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Official SWF Matchup Chart v2.0

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Nidtendofreak

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That's why I said maybe/possibly gimp. It ain't likely, but its possible. And I'm doubtful Link isn't going to tack on at least a little bit of damage while G&W is recovering between bombs + arrows + hookshot. Its enough screen coverage that something has to hit at some point. Boomerang is also there to mess with G&W's timing.
 

-LzR-

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G&W is like one of the hardest characters to gimp. Not only is it hard, but it's also risky. You don't want to get upB stagespiked or bull**** like that.
 

Seagull Joe

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G&W is like one of the hardest characters to gimp. Not only is it hard, but it's also risky. You don't want to get upB stagespiked or bull**** like that.
Grab edge>Follow up with move as he lands on stage.

:link2: vs :gw: being -1 isn't surprising. :gw: can't absorb his projectiles and Dair probably kills :gw: stupidly earlier. I can't see :gw: keeping :link2: in the air too long with Uair because :link2:'s fastfall is so stupidly fast it might be unsafe for :gw: to try.

Vinnie plays Kirinblaze all the time so I can't imagine him saying this matchup is better for :gw: since he did help make all the matchups this chart and he was actively involved for both :popo: and :gw:.

:018:
 

-LzR-

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Grab edge, if G&W isn't too low he just safely recovered and you are stuck at the ledge.
 

Tesh

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Grab edge, if G&W isn't too low he just safely recovered and you are stuck at the ledge.
There is plenty of lag on GnW Up B if he has to overshoot the ledge. This is especially true when he is being punished by a tether character. Link should have plenty of time to ledgehop a Dair onto GnW. With that said, there shouldn't be any reason GnW is recovering super low vs Link.
 

Seagull Joe

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Grab edge, if G&W isn't too low he just safely recovered and you are stuck at the ledge.
I'm not stuck because he has to land and his options are to drop with an aerial (Most likely Key) or parachute somewhere (This is IF he recovered high after a person grabbed the edge).

People need to grab the edge vs :gw: more.

And I'm pretty sure :metaknight: can Nair :gw:'s up b. I've done it before. Not all of :gw:'s up b is invincible.

Besides trading a :gw: up b with a :link2: dair is a trade in favor of :link2: because up b won't kill him. It'll damage him and put him back up on stage. It could hurt :gw: or potentially kill him. :link2:'s dair has some massive KO power...

:018:
 

Tesh

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GnW can be harmed the frame before he grabs the ledge. Its like marth except more diffcult, but if you get in the way with a sex kick, you should be able to stagespike.
 

-LzR-

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G&W receives crazy lag if he lands exactly to the stage but if he goes a bit over it then he is safe from punished. Link shouldn't ever be dairing G&W from upB.
 

tarextherex

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Utilt is a good move, dsmash too, and in this matchup Link can bair>utilt or dsmash, even grab to finish with uthrow if the player struggles.

As for dair most practical use for it in any matchup is reading a spotdodge then shdair, or hitting the opponent in midair if he doesn't expect it. Whether Link can hit G&W from his up B or not really doesn't make a difference for this matchup's number
 

Alphicans

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GaW usually has more than enough time to force his opponent off the ledge when coming back to the stage. If you DI correctly you should be at the top corner-ish of the blastzone meaning you can drift all the way back the stage while keeping your second jump. With this second jump you can cover the ledge with nair to clear it and then recover safely. It is so rare for any character other than MK to force GaW to recover above the ledge, and I find it really funny there is mention of link doing this.
 

Judo777

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GaW usually has more than enough time to force his opponent off the ledge when coming back to the stage. If you DI correctly you should be at the top corner-ish of the blastzone meaning you can drift all the way back the stage while keeping your second jump. With this second jump you can cover the ledge with nair to clear it and then recover safely. It is so rare for any character other than MK to force GaW to recover above the ledge, and I find it really funny there is mention of link doing this.
Isn't it a little bit of a guess then? Like dont get me wrong I'm not a good GW (i recently picked him up and recovery is something of GW's i dont fully understand) but it sounds kinda like marths set up with DB only on a WAY longer, better, recovery with a move that clears the ledge before you try to snap it. Like if he DJ nairs and they didnt grab the ledge then cant they then grab the ledge and force you on stage?
 

#HBC | Ryker

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Isn't it a little bit of a guess then? Like dont get me wrong I'm not a good GW (i recently picked him up and recovery is something of GW's i dont fully understand) but it sounds kinda like marths set up with DB only on a WAY longer, better, recovery with a move that clears the ledge before you try to snap it. Like if he DJ nairs and they didnt grab the ledge then cant they then grab the ledge and force you on stage?
Sort of? The guess is firmly in G&W's favor seeing as DJ Nair forces space through the stage as well as clearing the ledge. I suppose you can reach it quickly enough to keep him from snapping to the ledge, but then he can just UpB over you or wait until your invincibility wears off before using parachute. Assuming you don't horribly time it and catch the major landing lag from barely reaching the stage, then you should not have significant lag to be hit with a killing blow for guessing wrong. You, at worst, get sent back out there to play your recovery game again. At best, they mess up the timing and have to tech to live and face G&W with control over the edge of the stage.
 

Alphicans

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Isn't it a little bit of a guess then? Like dont get me wrong I'm not a good GW (i recently picked him up and recovery is something of GW's i dont fully understand) but it sounds kinda like marths set up with DB only on a WAY longer, better, recovery with a move that clears the ledge before you try to snap it. Like if he DJ nairs and they didnt grab the ledge then cant they then grab the ledge and force you on stage?
Well the nair covers the entire ledge and then a bit above the ledge, so you can usually have the ledge completely cleared as long as you have your DJ. The key to edgeguarding GaW is to force him to DJ off stage so he's committed to either going to the ledge with no DJ (this is where you can punish him going above the ledge), or what most GaWs will do is upB way over the stage if they're high enough. However it's hard to contend with GaW off stage cause of fair and how quick and safe upB is. Lots of the time you can upB into your opponent as they're chasing you off stage and you'll give damage and usually gain stage control.
 

Luigisama

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What makes this such a difficult match up for Luigi is that aside from perfect shielding, Luigi will always get pushed back when shielding an attack. Aside from his Luigi Cyclone, Luigi does not have any true moves to help him get inside Ike's spacing. Ike's f-air and n-air both out range any of Luigi's attacks in the air or on the ground. On top of that, if Luigi does not perfect shield, then he is pushed back, practically ensuring that Ike does not have to necessarily space perfectly to stay safe.

Luigi's kill moves are difficult to get off on Ike due to the spacing issue. His jab to up+b and F-smash both require Luigi to be close, and as long as Ike plays safe, it's not gonna happen.

Finally, Ike possesses the ability to hinder each Luigi's off stage recovery. Ike can drop down and counter Luigi's missile or simply walk off f-air/spike him as well.

If there is anything Luigi has going for him in this match, it's that once he does get inside, Ike is easy combo material. Damage can rack up rather quickly, but that also becomes more difficult when Ike is already at a higher damage rate.


I'm sorry theboredone, but this write up you made on luigi is okay I guess. But this one thing just shows me you have no knowleadge of my character. Seriously Luigi can jab to fsmash? XD
 

MEOW1337KITTEH

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Will discussions of each matchup be made so that people not in the Back Room can still give input on their opinions? Whether or not the input is listened to is separate, but it would still be nice to see what discussions go into the chart before it is made.
 

C.J.

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Nope. People get asked to take part in the discussions. If you want to talk about MUs, do in now in this thread and prove your point/convince others.

That's... pretty much the entire point of this being a thread.
 

MEOW1337KITTEH

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Good point. I would just like to see what goes on with some of the uncommon matchups. As well as some of the matchups that are not as clearly seen as what they are.
 

#HBC | J

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Nope. People get asked to take part in the discussions. If you want to talk about MUs, do in now in this thread and prove your point/convince others.

That's... pretty much the entire point of this being a thread.
I thought it was an application process for being on the panel? Well alright then, thanks for the info C.J.
 

da K.I.D.

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I was on the panel last time because the sonic rep thats in the BR knows and respects me as a knowledgable player I didnt have to apply, he just came up and asked me
 

#HBC | J

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Gotcha. Thanks. FAE was telling me something of that nature for Lucas' and we have 0 BBR reps atm. Hopefully that will change soon.
 

Ishiey

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Yeah, there is a severe lack of rep for some characters in the BBR :/ in that case we try to pick someone that's at least somewhat knowledgeable about the character community so they can invite fitting panelists, and in really extreme cases might search for a panel leader outside of the BBR.

:059:

:phone:
 

Ishiey

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Looooooooool

Gurl stop
REPORTED :mad:

lol nah I gotcha though. We messed up last time with a few panels that had lost touch with their character communities, and will do our best to avoid such a thing from happening again.

Great gif as usual btw, you never disappoint :p

:059:
 

Nidtendofreak

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REPORTED :mad:

lol nah I gotcha though. We messed up last time with a few panels that had lost touch with their character communities, and will do our best to avoid such a thing from happening again.

Great gif as usual btw, you never disappoint :p

:059:
If you want to avoid that from happening again: ask the character boards themselves who they would recommend. They're going to know better than anyone.
 

Ishiey

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Below is a list of all the panelists, divided up per character. Each panel leader is listed at the top of his panel and is bolded. You may find some top players missing from this list--this is likely because they were contacted and declined to join due to being too busy with life. Panelists per character were selected by the panel member, who in all cases but ICs and Jigglypuff are BBR members.

If you have any questions about the project, please ask away!

:jigglypuff:
Mink
T-block
Orion
You can see the rest of the panelists in that post / the rest of the thread (some panelists were added later)

:059:
 

Neon!

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I just noticed that any character who does significantly bad against shiek (like fox) gets that matchup counted against them twice due to the inclusion of sheilda. I'm sure this has been addressed before but I feel like that hurts fox's overall matchup rating a bit.
 
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