Official "Who is going to return?" topic

[Rhyme]

I personally don't see a HUGE roster of characters appearing in Brawl. They only added 8 completely new characters to Melee, the rest were clones. After reworking, removing and replacing some the 26 from Melee; I think something like 28-32 characters will be an appropriate sized roster. This opens up new character spaces to about 8-12.

Reworked Characters:
Mewtwo
Ice Climbers (Either rework mechanics or removed)
Falco (More focus on Aerial attacks)
Young Link (Cel-Shaded if kept)

Removed Characters:
Doc Mario
Pichu
Game and Watch (Style-wise replaced by Wario)
Shiek (Style-wise replaced by ZSS)
Roy

Replaced Characters:
Marth replaced with Ike

Maybe assuming a roster of 40+ was a bit greedy, but 30 is more than a little dissappointing. Especially considering that if you read Sakurai's comments on "How this game came to be made" on the Dojo, he mentions that they will be working on the last instalment in the series, and only someone with his experience and skill could successfully lead such a project. If this will be the last Smash than there better be more than 30.

Wario replacing G-dub? He is one of the last people I could see replacing G-dub, if he gets replaced that is. Given that no one is a better representer of handheld gaming, I would expect nothing less then the "grandfather" as I believe Pickman put it.

 

[Pikminshallruleoverall]

Maybe assuming a roster of 40+ was a bit greedy, but 30 is more than a little dissappointing. Especially considering that if you read Sakurai's comments on "How this game came to be made" on the Dojo, he mentions that they will be working on the last instalment in the series, and only someone with his experience and skill could successfully lead such a project. If this will be the last Smash than there better be more than 30.

Wario replacing G-dub? He is one of the last people I could see replacing G-dub, if he gets replaced that is. Given that no one is a better representer of handheld gaming, I would expect nothing less then the "grandfather" as I believe Pickman put it.

Was that sarcasm If it wasn't... then ok.

 

[T-major]

I have no proof but, last I heard from translation threads, Roy's personality was considered flat and un-appealing. Why would a generally un-interesting character be desired by gamers? Chances are that, if this is in fact true, Roy will then not make it into Brawl.

you seem to be forgeting (or unaware) that Roy's game marks the revival of the FE franchise. FE was considered a dead series since Fire Emblem 5's bad sales. Roy's game signifies the rebirth of a franchise that is now incredably popular. he deserves to be in, no matter how boring his personality is.

the only reason I've seen as too why people wan't Roy gone is because he isn't good in Melee, and/or because he was a clone. but when people talk about Falco, nobody wants him gone. regardless of him being a clone or not. why? because he's a good character! they say "oh gee, they could give him an original moveset" yes they could, but they could also give Roy one (way more easily then they could Falco I might add), so why don't you want him in? because he isn't good, thats why! which is a stupid reason!

I'm going to give every body a test right now. I wan't you too give me at least five logical reasons as to why Roy should be removed, and why Falco should stay (and you can't use Melee performance as a reason). and if your up to it, Why Marth should be replaced by Ike.

 

[MartyTheBarb]

MAN! that purple robot font is really hard to read and it hurts my eyes...interesting point though, except while i dont main as marth anymore (trying to get good with jiggs) it would b sad to see him go, even if he is just being replaced. also i think G&W is here to stay, if for no other reason than his utter originality, and personally i was not "ready" for him, when i unlocked him i was like WTF!!???btw dark samus would be pretty cool. actually someone posted earlier about a "skin" method where the clones would just become other skins that you could choose from, i thought that was the best brawl idea i had ever heard, you could switch between dark samus or Gsuit, or mario and doc mario. i think that would be neat

 

[falco freak]

yea haveing doc as a costume for mario is a good idea. but whats with all these people sayin that G&W should leave. WTF! hes an original. also people wanting ice climbers gone. no way! they should deffinatly stay. heres who i think

Gone:
Doc
Pichu(maybe)
Y.link

 

[Iggy K]

you seem to be forgeting (or unaware) that Roy's game marks the revival of the FE franchise. FE was considered a dead series since Fire Emblem 5's bad sales. Roy's game signifies the rebirth of a franchise that is now incredably popular. he deserves to be in, no matter how boring his personality is.

I may be wrong, but wasn't Melee the reason Fire Emblem became popular again? As for reasons,

1. Roy isn't very popular in Japan, the one place where is game actually came out.
2. I don't know if this is true or not, but I've heard a few times that FE6 didn't sell well.
3. Was just an ad.
4. There are better choices than an unpopular Japan-only lord, Marth, while Japan-only is also the only character that was the main character in two games, and he was the star of the first one, Sigurd , while also Japan-only is the most popular character in the series, and Ike was from a game released everywhere that also popular everywhere.
5. Roy's a clone. I reaslise he can be given a unique moveset, but I think the clones should go before a character with an original moveset is axed.

And I won't give reasons for Falco staying because I don't think his chance of returning is that good.

 

[noe3]

and if your up to it, Why Marth should be replaced by Ike.

1. Marth isn't as well known anywhere BUT Japan, while this is a Japan game Nintendo has been taking into account more and more that Japan isn't the whole of their market.

2. Marth was originally in the game for advertising the FE games coming out, now that THOSE games have grown popular, it would make since that they would be in SSBB instead of him.

3. Newer generations havn't played the old FE game, but have played newer installments, and would like to play as those characters more.

4. It would not be at all hard to change him from his current self to a different FE main character, as in they are all your basic anime-hero-sword wielder types.

5. Newer FE characters(such as Ike) result in a boost in those games sales, the Wii can play GC games don't forget.


There you go, five reasons Marth COULD get replaced by Ike or one of the more recent FE chars, if you don't like them then go ahead and give me 5 reasons he should stay, and why Nintendo should dare think of switching them.

 

[Peppers]

tell u truth i dont think many ppl wuld mind marth bein replaced hes really annoyin to play against and easy for N00bs to pick up so as long as fox stays im cool but i wuld like to c a dif character set then a bunch of clones......no hard feelings any marths out ther

 

[falco freak]

tell u truth i dont think many ppl wuld mind marth bein replaced hes really annoyin to play against and easy for N00bs to pick up so as long as fox stays im cool but i wuld like to c a dif character set then a bunch of clones......no hard feelings any marths out ther

...........fox is allready confirmed dont worry

 

[In the Fray]

I have no proof but, last I heard from translation threads, Roy's personality was considered flat and un-appealing. Why would a generally un-interesting character be desired by gamers? Chances are that, if this is in fact true, Roy will then not make it into Brawl.



I have no proof, that is why I stated that the above was my opinion. I simply figured that the developers would not wait until near the end of development to put in a character that they genuinly wanted to be in the game. I had heard from a few sources that, closer to the release date, Sakurai was given the "OK" to go ahead and add the clones. The clones must then have been the way they are because they were last minute.

Good point, though, about the game being rushed due to its surprise announcal at E3. I hadn't taken that into consideration.

Well im sorry but is that really your reason why you want roy removed or think he should be ? Because of his personallity ? I dont think the devolopers will remove a character because people think their personallity is dull. Thats like saying link is the best character in the game BUT he has a boreing personallity So lets remove him. I dont really think the devlopers are taking such tideous thoughts into mind when placeing the character selection. Not to mention thats just an opinon.


I see your point about the clones... but again allow me to shed light on the other side. Link and young link for example. Their move sets could have been very easy to change. Like giving young link his sling shot for his B attack instead of the bow. or allowing him to use a deku nut to temporaly stun his foe, like mewtwos forward b attack, Or use some of MJ Mask attacks and items for young link. I could go on but i think you get the point. These two characters were made the same perposely because of the fact they are the exact same people. Same with alot of others. pichu ,pika,doc, mario. People like Fox and falco, marth and roy, ganon and falcon are the clones in the game. DIFRENT people with the same moves. Roy is consider a clone because marth is unlocked first... but their both hidden characters. I really dont see why they would make the main character of the game a clone. That just doesnt make sense to me.

I may be wrong, but wasn't Melee the reason Fire Emblem became popular again? As for reasons,

1. Roy isn't very popular in Japan, the one place where is game actually came out.
2. I don't know if this is true or not, but I've heard a few times that FE6 didn't sell well.
3. Was just an ad.
4. There are better choices than an unpopular Japan-only lord, Marth, while Japan-only is also the only character that was the main character in two games, and he was the star of the first one, Sigurd , while also Japan-only is the most popular character in the series, and Ike was from a game released everywhere that also popular everywhere.
5. Roy's a clone. I reaslise he can be given a unique moveset, but I think the clones should go before a character with an original moveset is axed.

And I won't give reasons for Falco staying because I don't think his chance of returning is that good.

Yea you are very wrong. Im astounded to hear you say roy isnt populare in japan. thats like me saying american dislike the Xbox. Or french people dislike french fries. Il get prove and show and post it.

 

[T-major]

I may be wrong, but wasn't Melee the reason Fire Emblem became popular again?

if FE characters in Melee were the reason that the franchise became popular agian, then that still supports Roy. seeing as Roy was one of the two fire emblem character is Melee, that would logicaly make him responsible for 50% of the FE franchises "rebirth". unless of corse, Melee had nothing to do with it. if thats
the case, Roy is still deserving because he stared in the game that renewed the series.

As for reasons,
1. Roy isn't very popular in Japan, the one place where is game actually came out.
yeah, too bad deservedness outways popularity.
2. I don't know if this is true or not, but I've heard a few times that FE6 didn't sell well.
well, obviously it sold well enough to make Nintendo continue the franchise further. if it sold bad, they would have though "oh, I guess no one cares about it anymore" and stoped making it.
3. Was just an ad.
yes, an ad that generated intrest in the game which ultimatly saved the franchise (that sinking in yet?)
4. There are better choices than an unpopular Japan-only lord, Marth, while Japan-only is also the only character that was the main character in two games, and he was the star of the first one, Sigurd , while also Japan-only is the most popular character in the series, and Ike was from a game released everywhere that also popular everywhere.
ok, and how would those three characters be different from each other? to my knowledge, their weapons are all the same, and they have basicaly the same skills. and with everyone complaining about unoriginal characters, people suporting these three characters all at the same time just dosn't make sense.
5. Roy's a clone. I reaslise he can be given a unique moveset, but I think the clones should go before a character with an original moveset is axed.
this one dosn't count because it's based on Melee performance. He's a clone in Melee, but he won't be in Brawl. that makes "he's a clone" an invalid reason. also, seeing as how he is complaetly different from Marth in FE6, nobody can use the "he dosn't have potentail to be original" excuse.

There you go, five reasons Marth COULD get replaced by Ike or one of the more recent FE chars, if you don't like them then go ahead and give me 5 reasons he should stay, and why Nintendo should dare think of switching them.

I can defend him with one reason:

1) He stared in the first FE game ever. the game that's responsible for the entire franchise. without Marth's (and Roy's) game, Ike wouldn't even exist.

that fact alone puts him above all the other characters.

 

[DynamicDuo]

y don't marth & roy become trophies instead, cuz i never played or even heard of fe until i unlock the char.

 

[T-major]

y don't marth & roy become trophies instead, cuz i never played or even heard of fe until i unlock the char.

because thats a stupid idea... I really don't know why you would even think thats a reasonable option...

 

[EnFerris]

3. Newer generations havn't played the old FE game, but have played newer installments, and would like to play as those characters more.

Yeah, but why should we pander to those youngin's? Brawl should be elevating video-game afficianados and making us remember our brief history, rather than make lowest common denominator happy. Where is your pride, mein freund?

 

[EggBomb]

When I made my list it was based on character playing style. Most characters (aside from clones) are extremely different and require unique stratagies. For Example: Jigglypuff plays nothing like Donkey Kong etc...

I eliminated Roy because he was a clone of Marth, and although there are Roy fans out there, Marth is a more frequently used character and does in fact appear in more then a single FE game. I then decided to replace Marth with Ike because I felt that they would play (all moves, speed, damage...everything that goes into "style") too similiarly. From what I understand, Ike is not only in the first FE game to be released in america, but also already has a stage from FE in the game. When SSBM came out I had no Idea who Roy or Marth were, and I had no means of figuring ou who they were because the games they were in were only available in Japan. By replacing Marth with Ike the Japan/NA game gap will not exist in the game, but also more so serve as a bridge in the FE series because Ike's game is already available in NA. T

 

[MiraiGen]

Of course you didn't know who Roy or Marth were, or what Fire Emblem was. They weren't released in the US yet.

An American guy who hasn't been playing emulated, translated games his whole life isn't going to know who Marth or Roy are! Stop using that as a reason that Roy or Marth are going to vanish!

Huff, huff, huff, okay, I'm better.

I doubt Roy is returning. He was advertising space, and he can easily be replaced (and amped up, most likely) by Sigurd, the more popular character. Roy's a badass, don't get me wrong, and I like using him alot, but I don't mind his subsequent absence in Brawl.

 

[Ipslne]

Um... Fire Emblem has been released in the States. For a while now. I'm pretty sure Roy is in the newer one (in the states) and Marth in the one on the DS.

I haven't played either, but my old roommate (and fellow smasher) has both games...

So I'm just gonna have to say everyone's wrong.

 

[MartyTheBarb]

yeah, i knew exactly who marth and roy were, my bro had a FE gameboy advance and a few of his nerdy (but cool) friends recognized them instantly

 

[Pikminshallruleoverall]

Why replace MArth with Ike when you can just have both in?

 

[MasterGary]

i shudint realy hav anything to say here. because i never played fire emblem because i dont realy like rpg's besdies mmorpg's. and i dont know who this ike guy evrywun is talkin about is. i just dont like roy. and to me if there gonna be bringin sumwun els from fire emblem it shud b sumwun who at least uses a difrent wepon than the typical 1 handed sord.

 

[ºOblivionº]

Well... one thing i notice ryme said the clones were added because the game was rushed. And In the Fray said that ssbb will be rushed.. so doesnt that mean there will still be clones ?

 

[Devastlian]

Just to clear this up...Marth was in the the very first Fire Emblem on the NES and the first Fire Emblem on the SNES (the third Fire Emblem altogether) in which the first half was a remake of the original and the second half was it's continuation.

Roy was the hero of the first GBA Fire Emblem (the first portable Fire Emblem and the sixth Fire Emblem) which was never released outside of Japan. He does appear in the game after it in which his father is the hero (it's a prequel) and but this is only a tiny cameo.

So yeah. I saved everyone the trouble of doing the research.

 

[Ipslne]

yeah, i knew exactly who marth and roy were, my bro had a FE gameboy advance and a few of his nerdy (but cool) friends recognized them instantly

oh snap, my bad. Kevin had his for the GBA, not the DS.

 

[Rhyme]

Well... one thing i notice ryme said the clones were added because the game was rushed. And In the Fray said that ssbb will be rushed.. so doesnt that mean there will still be clones ?

Unfortunately, yes. The game being rushed could warrant the inclusion of cloned characters. I would like to think it wouldn't. De-clone the clones was a battle cry after Melee, why would Nintendo repeat its mistake? I would say that Brawl isn't being rushed to the extent that Melee was.

Well im sorry but is that really your reason why you want roy removed or think he should be ? Because of his personallity ? I dont think the devolopers will remove a character because people think their personallity is dull. Thats like saying link is the best character in the game BUT he has a boreing personallity So lets remove him. I dont really think the devlopers are taking such tideous thoughts into mind when placeing the character selection. Not to mention thats just an opinon.

I was linking facts. It makes no sense that a vastly unpopular character would be included in a popular game. If Roy's personality is in-appealing, than people will identify with his game more than they will with him. Just as an example, if a video game character is very cool and a jerk-off, people may like the game but dislike the character. They then wouldn't go to another game featuring all the most popular characters and choose the jerk-off, they will choose the cool character. If consumers didn't like Roy, then whatever the reason, he is unpopular. Link and Samus were not given personalities, only backstories. Maybe they wanted to avoid such a mistake with such cool games?

 

[ºOblivionº]

I dont really know, That kinda doesnt make sense. They knew ahead of time that they were going to make a supersmash bro melee but yet they still had to rush it ? But now a game that came from out of the blue will not be rushed as much as a game that had been planed ahead of time ?

How did you come across the point that videogame characters have personallitys ? I can see if they were placed in a anime of some sort. But even still Ive seen anime characers take on anew personality when placed into a manga. So argueing a personallity defult... and espeacially in a game... is kinda stupid, Since their personallity doesnt show within the game Anyway. So why would devolopers care about such a trivial thing?

Shikamaru From the *Naruto series* has a very dull and boring personality but he is for some reason a very populare character. Basicly you have no point. And I was under the impression roy was a cool character. But thats just my opinion its nothing I can prove, Just as you cant prove hes un-cool. OH look at that, I just proved my point.

 

[Rhyme]

I dont really know, That kinda doesnt make sense. They knew ahead of time that they were going to make a supersmash bro melee but yet they still had to rush it ? But now a game that came from out of the blue will not be rushed as much as a game that had been planed ahead of time ?

How did you come across the point that videogame characters have personallitys ? I can see if they were placed in a anime of some sort. But even still Ive seen anime characers take on anew personality when placed into a manga. So argueing a personallity defult... and espeacially in a game... is kinda stupid, Since their personallity doesnt show within the game Anyway. So why would devolopers care about such a trivial thing?

Shikamaru From the *Naruto series* has a very dull and boring personality but he is for some reason a very populare character. Basicly you have no point. And I was under the impression roy was a cool character. But thats just my opinion its nothing I can prove, Just as you cant prove hes un-cool. OH look at that, I just proved my point.

And for all I know you could be right and I could have just got owned in the face! I was recalling what I had read on a translation thread. I don't know the first thing about FE or Roy. It is not my opinion that his personality is dull. It is my opinion that people might not like him if his personality happened to be dull. As for Shikamaru, maybe his personality is more Silent but Deadly, reserved, laid back and cool. A character doesn't need an insanely complex personality to be interesting, and Shikamaru could be an example of that.

Like I said, I can't say that Roy's personality is/isn't interesting, just saying what I heard in hopes that it might shed light on the current discussion. It is true that personality doesn't carry over into a game, but if that character's personality where he/she is origionally from isn't appealing, it hardly matters what their personality is like within the video game.

EDIT: Maybe Melee was rushed with a rigid release date, while Brawl was rushed to be a launch title and now they have been given a WHOLE EXTRA YEAR. Not so rushed anymore.

 

[T-major]

i shudint realy hav anything to say here. because i never played fire emblem because i dont realy like rpg's besdies mmorpg's. and i dont know who this ike guy evrywun is talkin about is. i just dont like roy. and to me if there gonna be bringin sumwun els from fire emblem it shud b sumwun who at least uses a difrent wepon than the typical 1 handed sord.

well if you played FE6 (Roy's game) you would know that the sword he used in Melee (the Sword of Seals) is acualy a two handed sword in his FE game, and acualy has a ranged attack (which is a big blast of fire), which istantly makes him different the your typical one handed "sord" user... I suggest you do more reaserch before you start making claims...

Um... Fire Emblem has been released in the States. For a while now. I'm pretty sure Roy is in the newer one (in the states) and Marth in the one on the DS.

no, Roy was only playble in FE6. which is Japan only (you can download the translated ROM though). he's in FE7, but only as a cameo at the end... and since when has there been a FE game on the DS!? let alone one that has Marth in it.

 

[Ipslne]

Yeah I already corrected myself on this page... I don't really know much about Fire Emblem, but the characters have appeared stateside. Maybe not too popular to us, but they've still got fans somewhere.

 

[Zook]

You know, guys, people really appreciate it if you post in normal font.

If you don't know about a game, don't make guesses about it.

 

[Ipslne]

lol, they weren't guesses... I went by my roommate, who has FE games with Marth and Roy. Way to pay attention.

 

[MiraiGen]

I'm inclined to believe the rush made Melee's clones, since giving Zelda a brand new movelist and yet Young Link and Gannondorf being clones really doesn't make sense. It seems like they started with the SSB64 characters and worked their way up...

...And about the time they started to make other characters, they said, "Oh, it's supposed to be out when?!", and sent the game to the beta testers.

 

[Zook]

That wasn't to you, Ipslne.

 

[06Falcon]

lol, they weren't guesses... I went by my roommate, who has FE games with Marth and Roy. Way to pay attention.

he has roms, the games have not officially been released here

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

he has roms, the games have not officially been released here

That doesn't mean they aren't available

 

[T-major]

You know, guys, people really appreciate it if you post in normal font.

If you don't know about a game, don't make guesses about it.

is this directed at me? (what's wrong with my font? unless your directing this at Rhyme ) ... if so, what "guesses" am I making?

@Rhyme: even if Roy's personality is unliked, SSB dosn't show personality enough to make it a factor. in SSB all that really matters is what they can do. if a charater has awsome abilities that everybody loves, but a personality that is disliked. if they put them in Brawl, most people would go "oh.... him <_<... wait... he can use that attack in here!?! AWSOME!!! *mained*". same thing with Roy. the only reason people want him taken out is because he was a clone in Melee. and since a lot of people havn't played his game, they have no idea how different he could be.

 

[Rhyme]

is this directed at me? (what's wrong with my font? unless your directing this at Rhyme ) ... if so, what "guesses" am I making?

@Rhyme: even if Roy's personality is unliked, SSB dosn't show personality enough to make it a factor. in SSB all that really matters is what they can do. if a charater has awsome abilities that everybody loves, but a personality that is disliked. if they put them in Brawl, most people would go "oh.... him <_<... wait... he can use that attack in here!?! AWSOME!!! *mained*". same thing with Roy. the only reason people want him taken out is because he was a clone in Melee. and since a lot of people havn't played his game, they have no idea how different he could be.

Ok, I will try to say this one more time. The character's personality within another game has nothing to do with what I am getting at.

A person will be drawn to a character based on whether or not said character appeals to that person. Said character is defined by backstory, mission, person...that's it. The backstory gives you an idea of that character's experiences(most games lack this). Mission is always discribed, either at the beginning generally or over time more completely. Lastly is person: physical features, behavior/personality, other qualities. In this particular example, we have Roy who may have a good storyline, hence players like the game. But the players will never get attached to or sympathize with said character unless they understand the character. If Roy has a lousy personality, he's just who the gamer has to deal with throughout the adventure, not a hero.

If the character's personality is bad, players won't be attracted to the character, and won't feel a desire to try out the character in another game. Hypothetically, if I hated Roy's attitude in FE, why would I say "OH Yes! Now I get the chance to Play Roy!". Without a good character to get attached to, players won't want to pick the character, and his inclusion becomes meaningless.

I think, one way or another, I just killed this point. Also, I believe this was the thread where I mentioned a while back about the Dsmash with Peach? And gravity and all that...well here is that match. I don't know if this is a match Smashers might consider good, if it's not I wouldn't be insulted if you skipped to the end, it was the match finisher, about 6:40 into the vid.

 

[MartyTheBarb]

Well, why shouldnt we guess? isnt that what forums are about, fans making "educated" guesses?
o and, im just not getting it about the personality thing. I have and can play every smash character and i found nothing about their personality that inticed me. The first character i strarted to be good with was marth and i chose him because i liked his moves. However since i used him to play against comps all the time, and becuase it seemd unoriginal to main as marth i decided to in the direction of jiggs (and mario and pikachu....and pichu because hes cute)

 

[MasterGary]

i sorta agree with the personality atracting thing. i find that falco wus the coolest with his show offynes and stuff in the star fox games. i used to chose him in assault also. all of that made me want to play with falco and made me want to get good with him.

 

[ºOblivionº]

I'm inclined to believe the rush made Melee's clones, since giving Zelda a brand new movelist and yet Young Link and Gannondorf being clones really doesn't make sense. It seems like they started with the SSB64 characters and worked their way up...

...And about the time they started to make other characters, they said, "Oh, it's supposed to be out when?!", and sent the game to the beta testers.

lol ok myabe ryhme was right, mah bad girl.

 

[T-major]

I think, one way or another, I just killed this point.

you didn't kill nutin'!

Smash is a fighting game. theoreticaly, the main factor of the characters would be how they fight.

let me give you an example:
to my knowledge, you main Samus right? now. by your logic, you (and others who main her) main Samus because you like her backstory, or mission (seeing as she has hardly no personality, it's not a factor). now. lets say they give Samus moves that don't realate to her at all. things such as hitting people with a squid, truning into a muscrat, and eating babies for her super attack. her moves are now complate crap, and are untrue to her games, or her character. your saying that if this happend, you and every one else who uses her, would still main Samus regarless of this?