence being tournament results) supporting his top tier placement.

That being said, maybe I am overrating marth, but I'd still be hesitant to put him below top tier, simply because of the character's inherent strengths.
However, even if the tier list is based primarily from tournament results, we still cannot neglect the inherent quality of a character. As I said, I may be overestimating marth, but I'd be hestitant to put him below top tier simply because of his inherent strengths as a character.

 

[DJRome]

except that people want to define tiers as how the metagame and character representation is

we've been over this, people. it's all a matter of how you want to look at "tiers"

 

[The Good Doctor]

I think its been proven that you are a moron enough times.

I honestly don't know what's wrong with you >__<

Your the one who thinks you can camp with a slow charging/moving/laggy projectile...

 

[P.C. Jona's number 1 fan]

Yeah, i don't see it.

same here twisty

falcon is seen placing high everywhere

the tier list is supposed to represent the current metagame right?

where are all these peaches not named Armada placing?

falcon has better representation and with the exception of one player, places better to.

 

[SDC]

except that people want to define tiers as how the metagame and character representation is

we've been over this, people. it's all a matter of how you want to look at "tiers"

Good question. I think that tiers should primarily represent tournament results, inherent character attributes and quality, and caliber of players using each character. Obviously far more emphasis is put on tournament results.

If I were forced to put numbers on it, and break it down to approximate percentages, it should probably be:

Tier list comprised of:
Tournament results: 60%
Character quality: 20%
Caliber of player using character (s): 20%

How does that sound?

This is why I think that the fairest placement for Jiggz is at the bottom of top tier. Mango is on his own level, by himself, this is common knowledge. But when you factor in Jiggz' inherent quality and her tournament results with the caliber of the players who win with her (don't forget about Hbox, currently second in the world in my opinion), you still get a character who is at the bottom of top tier, just above marth maybe, which is where I think Jiggz should be.

Fox
Falco
Sheik
Jiggz
Marth (maybe/most likely)

Your the one who thinks you can camp with a slow charging/moving/laggy projectile...

I love you Kaos, Vman, Taj, everyone on the mewtwo boards. <3333 full homo no pause......but....

Honestly, if somebody thinks that mewtwo or some other terrible character is tournament viable....should we take them seriously?

 

[Cosmo!]

Falco/Fox/Puff

Sheik/Marth

Peach

Falcon


Thats how i see the tier divisions atm

falcon is definitely up there with peach

 

[ChivalRuse]

Ice Climbers just suck, apparently.

 

[V3ctorMan]

Is there enough evidence to move Yoshi up, if even at least 1 spot =/?

 

[SDC]

Is there enough evidence to move Yoshi up, if even at least 1 spot =/?

-sighs-

-shakes head-

-gives Vman a hug-

"...........No...."

<3

 

[KAOSTAR]

Your the one who thinks you can camp with a slow charging/moving/laggy projectile...

.

for some reason, you think you could approach me right after shadow ball, or that you can shoot them like falco's lasers....

It's really easy to see shadow ball coming....There is
-Lag from throwing
-Lag after throwing

.....It does seem I was over estimating the lag on uncharged shadow balls,....

Eat a ****.



@SDC-I really wouldnt try jumping into to light-heartedly discrediting ppl until you know what you are talking about for starters.

Ppl throw around the phrase tourney viable, but some ppl out there for some strange reason think that means you are setting out to win a national tournament.

When I say that mewtwo is tournament viable I dont mean I think somebody can go almost all mewtwo and win a tournament, despite Iori just doing it. I mean that given the right circumstances you would feel comfortable playing him and expecting a positive outcome in a tournament match. Melee is a deep enough game that alot of characters are usable with the right handler evenespecially at high level play. Since tournaments are won by players not characters its really ignorant to say things like that simply because you were unable to reach the level of success that you wanted with mewtwo. And all that is without even touching the fact that low tiers are underdeveloped and often have more to offer than people realize.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

falcon is definitely up there with peach

Yeah i guess i could see that, falcon is a really good character. Where you and spikes been lately man?

 

[Druggedfox]

My point is, just because nobody uses him, or nobody uses him that well for that matter, does not necessarily mean he is not top tier. If nobody used fox, then fox would still be the best in the game, simply because he is objectively, inherently, technically the best character in the game. The character, the character's quality, would still be there, despite the lack of use.

And yes, I recognize that this point is a weak one, because realistically, there would need to be a factual, evidence-grounded basis for it as well, and at this current point in time, marth doesn't have much evidence (evidence being tournament results) supporting his top tier placement.

That being said, maybe I am overrating marth, but I'd still be hesitant to put him below top tier, simply because of the character's inherent strengths.
However, even if the tier list is based primarily from tournament results, we still cannot neglect the inherent quality of a character. As I said, I may be overestimating marth, but I'd be hestitant to put him below top tier simply because of his inherent strengths as a character.

I understand that, and think marth is an amazing character myself; it's simply that the current metagame doesn't allow for the placement of marth in top tier. I'm trying to think of high level marth players... honestly, none come to mind. M2k has essentially quit marth for sheik. HBK's pretty good. Then who? Cactuar hasn't played marth in forever... although i suppose Taj still plays marth. It's simply an overwhelming lack of character usage, whereas fox and falco are so easy to find good players for just off the top of your head.

Also, while I think marth is great, he has a few questionable matchups, mainly being against falcon and sheik.

 

[Cosmo!]

Yeah i guess i could see that, falcon is a really good character. Where you and spikes been lately man?

up in Wisconsin . I'll be back in chitown soon though

 

[SDC]

@SDC-I really wouldnt try jumping into to light-heartedly discrediting ppl until you know what you are talking about for starters.

Ppl throw around the phrase tourney viable, but some ppl out there for some strange reason think that means you are setting out to win a national tournament.

When I say that mewtwo is tournament viable I dont mean I think somebody can go almost all mewtwo and win a tournament, despite Iori just doing it. I mean that given the right circumstances you would feel comfortable playing him and expecting a positive outcome in a tournament match. Melee is a deep enough game that alot of characters are usable with the right handler evenespecially at high level play. Since tournaments are won by players not characters its really ignorant to say things like that simply because you were unable to reach the level of success that you wanted with mewtwo. And all that is without even touching the fact that low tiers are underdeveloped and often have more to offer than people realize.

Kaos, the only reason why you would ever win a tournament match with mewtwo is if your opponent didn't know what the hell you were going to do. If your opponent actually knows the matchup, basically every good character (fox jiggz falco sheik marth peach falcon etc) DESTROYS mewtwo. The only reason why people win with mewtwo in tournament is that their opponents don't know how to play against somebody who knows how to use mewtwo, or they're Taj and just inherently better then everyone else.

I promise you, if everyone knew how to play against a good mewtwo, mewtwo would most likely never win a tournament match. Never. He's just that bad of a character. I know you love him and want to think he's adequate, but he's not. In melee, mewtwo is a terrible, terrible character, and no amount of wishful thinking or whim wishing will change that.

I understand that, and think marth is an amazing character myself; it's simply that the current metagame doesn't allow for the placement of marth in top tier. I'm trying to think of high level marth players... honestly, none come to mind. M2k has essentially quit marth for sheik. HBK's pretty good. Then who? Cactuar hasn't played marth in forever... although i suppose Taj still plays marth. It's simply an overwhelming lack of character usage, whereas fox and falco are so easy to find good players for just off the top of your head.

Also, while I think marth is great, he has a few questionable matchups, mainly being against falcon and sheik.

True, I have to agree. I still think that Marth is inherently good enough to be top tier, and with enough quality representation he could and would be top tier, but you're right, at the moment, the evidence is that his results simply are not top tier material. =/

 

[Strong Badam]

To be fair, Mewtwo as a character is better than the rest of Bottom Tier.
No one cares about placements in bottom tier, though.

What's wrong with it? The tier list is based on the current metagame, and marth does not show up in the current metagame, much at all. Falcos and foxes are everywhere, the top two ranked players both use jiggs. Sheik gets more representation than marht, but still not quite as much as the others.

So pretty much, the Tier list isn't about how good the characters are, and rather how good the players who use the characters are?

AMAZING STRATEGY, <3 MBR

 

[Strong Badam]

crashboards double post

 

[SDC]

To be fair, Mewtwo as a character is better than the rest of Bottom Tier.
No one cares about placements in bottom tier, though.

Bottom tier is still bottom tier. I don't care whether or not mewtwo beats kirby, he still gets annihilated by Sheik, Fox, Jiggz, Falco, Peach, Marth, and Captain Falcon, and that's all that matters. He even gets destroyed by Ganon and Doc for god's sake.

So pretty much, the Tier list isn't about how good the characters are, and rather how good the players who use the characters are?

AMAZING STRATEGY, <3 MBR

I already posted on this, but I'll copy and paste what I think the definition of a tier list is:

I think that tiers should primarily represent tournament results, inherent character attributes and quality, and caliber of players using each character. Obviously far more emphasis is put on tournament results.

If I were forced to put numbers on it, and break it down to approximate percentages, it should probably be:

A Tier list should be comprised of:
Tournament results: 60%
Character quality: 20%
Caliber of player using character (s): 20%

How does that sound?

 

[Strong Badam]

then call it a character rankings list based on tourney results.