Official SWF Tier List v8

[xDD-Master]

so I've made the executive decision to stop posting nonsense in this thread. I'm on pretty much everybody's ignore lists anyway so it won't be a big change. I'm moving onto bigger and better things, like

Noooooooo :'(

Mario still sucks

 

[ぱみゅ]

If anything, SKTAR2 showed me that Shielda vs DDD is +1
Shielda vs Gordos is -1.

 

[pidgezero_one]

Not that I don't think Snake should be higher, but MK's best placing was 5th (with most of the top MKs attending)
MK for 5th place on the tier list?

Sure, why not?

 

[philbobjoe]

So Diddy 1st, Snake 2nd, Olimar 3rd, IC 4th and MK 5th?

 

[Dekillsage]

stoooooooooooooooppppp

 

[Tesh]

So Diddy 1st, Snake 2nd, Olimar 3rd, IC 4th and MK 5th?

I'd put DK above MK though. DK beats Marth and ZSS, while only losing to diddy and olimar.

5th pika
6th dk
7th mk
8th falco
9th marth
10th wario

 

[FourStar]

OMFG one tournament is not gonna change the whole ****ing tier list guys

 

[philbobjoe]

But I thought the tier list was results based, and these are the latest results.

 

[pidgezero_one]

OMFG one tournament is not gonna change the whole ****ing tier list guys

Tell that to Apex 2012

 

[Sinister Slush]

2013 you mean?
Unless you mean ROB beating MK did something to him in v7 of the tierlist.

 

[infiniteV115]

OMFG one tournament is not gonna change the whole ****ing tier list guys

Well it should.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

2013 you mean?
Unless you mean ROB beating MK did something to him in v7 of the tierlist.

Olimar after Apex 2012

ZSS and Marth after Apex 2013.

If this pattern continues, 3 characters will see drastic rises after Apex 2014 results.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Pretty sure Olimar was doing good everywhere cause of Dabuz Rich Brown Fino Denti etc. stepping it up. Apex helped, but it definitely wasn't the sole reason.

 

[FourStar]

Tell that to Apex 2012

there's a difference between a huge event like apex and just another tournament. apex is worldwide and the best of the best going at it in one tournament. one tournament like SKTAR does not change the tier list that quick. even then, Apex changed the tier list MONTHS after it happened. all i'm saying is will the tier list change? absolutely. just give it time before we start making remarks about the tier list being wrong

 

[FourStar]

Olimar after Apex 2012

ZSS and Marth after Apex 2013.

If this pattern continues, 3 characters will see drastic rises after Apex 2014 results.

a drop in MK's placement in the tier list?

 

[Luigi player]

I'd put DK above MK though. DK beats Marth and ZSS, while only losing to diddy and olimar.

5th pika
6th dk
7th mk
8th falco
9th marth
10th wario

Besides Pikachu, MK, Falco, Marth and Wario this list looks good.

 

[Desu~]

Apex 2014 Jigglypuff will rise im calling it.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Let's pray for the Bracket allowing Jigglypuff vs Ike so people start overrating her.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

If anything, SKTAR2 showed me that Shielda vs DDD is +1
Shielda vs Gordos is -1.

Gordos blow man... They make me sad.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

ZSS went up one spot after Apex, which would have probably happened anyway. Apex had zero affect on ZSS' tier list placement. I'm not sure why anyone is saying that.

Marth on the other hand...

Ed, I love your sheik.

 

[FourStar]

honestly out all the characters on the tier list i still question why sheik is so low. she is so much better than what people think she is. even M2K thinks so

 

[Shaya]

Sheik is Fox-minus in this game.

Both are extremely capable mobility wise vertically and horizontally. Their dash to shields, amazing power shield punishments and whatnot are top class. When you play them "well", you feel restricted by only how fast you can move your controller.

They just get bodied by too much dumb ****. And in Sheik's case, she can never ever kill.

 

[Ghostbone]

Having a **** Ice Climbers matchup has that effect.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I think I should go to a tournament, get into the top 8, and convince everyone to do jigglypuff dittos.

 

[Dekillsage]

puff dittos
puff puff dittos

 

[DLA]

I agree that Sheik is a lot better than her tier placement indicates. She's only so low because ICs/Pika/MK are such awful MUs. If it wasn't for them then I think she'd be BL, maybe even high tier considering how well she does against a lot of other BLs (Fox, Wolf). IIRC in Japan she is highish tier, or at least she was for a while.

 

[Shaya]

I don't think she deserves to be much higher... she's just one of those characters who are actually capable of being used well. Used really really well she's still showing less merit than Donkey Kong.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I am wondering if the lack of KO ability is really all that important or not in brawl. Its certainly a perk if you can set-up into low percent KOs, but how about the ability to lack KO moves and still be able to body a character so well they never get the chance to really retaliate? Smash is a game where at like 400% grabs become KO moves. So eventually lacking a KO move is not really important or even necessary to go for because other options open up.

The point I am getting is could Sheik be one of those characters, but not in the most ideal way? Yes, she lacks any sort of KO power for a long time, but I wonder if its really necessary. Needles will tack on 18% and that's a pretty good number. It is more realistic though that it will not be the full damage though. Anyway, needles are great for punishing aerial landings. Maybe the best move capable of reliably timing and hitting landings due to lasting a long time and covering so much area.

Sheik has a variety of good launchers such as ftilt or her dthrow that put the opponent above her. With her ground speed and acceleration upwards she can reliably punish a variety of options the opponent tries to do in the air in that area. If they attack/air dodge first sheik can be there to catch it. If they get too far away or sheik cannot find a safe opening to attack she can needle the characters landing at the very least to tack on damage. Eventually, all these little exchanges should open up for high percent where she can start getting KOs.

I'm not saying this is top/high tier potential, but enough to probably pull her into upper mid tier perhaps. Either way it would require some results to back up the idea I guess. Having an IC/Pikachu weakness is not completely debilitating to one's tier list potential if you look at DDD. He has a slew of top tier match-up weaknesses and yet manages to place high. While having all manageable match-ups with the rest of the top/high tier (only -1) going even with most of mid tier. So, I do not see much in match-ups putting her behind if you go by that alone. Its probably something like the ease of which she gets these victories and results that are actually putting her behind.

Edit: Actually, going off of match-ups alone DK should fair worse in a tourney environment than Sheik does having worse -2-3 match-ups than Sheik does. And the stagelist is such now that I do not think its bothering her much to make any lasting impressions. Its probably just lack of results for the tier list.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

how about the ability to lack KO moves and still be able to body a character so well they never get the chance to really retaliate?

And what matchup do you think this concept applies to?

 

[Espy Rose]

Sonic vs. King Dedede obviously.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Meta Knight can't KO well.
He either gimps or takes people by surprise and they DI wrong.

*goes away*

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

And what matchup do you think this concept applies to?

Its more the idea of being able to cut off an opponents options and keep them in a bad spot all the time that is more important. Whether or not a person has a strong KO move or not is secondary in this idea. MK can cut off options for a long time against many characters and just happens to have good KO options to boot to end stocks.

The most obvious examples of that idea would be MK versus most characters. Uair to space while being able to catch even ff air dodge through him for example or his ground speed to catch stuff low to the ground while disjoint to eat through aerials. Snake vs many characters in this idea as well since his aerials, nades, and air dodge make it such that they can all be avoid and still in position to punish.

I do not play enough Sheik to know if she can keep someone in a bad position forever, but I think she is built such that she need sonly a few encounters to rack up the damage quickly to allow for her to open up to more KO options other than situations gimps and KOs. If an opponent gets stuck on a platform she is still in a strong position to punish their attempts to get off. At worst, she can reset to neutral by throwing needles to cover landings and get damage.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Sonic vs. King Dedede obviously.

Two borderline viable characters whose matchups against each other has very little bearing on their tier list placement.

...k

 

[Espy Rose]

Just answering your question.
I'd ask you to not be a **** about it, but I'd rather not waste my time.

 

[infiniteV115]

Meta Knight can't KO well.
He either gimps or takes people by surprise and they DI wrong.

*goes away*

Or he just maintains stage control the entire time and builds up your damage quickly while threatening to gimp you and taking minimal damage in the process.
Sure, he doesn't kill most chars til like 140 or 150, but he has absolutely no problem with hitting you offstage over and over again until you're either at that % or you get gimped.

 

[Z'zgashi]

MK still gets kills easier than pretty much everyone in the cast.

 

[-LzR-]

A random shuttle loop at 40% says hi.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

A random shuttle loop at 40% says hi.

Hello Random shuttle loop at 40%!

How are you?

 

[FourStar]

lol shuttle loop and siide smash are the only KO moves used by MK

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

lol shuttle loop and siide smash are the only KO moves used by MK

Dsmash tho

Nair tho