KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
so u are saying that only chu matters for IC?
You guys got beef or somethin?
You guys got beef or somethin?
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wobbles and chu are the only IC's with any real tournament success, and Chu Dat's success is significantly more well-known and profound than wobbles.
they're both quite good players, though.
they're both quite good players, though.
Binx
Smash Master
What has Chu done lately? I still see 4th place coming from Wobbles in most the tournaments he enters*
*Citation needed I made it up ^_^, although I'm pretty sure he was 4th at Mango's Juice
Not denying that Chu has a better record, or that he is amazing, he's one of my favorite players and he mains my main. I'm not even denying that he's the best IC, everyone knows that. What I disagree with is that people think the gap is really huge, it's not.
Trail and Fly and several other ICs place very high on local levels.
*Citation needed I made it up ^_^, although I'm pretty sure he was 4th at Mango's Juice
Not denying that Chu has a better record, or that he is amazing, he's one of my favorite players and he mains my main. I'm not even denying that he's the best IC, everyone knows that. What I disagree with is that people think the gap is really huge, it's not.
Trail and Fly and several other ICs place very high on local levels.
Did extremely well at RoM as well as being one of only two people to take Mango to game 3 in which he almost beat him.
so yeah nothing to big.
so yeah nothing to big.
otg
Smash Master
Not just that but Chu almost beat Mango's JIGGYLPUFF. Not one of his other uber secondaries but his legit main. On top of that, I pretty much only hear about Chu playing Brawl now, but any time he enters a Melee tournament he places top 5. I think I remember him beating Shiz at some tournament in Florida in February, and another one before that as well.
Pretty much: Chu is the ****.
Pretty much: Chu is the ****.
Binx
Smash Master
Chu is a beast, its too true.
Vts
Smash Champion
u also have to remember they allowed wobbling in mango juice so for wobbles it was like a pedophile sweating at a play ground of little kids.
both of them are amazing players its just wobbles hasn't been playing as long so chu has more experience.
but aside of who's good with who or who's better.
IC should stay right where they are in the tier list if not tie with falcon/jiggs.
both of them are amazing players its just wobbles hasn't been playing as long so chu has more experience.
but aside of who's good with who or who's better.
IC should stay right where they are in the tier list if not tie with falcon/jiggs.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
what i dont understand is how a character as limited as Donkey kong is middle tier above the likes of Link and mario and whatnot.
DK has got two ways to fight. If he's facing you, he's pretty much only got his grab combos, and if his back is to you he's only got his back air, so why the **** is he so "high" on the list?
DK has got two ways to fight. If he's facing you, he's pretty much only got his grab combos, and if his back is to you he's only got his back air, so why the **** is he so "high" on the list?
because those are both really good options
JPOBS
Smash Hero
at first i thought it was because his grabs made the match vs spacies doable but then falcos lasers completely shut DK down not to mention if its not FD its done. Then i also realized that (correct me if im wrong) DK's Upair, which is typically what he uses to combo spacies out of grabs has a better hitbox behind his head meaning if you smash DI, ASDI etc to the front of DK the combo isnt nearly as effective cuz it doesnt juggle as well and is very easily escaped. and then lol at dk trying to fight with only bairs.
then marth and falcon crush him, i dont know the sheik/fox vs dk matchup well enough to say though.
I dunno, i figured it was based on how he performs against the higher tiers but even then things look grim, and seeing as how this is a discussion thread i was hoping for more than just cuz they're good options...
then marth and falcon crush him, i dont know the sheik/fox vs dk matchup well enough to say though.
I dunno, i figured it was based on how he performs against the higher tiers but even then things look grim, and seeing as how this is a discussion thread i was hoping for more than just cuz they're good options...
what? as far as I know, DK's does just fine vs. CF and Marth
I thought the worst matchups for DK were Falco, then Sheik, and then nothing else is completely terrible.
I'm not really an expert on any other the matchups besides Falco and I know that one is complete ****, but I thought that other than that and Sheik, he does better than Link and Mario on average vs. Top/High tiers.
I thought the worst matchups for DK were Falco, then Sheik, and then nothing else is completely terrible.
I'm not really an expert on any other the matchups besides Falco and I know that one is complete ****, but I thought that other than that and Sheik, he does better than Link and Mario on average vs. Top/High tiers.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
haha same falco is the only one i know really well
I figured marth is just marth, dk would have trouble getting past the flurry of metal **** and he also gets gimped pretty easy because of his awful vertical recovery
then with falcon he gets combo'd really easily cuz of his weight and size and like i said once you figure out how to DI his upthrow->upair he's got nothing but predictable bairs.
Link at least he has some options with recovery and can fend of marth with good spacing and projectiles. And nair vs falcon is too good. As for spacies, fox/falco generally crushes link but link defnitely has more reliable modes of attack than dk and his uptilt/upair combos vs spacies are more reliable and less stage dependant than anything dk has.
he's also got more reliable finishers.
meh, maybe i jsut think link should be higher in general ^__^
I figured marth is just marth, dk would have trouble getting past the flurry of metal **** and he also gets gimped pretty easy because of his awful vertical recovery
then with falcon he gets combo'd really easily cuz of his weight and size and like i said once you figure out how to DI his upthrow->upair he's got nothing but predictable bairs.
Link at least he has some options with recovery and can fend of marth with good spacing and projectiles. And nair vs falcon is too good. As for spacies, fox/falco generally crushes link but link defnitely has more reliable modes of attack than dk and his uptilt/upair combos vs spacies are more reliable and less stage dependant than anything dk has.
he's also got more reliable finishers.
meh, maybe i jsut think link should be higher in general ^__^
well, you seem to think that your smash DI forward thing has like, revolutionized playing vs. DK and made his combos not work or something, and that's just not right. (don't take this personally, I'm just saying that DIing forward doesn't ruin DK's combos) Good DKs have much more reliable combos than Link vs. just about everyone.
I'm nearly 100% certain that DK vs. CF >>>>>>>> Link vs. CF. CF combos them each pretty much the same amount and at least DK can return the favor, whereas link has to keep throwing **** and nairing and chipping away at CF. Even when Scar was pretty scrubby he still took Skler down and made it look not too difficult.
As for Marf, I don't really know, but I've heard both DK and Link players say that their character is not bad vs. Marth, so *shrugs* I dunno which is more OK vs. him.
I think you're underestimating DK's options. We like to say that all he can do is grab and bair, but the fact that he had grounded up b, giant punch, and uair all impact how you have to play against him.
I'm nearly 100% certain that DK vs. CF >>>>>>>> Link vs. CF. CF combos them each pretty much the same amount and at least DK can return the favor, whereas link has to keep throwing **** and nairing and chipping away at CF. Even when Scar was pretty scrubby he still took Skler down and made it look not too difficult.
As for Marf, I don't really know, but I've heard both DK and Link players say that their character is not bad vs. Marth, so *shrugs* I dunno which is more OK vs. him.
I think you're underestimating DK's options. We like to say that all he can do is grab and bair, but the fact that he had grounded up b, giant punch, and uair all impact how you have to play against him.
hoopspr226
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2007
- Messages
- 279
DK does fine against Marth. He's one of the very few characters in the game that can actually compete/beat Marth in terms of range. His giant punch and forward tilt both outrange anything Marth has, and his bair is about the same range/better than any of Marth's aerials.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Sheik eviscerates DK lolololol
Sheiks just don't know how to d-throw combo DK or tech chase his tech roll or space on him but when you figure it out his options evaporate and leave him as this big shieldless target. You don't even need to camp him much (although admittedly it works very well).
Sheiks just don't know how to d-throw combo DK or tech chase his tech roll or space on him but when you figure it out his options evaporate and leave him as this big shieldless target. You don't even need to camp him much (although admittedly it works very well).
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
DK actually owns Falcon due to Falcon's fastfalling weight, making him juggled easily. Marth, I dunno about, IMO Marth has the advantage in the matchup but other people are saying different, so...
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
no marth v dk and falcon v dk are all pretty even in marths and falcons advantage slightly if were doing the dumb number system something like 60/40 or 55/45 or something
Laijin
Smash Hero
wrong match up.
Uhm, Wrong matchup?
Laijin
Smash Hero
Oh we're talking about DK.
Guess thats what I get for skimming through posts.
DK has the advantage against Falcon, but not Marth. He loses to Marth and Sheik.
otg
Smash Master
Do any of you guys even use DK? It's a myth that he does well vs. space animals. Ban FD, oh ****, now no CG's for you DK. And that's fine, don't ban FD, than you can just camp the **** out of him. Don't mess up your tech, camp the **** out of him, and Don't get grabbed == Dk's screwed. Besides that Sheik hassles the crap out of DK, might even be worse for him than spacies.
Falcon vs. DK is either even or in Falcon's favor slightly. DK is a combo vid for Falcon but DK's got the gimps. Also, DK doesn't have a legit CG on Falcon, just brutal combos if Falcon loses his DJ. They edgeguard one another pretty equally.
Marth vs. DK is def in Marth's advantage, by how much I don't know. Some people claim DK does really well vs. Marth, but DK doesn't have any legit/guaranteed combos on Marth besides the mid% Uair juggle, and I believe he can Cargo uthrow -> Dk Punch at maybe 70, so that's pretty pimp. Besides that, Disjointed hitboxes >> DK's huge bulky body. Get Ken combed.
/rant
Falcon vs. DK is either even or in Falcon's favor slightly. DK is a combo vid for Falcon but DK's got the gimps. Also, DK doesn't have a legit CG on Falcon, just brutal combos if Falcon loses his DJ. They edgeguard one another pretty equally.
Marth vs. DK is def in Marth's advantage, by how much I don't know. Some people claim DK does really well vs. Marth, but DK doesn't have any legit/guaranteed combos on Marth besides the mid% Uair juggle, and I believe he can Cargo uthrow -> Dk Punch at maybe 70, so that's pretty pimp. Besides that, Disjointed hitboxes >> DK's huge bulky body. Get Ken combed.
/rant
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Wow dude. This is why ur post get ignored lol. First of all, this is the wrong matchup. And how many times we gotta tell you "dont bring perfect play into anything." If any character plays perfectlly the only way for the other imperfect character to win is to be metaknight[I think u get what I mean tho].
This question can only be answered by unbreon. I was asking as to why HE discredits wobbles as much as he did and if it was a personal thing or just that Chu's better. or just nothing more than he thinks chu is better and I read into it too much
Dk can do well against marth. He has the range and the power to go with it which makes this a legit fight. Marth is about looking pretty while he plays and he doesnt get down to the knitty gritty. I wouldnt want to trade hits with DK cuz id probably lose this battle. Up+B from the ledge and back air are good marth gimps.
Id honestly much rather go m2 in this cuz hes so big and m2 can control the whole match if he watches out for back airs and shield grabs.
DK himself does well against spacies because he has good range and that ability to combo. He can edgeguard falcon well, as most ppl can, and handles marth which is something that alot of the lower tiers cant do with the exception of link[marth].
Edit: Dk doesnt have to be your main. But if someone picks FD and they are a space animal if ur comfortable then go DK. He is really basic but that **** is effective. I think what really puts him up high is range and power. Most characters will have one or the other and not both as he does. [he isnt super slow either]
otg
Smash Master
I'm not expecting DK to be anyones main, I just don't think alot of people use him and as such shouldn't be discussing all of his matchups. Regardless, Fox/Falco vs. DK on FD is even. Don't get grabbed and camp. Done.
No Falco gives it to DK in the butt on all stages. I've run into Kwan in like, a lot of tournies, and every time I feel really bad cause it goes like:
me, laser combo to 32409217348732%, bair, stock
him, respawn, grab, insane awesome combo that ends in a fair and almost kills me.
me, laser combo to 4132uy432uy4ui32y4iu324%, bair, stock
repeat
I dunno, maybe Sheik and Falco equally **** DK, but one way or another, he gets destroyed by Falco.
me, laser combo to 32409217348732%, bair, stock
him, respawn, grab, insane awesome combo that ends in a fair and almost kills me.
me, laser combo to 4132uy432uy4ui32y4iu324%, bair, stock
repeat
I dunno, maybe Sheik and Falco equally **** DK, but one way or another, he gets destroyed by Falco.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Sheik has teh grabzorz and Dk can't really do big combos to her either.
pew pew pew + shield stab gawdawful shield
let's just agree that both our chracters **** DK harder than the rest of the cast by a lot.
let's just agree that both our chracters **** DK harder than the rest of the cast by a lot.
Laijin
Smash Hero
Okay. 1, I did realize it was the wrong match up. So yea, my bad.
2. I did bring perfect play into this, but that was not the basis of my argument. My point was that Marth has an advantage over Falcon no matter what he does.
That was the point of my Argument.
In that match up, Marth has an answer than is better than falcon's over most situations.
JBM falcon08
Smash Master
This is just a rumor not sure if it honestly was happening but darkrain was apparently beating m2k's marth at event 52, that is the main reason why he went sheik.
Don't quote me on it, but that is what i heard while being at that tournament.
Its a strange matchup, falcons combos don't end on marth regardless of DI lol. Falcon just react to the DI and make some random combo up and have it work.
Don't quote me on it, but that is what i heard while being at that tournament.
Its a strange matchup, falcons combos don't end on marth regardless of DI lol. Falcon just react to the DI and make some random combo up and have it work.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I wasn't disputing Falco's ****, I was just adding what Sheik brings to the table.
I do agree that they both **** DK.
I actually think Falco ***** him worse though, mostly because his only good move against Falco is back air, and he's never going to be able to use it because of projectiles turning him around.
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
Obviously a rumor. M2K goes Sheik sometimes just for the hell of it, not because he gets owned by a Falcon and has his pride hurt...M2K isn't like that.
halcyon.days
Smash Journeyman
I thought it was because M2K can use such a wide range of characters, he didn't want to risk fighting Darkrain with his Marth. Thus, he went Sheik.
otg
Smash Master
actually i'm pretty sure he went sheik cause he was afraid his marth would get *****. he thinks marth falcon is really bad for marth.
ooops, didn't notice the post directly above mine.
ooops, didn't notice the post directly above mine.
Binx
Smash Master
I'm pretty sure m2k went sheik for fun and for no other reason
Laijin
Smash Hero
Maybe we should actually ask the guy. >__>
woody72691
Smash Ace
got any vids with commentary?
Fletch
Smash Master
M2K always says that Falcon has the advantage in the Falcon/Marth matchup, so of course he would pull out Sheik against a player who he knows only plays Falcon when Sheik ***** him and he thinks his normal main gets beat... I'm pretty sure he wouldn't pull out a character just for the hell of it against someone like Darkrain.
Darkrain pshh
He aint got **** on SS
*runs*
He aint got **** on SS
*runs*
woody72691
Smash Ace
does anyone know where i can find vids with m2k and commentary?? anyways sheik ***** in melee but gets ***** in brawl
He went Shek so he wouldn't get the business.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
No, I think thats fair. I wouldnt want ppl trying to tell me m2's matchups when I know for dam sure they dont play him lol. Also I think its funny how u changed ur picture from DK to mario lol. good ****. FTR I was basing my info off discussions from a couple decent players I know that play DK and also playing against him with those characters.
This is very similar to the way quak describes the m2 matchup vs falcon lol.
Yea m2k has his theories and convictions. Im pretty sure he just wanted to do the smart thing and take the better matchup against someone as **** as dark rain. [he would have just given up against ss lol WC!!!]
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