**Official Titans of Smash (ToS) Crew Thread** We Never Died

[Max Ketchum]

I just said that his review would be void if everyone EXCEPT him agrees upon it. That would be stupid, why would I suggest that? Lol.

 

[Rocann]

yeah, so if one person in the people except him disagree, he gets the final say. isn't that what I said?

edit: should've specified. I thought it was explicit enough by just not mentioning chibo til later that the "one person" isn't him.

btdubz everybody I don't actually care about all this, and I'm getting bored because the only person actually arguing against me is choosing alternate paths to go about it about it instead of playing an adult and actually debating what's relevant to the discussion

if anybody wants to be intelligent about it I'm here all day

 

[Max Ketchum]

No, no. I mean that if he's the only one who disagrees, he still can't override that because everyone else wants said hypothetical situation to occur. He SHOULDN'T be able to completely overturn things, is what I'm saying. I kinda worded it strangely, but you know what I mean.

 

[Rocann]

and what I'm saying about what you said is that if it's NOT a unanimous decision (aka at least one person disagrees) then it goes to chibo to make the decision. how is this miscommunication continuing?

 

[Max Ketchum]

Oh, sorry. It doesn't exactly have to be 100% unanimous, really, but I was using that as an example. I feel that majority vote should still apply, but if it's only a slight majority like 55% to 45%, if Chibo supports the 45%, it can be overturned. When it's a clear victory (65% or more, probably), I don't think he should be able to totally change it just because he wants to. I apologize for the miscommunication, I've got a lot of stuff on my mind right now, and lots of stuff to do in real life.

 

[Deleted member]

i suppose we wouldnt need police either because if the general public believes going 120 in a 45mph zone is ok, then we must be right.

I do 145 all the time (electronic limiter) and I got my first speeding ticket a week ago for holding the same speed as other traffic. This is a bad example. Traffic laws and punitive action that I have witnessed thus far have only reinforced to me that the two variables have no correlation whatsoever.

I understand that the most active members should probably carry weight when it comes down to crew decisions, but I have to agree with Andy for the most part on the subject. Relegating weighted values is contradictory to the unity that crew membership offers in the first place, which can be visibly observed over the past few pages of arguing. So long as some members make the key decisions over other to get things done fine, but if the title is a source of friction it should probably be eliminated.

Meximadness I have no idea what you're talking about, and I don't think you know what you're talking about either.

 

[MEXImadnez]

From a totally unbiased, outside view:

Andy is right. He certainly isn't stating that he's better than anyone, nor is he making this argument for his own selfish interests...I too feel that the hierarchy idea is stupid. It's obvious who stands where in terms of player skill, and same for their say in crew matters. Obviously Chibo should hold the largest amount of power, being the founder and doing the most work for the crew (organizing tournaments, writing the main page, etc.), but it shouldn't be by a large margin or anything. Like he said, if the common people (crewmates that the highest members of the "hierarchy" had to approve of to let them in) are going 120 in a 45 zone, then you didn't pick the right common people.

Everyone should cast their opinion in matters, then have it reviewed by Chibo, unless it's a unanimous decision that only he disagrees in.

But hey, what do I know? I'm totally uninvolved. Also, I'm a minor, so my opinion doesn't matter. :D

thats y we have three people to have a balance of power where one person holds all the power.

I haven't looked to you, vex, or chibo for guidance once except for chibo for septa, if you have something to teach me about smash, go ahead and enlighten me; and while you're at it, let me know why I need a leader.

im pretty sure thats u talkin about only urself and not about other peoples interest.

i no wat im talkin about, its just that unlike some people i dont view the world through a childs eye where i think everything is peachy and that everyone is treated equally. f**k that **** my eyes r open and aware of the harsh reality of life. im not gonna lie about placin equal value in everyone, cuz that would b bull****. humans r born different, we r unique and because of that some people r born better than others. i can sit and tell someone, "if u practice enuff, ull b able to beat mew2king one day," its not true because some people r just born naturally better than others.

we created the hierarchy cuz, like b4, we needed people to decide where we hang out, who did crew battles, we needed someone to set the wheels in motion.

 

[blakinola]

wtb civility back in this crew thred, pst

 

[Steel]

i cant catch articuno >_____________<

 

[blakinola]

sleep+ultra ball+down, A+B=articuno get

 

[Deleted member]

i cant catch articuno >_____________<

get 200 pokeballs and a minimize softboiled chansey. minimize 6 times and heal so you don't die, then throw pokeballs till you catch it. you CAN catch any pokemon at full health even w/ a ridiculous catch rate, and it makes a good story when you do.

 

[Rocann]

thats y we have three people to have a balance of power where one person holds all the power.

idk if you missed the point there, but the whole crew had power there

im pretty sure thats u talkin about only urself and not about other peoples interest.

good job taking that out of context, that was after you telling me specifically that I have much to learn, everything else that I have said (and even that, to a large extent) is representative of the sentiments of the rest of the crowd here

emo stuff about how the world works and sucks and how some people are just better than others

if you wanna talk smash skill, I'm down all day for that. but if you really think that in a ranking of who is a better decision maker and all that, that it is gonna fly to say that vex or chibo, in this case (could be anybody) is better than ak (once again, could be anybody) at just being a smart guy, you're completely mistaken

once again you've gone off in a completely different direction. can you please stay on topic?

 

[flizzz]

Ok lets stop the petty arguing and sum it all up. I haven't been here on the boards to see what you guys are arguing about. so just sum it up. We will see which one makes more sense.

 

[Rocann]

read the last 2 pages

 

[Steel]

get 200 pokeballs and a minimize softboiled chansey. minimize 6 times and heal so you don't die, then throw pokeballs till you catch it. you CAN catch any pokemon at full health even w/ a ridiculous catch rate, and it makes a good story when you do.

pro tip right there

thx u

 

[Alex Strife]

we created the hierarchy cuz, like b4, we needed people to decide where we hang out, who did crew battles, we needed someone to set the wheels in motion.

I do not understand this really. Why do you need to tell people what to do? Why can't it be a group decision. Things like this really mess everything up. You guys are really going overboard with this. Relax and have a good time. I mean P.E / T.S we do not have issues like these why don't you guys take a hint and just be a group that just does democracy... it works better.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

I do not understand this really. Why do you need to tell people what to do? Why can't it be a group decision. Things like this really mess everything up. You guys are really going overboard with this. Relax and have a good time. I mean P.E / T.S we do not have issues like these why don't you guys take a hint and just be a group that just does democracy... it works better.

From what I know, Andy is the only person complaining about this, for no reason. Everybody its not a big ****ing deal why don't you just stop like wtf.

 

[Alex Strife]

From what I know, Andy is the only person complaining about this, for no reason. Everybody its not a big ****ing deal why don't you just stop like wtf.

Its a forum you really think telling me to stop on a forum will stop me? lol


Seriously I read this thread and I felt that Andy was saying some very good points and well I agree with him. There is nothing wrong with saying I do not agree instead of following like a good little solider.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Its a forum you really think telling me to stop on a forum will stop me? lol


Seriously I read this thread and I felt that Andy was saying some very good points and well I agree with him. There is nothing wrong with saying I do not agree instead of following like a good little solider.

Insulting me doesn't get you anywhere but k.

I just don't understand why its such a big deal, if he can't handle it leave, nobody else that I know of has complained about this, and if its really that big of a problem then go, I like andy and all but seriousily, and you said it yourself before(refering to andy) you didn't even know there was a hierarchy before you saw the updated first post, so obviousily its not that big of a thing if you didnt notice anything before seeing that.

 

[Alex Strife]

Insulting me doesn't get you anywhere but k.

I just don't understand why its such a big deal, if he can't handle it leave, nobody else that I know of has complained about this, and if its really that big of a problem then go, I like andy and all but seriousily, and you said it yourself before(refering to andy) you didn't even know there was a hierarchy before you saw the updated first post, so obviousily its not that big of a thing if you didnt notice anything before seeing that.

I was not insulting you I was really pointing out something I have noticed with a lot of you and that is that I see some of you as those who just follow orders and do not properly know how to work as a crew. I could make a huge list of problems here but I won't out of respect.

Bottom line if someone like Andy , who does not really have issues with anything really speak up means a lot more than several people. Andy has done a lot in my eyes as a player and as a person since I really met him at NEC and COT4. It is like me telling someone they are a bad T.O after going to their tournament just once. Thats all that matters.

 

[MEXImadnez]

we do decide **** as a group, but we have leaders because things need to b done in order. we cannot let chaos run rampant in our group. andy joined our crew knowin full well that we employ a hierarchy system. its so we dont run around like chickens wit their heads cut off. chibo organizes events to run for the crew and for others to enjoy as well. he asks for the opinion of others b4 he sets things in motion. its not like an oligarchy where we only let a select few rule the entire crew. we have never said "these three people said this, so let it b done." if that were the case then **** would be done WAY differently. every system has its flaws so im not sayin one is better than the other. we cant have a democracy because one group of friends could alter the whole decision makin. we have the three smartest people, in brawl or melee, in the the hierarchy for brawl and melee related things, NOTHIN ELSE!!! andy is makin it seem like we put the hierarchy members on a pedestal and worship their every command and they get special privilages that no one else has. we dont treat them as different people, I only treat those closest to me whom i value more and im not gonna say that i would do ANYTHING for anyone in the crew, cuz i would b lyin if i did. andy's b!tchin isnt gonna get anythin to change. its as vex says, if u dont like it u can go. people join and leave ToS of their own free will. no offense, but I (i dont no about everyone else) dont value the opinions of people who are not in our crew pertainin to ToS related things. i value the opinions of those who i no who arent in the crew, like scar.

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

I also know that this whole arugement is a bunch of bull****. Everyone stfu, make up, and lets do a smashfest soon, shall we?

 

[Steel]

xzax ur sooo cool dude

shut up

 

[MEXImadnez]

its not like we want to cut each others throats, we r just expressin our opinions.

 

[Alex Strife]

I just feel that this crew gets ahead of themselves often and does not really think things through. Due to that a lot of things go to hell. Making a system like that will cause problems and I think as one of the most experienced in gaming and real life I'd definitely say just being more like a group of friends versus attempting to be serious will work out.

Mexi you can say all these things but in my eyes a lot has to be done.

 

[Rocann]

no lol I'm not gonna leave I love everyone here, I just don't see the need for this system and it sitll hasn't been brought to light

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

Alex this isnt a regular crew tho. This crew is friendships and obviously we still people who lead and make decisions for the crew. And like Andy this isn't directly towards you but still. The hiearchy has been around for a long time, and hasn't gotten 1 single complaint before now

 

[Alex Strife]

Alex this isnt a regular crew tho. This crew is friendships and obviously we still people who lead and make decisions for the crew. And like Andy this isn't directly towards you but still. The hiearchy has been around for a long time, and hasn't gotten 1 single complaint before now

Xzax all crews are based on friendships even EC for the most part. I do not think you need a leader just people who can all work together. Yes some will do more than others but I think working together will work out.

 

[MEXImadnez]

I just feel that this crew gets ahead of themselves often and does not really think things through. Due to that a lot of things go to hell. Making a system like that will cause problems and I think as one of the most experienced in gaming and real life I'd definitely say just being more like a group of friends versus attempting to be serious will work out.

Mexi you can say all these things but in my eyes a lot has to be done.

well nothin is gonna change. we never ever used the term hierarchy outside of smashboards. theres no need to argue for somethin so pointless. u cant sit there and tell me that any system of organization is flawless. we arent gonna change anythin, especially when someone outside our crew tells us we r doin **** wrong, no offense. but things have been goin well for now. chibo has never made decisions without talkin it over wit many ToS members. even when it comes to recruitin new members, chibo asks the approval of others. he never just asked me, GOTM, or vex about only our opinions.

 

[Alex Strife]

well nothin is gonna change. we never ever used the term hierarchy outside of smashboards. theres no need to argue for somethin so pointless. u cant sit there and tell me that any system of organization is flawless. we arent gonna change anythin, especially when someone outside our crew tells us we r doin **** wrong, no offense. but things have been goin well for now. chibo has never made decisions without talkin it over wit many ToS members. even when it comes to recruitin new members, chibo asks the approval of others. he never just asked me, GOTM, or vex about only our opinions.

Well in my eyes I see a lot of mistakes that were made since I saw this crew's inception.

Can you clarify this

ven when it comes to recruitin new members, chibo asks the approval of others. he never just asked me, GOTM, or vex about only our opinions

that last part doesn't really make sense lol

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

Xzax all crews are based on friendships even EC for the most part. I do not think you need a leader just people who can all work together. Yes some will do more than others but I think working together will work out.

We dont have a leader. We have selected, trustworthy people who make decisions and still ask the whole crew. But if theres something thats too big for the whole crew to handle, we still need people to make tough decisons

 

[MEXImadnez]

like he never said me, mexi, gotm and vex have decided to let (insert name here) join the crew. he would state i have talked it over wit rouge, vex, .com, gotm, and various others and we decided to let this person join the crew. every decision made has involved more then three ToS members. the hierarchy only decide when there is a stalemate or a close outcome. only the newest members complain about this since they r new to our crew and dont no the travesties that have occurred in our crew before. they expect to get equal treatment as the oldest members do. not to say that we dont care about their input, but we do value those who have been in our crew the longest, or those who we r closest to. we never rule out anyones opinion, but its not like we ever decided anything by ourselves.

 

[MEXImadnez]

We dont have a leader. We have selected, trustworthy people who make decisions and still ask the whole crew. But if theres something thats too big for the whole crew to handle, we still need people to make tough decisons

children have amazin minds lolZ. able to put things so simply which i coudnt.

 

[Alex Strife]

like he never said me, mexi, gotm and vex have decided to let (insert name here) join the crew. he would state i have talked it over wit rouge, vex, .com, gotm, and various others and we decided to let this person join the crew. every decision made has involved more then three ToS members. the hierarchy only decide when there is a stalemate or a close outcome. only the newest members complain about this since they r new to our crew and dont no the travesties that have occurred in our crew before. they expect to get equal treatment as the oldest members do. not to say that we dont care about their input, but we do value those who have been in our crew the longest, or those who we r closest to. we never rule out anyones opinion, but its not like we ever decided anything by ourselves.

I believe in equal say and I think you guys still have a lot to learn about crews and stuff. You should come to more tournaments XD

 

[Rocann]

. every decision made has involved more then three ToS members. the hierarchy only decide when there is a stalemate or a close outcome. only the newest members complain about this since they r new to our crew and dont no the travesties that have occurred in our crew before. they expect to get equal treatment as the oldest members do. not to say that we dont care about their input, but we do value those who have been in our crew the longest, or those who we r closest to. we never rule out anyones opinion, but its not like we ever decided anything by ourselves.

like how me and chibo were walking back from nec9 with rush and m2k and I was like "rush should join the crew" and chibo was like "ok cool what do you think m2k?" he shrugged. chibo then said rush can join and that was that. that decision involved 2 members. why don't you stop acting like you know everything that goes on.

We dont have a leader. We have selected, trustworthy people who make decisions and still ask the whole crew. But if theres something thats too big for the whole crew to handle, we still need people to make tough decisons

selected by who? and when was the last time the "hierarchy" made an official decision regarding anything? because I don't know when it was, it either hasn't happened recently, making the title useless, or I wasn't asked about it, making their ideals false.

as far as I can tell it's a useless title.

 

[Deleted member]

we cannot let chaos run rampant in our group.

I'm the closest thing you're going to find to an embodiment of chaos and I'm already in.

 

[CT Chia]

uhg iv been away from a comp for most of the day. time for a multi quote

i cant catch articuno >_____________<

step it up lol
mow's suggestion was too good lol

I do not understand this really. Why do you need to tell people what to do? Why can't it be a group decision. Things like this really mess everything up. You guys are really going overboard with this. Relax and have a good time. I mean P.E / T.S we do not have issues like these why don't you guys take a hint and just be a group that just does democracy... it works better.

it is a group decision
were not telling ppl what to do
"were" not going overboard. how long has the hierarchy system been in effect? like a year or something? look at how many times its been argued over. this is the first time. andy completely brought this out of no where.
take a hint? we dont have to be like every other crew. infact, iv seen plenty of ways that ToS has gone above and beyond other crews

I just feel that this crew gets ahead of themselves often and does not really think things through. Due to that a lot of things go to hell. Making a system like that will cause problems and I think as one of the most experienced in gaming and real life I'd definitely say just being more like a group of friends versus attempting to be serious will work out.

Mexi you can say all these things but in my eyes a lot has to be done.

You can't be "just" a group of friends and expect to really strive as a true crew. It's easily the base of it, but some things have to be taken seriously. More on this later.

like how me and chibo were walking back from nec9 with rush and m2k and I was like "rush should join the crew" and chibo was like "ok cool what do you think m2k?" he shrugged. chibo then said rush can join and that was that. that decision involved 2 members. why don't you stop acting like you know everything that goes on.



selected by who? and when was the last time the "hierarchy" made an official decision regarding anything? because I don't know when it was, it either hasn't happened recently, making the title useless, or I wasn't asked about it, making their ideals false.

as far as I can tell it's a useless title.

the last time there was talk of changing hierarchy besides recently with mexi's resignation was before you entered the crew, yet alone your first irl tourney.
theres more to the rush story that that... while he was probably one of the most rushed members per say (no pun intended), its certainly more than that. nec was not the first time we met him, vgxpo was. i talked to him a lot there, and immediately after that tourney i knew he could be a potential member. i started talking it over with various people after the tourney. the general response from a lot of members is normally the same, not everyone has the chance to meet ppl right away, especially the south jersey members so their response is that they trust me and if i think he should be in, they they think the same. it wasnt even just at those tourneys, .com even hung out with him to practice between that tourney and nec9 (i wasnt able to that time). seeing him at nec9 only helped further, it was another time to hang out with him, i got more time besides the tourney with walking to get food and at the diner to get to kno him better as a person, andy and .com got to talk to him again, i saw him in a more regular tourney (unlike vgxpo) with average smashers, etc. asking m2k was just a joke. his opinion wouldnt matter, i just asked those of the crew. i asked m2k cause he was walking with us and i knew his answer woudl be idk lol.

this part is not in reference to a single post:

the fact that andy didnt even realize about the hierarchy till now shows a big thing. he had no problem with how things were running but all of a sudden does despite nothing changing.

while true, the hierarchy system might not be the best system, its been proven to work and has been in place in this crew for along time, and id be ****ed if were bout to change it now unless some magical idea comes to fruition that is better.

i do take all suggestions to heart, those in and out of the crew. i especially like those of outsiders, and while i cant take 100% seriously as I know they dont know everything about the inner workings of the crew and our past history, if you don't listen to the public, how will you ever improve your public image and display ourselves as a competitive, inviting, awesome crew. doom made some rly good points, but i dont agree with them exactly per say. while its obvious to see that if anyone in the crew is like a leader, it's me. i organize the crew page, i organize almost every event and tournament weve had, and much more. however, do i want to be seen as the leader? no. am i even the founder of tos? while i saw some people mention that, im not. yes, i was a co-founder and one of the original 5 or so members, the main person who started the idea was mexi, and me and gotm being the first on board and helping start it up. i suppose this sort of started the mind set of the hierarchy way back before we even had it, the three of us had to decide how to run the crew, name it, run it, who to recruit, and more.

whenever ANYONE has ever asked me who is the leader of tos since forever, i always answer: no one really. they always look puzzled either confused of the answer or surprised by thinking i was, and normally il go into more detail saying that we all decide on things, but the ones that do more for the crew or have more of a final decision are the hierarchy members.

are the hierarchy members higher up than other members? while i would say no, and its true, i guess TECHNICALLY in a way they are as there wouldnt be a title then in the first place. i guess higher up is the wrong term. they are valued the same, but as its been said, the hierarchy members have the final say. its the duty of the hierarchy members to value all the members the same and take everyones opinions and make an outcome.

if everyone is in agreement over a topic, then theres no need to even think of the hierarchy, the decision is clear. however, throughout the life of this crew, there have been TONS of arguments and disagreements. bottom line is, we needed a way to solve these problems. we had to find a way to decide who was right and who was wrong. while we have considered just having me as a "leader," i personally did not want that. while i do enjoy having the recognition for my extreme amount of work put into this crew, i dont like to be seen as above my friends or controlling. so the hierarchy was formed, originally as 3 people who were original members of the crew (so they had the original true intent of the crew in mind), who were the most knowledgable of the workings of the crew. IT WAS NOT DEPENDENT ON SKILL! I've seen ppl mention that and it's wrong. while it can be a factor that can help, i do not see skill as a final say qualifier for being a hierarchy member. i personally base it more on ppl skills, holding true to the well intent of the crew, those with the drive to spend time in making the crew better, being a knowledgeable person, and more. if anyone feels the need to ask why any person is or has ever been a certain member of the hierarchy, i would be more than glad to say why i believe they are qualified.

even being a member of the hierarchy and unofficially the leader of the crew, whenever i think of a new idea or a new member, i ALWAYS post about it here on the boards (if possible) and/or talk to as many people about it (on aim/phone/etc). some decisions may be rushed and i dont have the time to ask everyone (especially when the activity of some members comes into play), i still look for trends and using good judgement. for instance, allowing max in recently. vex told me hes interested in joining. i already kno him and would love for him to be in. vex is cool with it. i asked everyone on aim that was on at the time if he should be in. i got about 4 responses which were yes. i text'd some ppl like mexi about it. got about 2 responses both yes from there. so it was a very fast decision, and done late at night, but 8 responses in a row, plus knowing some things like i know gotm would say yes (so 9 essentially), that were all unanimous for yes, and looking at the pros and cons of him being in, it was easy to get him in the crew. however did i even technically ask half or more of the crew? nope.

pretty much, its been said over and over, but you cant have everyone have 100% final say on matters. yes everyone has an equal say in debating the answer, but there always has to sort of be like the final ok on what is the outcome. the hierarchy was chosen to make this decision based on the qualifications i said earlier. think of it also like the hierarchy as being sort of a recognition for those in the crew that have proved themselves to put more work and effort into the crew, who are willing to put themselves on the line for the better good of the crew.

i feel like im almost repeating myself a lot over and over about all this, but for some reason a lot of people arent getting it.

there has to be someone who has a final decision on topics. there are too many disagreements often, and lets face it, some people just arent qualified enough to make decisions (like if they are too biased, or quick thinkers, etc - not to put anyone down).

more referrencing back to strife's earlier post about just being a bunch of friends etc and should be like other crews, i took a look at the crew threads of major crews on the first page of the tea room (and those off the top of my head) and looked at their leadership definitions. im not including stupid "sub-crews" which seem to be da stuff nowadays

\/ this is all stated on the actual crew threads

gamepad elite - leader is bolt
enemy controller - leaders are inui and atomsk, goes even further to have 6 elite members, then EVEN furhter to have 16 regular members. for it to seem that people dont like having ppl ahead of others, this is terrible
phoenix era - leader is snakeee, and i find this interesting how strife seems so adamant against the idea that his own crew thread flat out says there is a single leader
ToE - Pav and Umbra are the 2 leaders
Team MOB - quote from their page: "We chill together, play together, laugh n joke together, and remain cool together.In this Mob there is no set Boss. The Administration makes decisions together. " This is cool stuff and i respect it, thoguh they then list members as captains or enforcers lol, but that doesnt matter. however the difference here is that MOB has 8 members. ToS has 28. You simply can't manage such a large crew the same way.
Delaware's Finest - No captain
Cootoriginals - No captain, though they are a newer crew that merged from two older ones
Zodiac Braves - No captain
Team Supremecy - No captain or leadership method stated
The Tunes - No captain
Finest Reparations - No captain or leadership method stated
When Brawlers Cry Melee - Leader is spammer
Four Swords - now disbanned, leader was jam stunna
TSA - leader is WoZ

pretty interesting results. most smaller crews (with like 10 or less people) have no leaders. its really not needed. all larger crews flat out state their leaders. why is ToS getting slack for what we do? were not even designating leaders. i can only imagine how pissed ppl would be here if we did.

over 2200 word post ftw

 

[flizzz]

Andy dude honestly just be quiet man. Dang there is no need to start all this frustration in the crew. If something is not broke don't try to fix it. And mexi although I belive in what you are saying, I belive you also need to take a seat like seriously can we all just get along? There is a lot of stuff that we all (as a crew) don't know. As a kinda new member myself I just excepted the fact that the older members would have more respect then me. And if I wanted to get respected I will have to earn it. Andy as a kinda new member your not doing that great to get respected. I mean your arguement is false and has no backing to it. Did something come up where you had voted on something and a hi-member shredded you idea? If not then why all the hate? And mexi you being a og and a former hi-memebr I would think you would go about this a little more maturely. I mean if andy was confused or wanted to know why the was hi-members were implemented there was no reason to thrash his on his own thoughts. All I'm saying is no one is right and no one is wrong at the same time. Ever one is entitled to there own thoughts. And people not concerning tos. Please stay outta tos conversations. If you wanna comment, do it once and make it sweet and to the point. If you wanna argue that's what aim and pm's are for. But tos problems are tos problems don't add to them please. That is a little bit of wisdom from the dummest member of tos.......flizzz

Sorry chibo you are right. Ill also apoligize to andy for being a lil harsh.

 

[CT Chia]

lol flizz, telling andy to flat out shutup wont help with frustration in the crew
maybe somethign a bit politer? while i think a lot of his arguments are quite brash and out of the blue, 2 wrongs dont make a right

also, we have chosen the third hierarchy member for tos brawl. were waiting from confirmation from him to make sure hes ok with being a part of it (i normally wouldnt ask but i am with all this controvery going around). we also have a backup in mind.

were also considering in the future moving to 5 members in hierarchy considering how quickly this crew is growing it only seems right to have more representation for more members.

 

[flizzz]

Not to spam the boards or any thing. But chibo iv been wonderinf for the longest of times. Is that a robotic knuckles in you avitar?