Boing! Welcome to The Lucas Q&A Thread. This thread will be used to ask and answer any Lucas specific questions that people may have.
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In my experience so far, Lucas gets a lot of kills by offstage and aerial play. Down and back aerials both spike and come out really quickly, and even without spiking both are still very strong (dair has multiple hit boxes which can gimp, bair has a very strong horizontal launch).PKT2 is so much weaker than Ness', same for the bat it feels, USmash takes an hour to come out, no kill throw except at about 170% or at the edge of the stage and / or with rage, no throw combos at high %; how does Lucas kill exactly ?
It's weird that Ness could get all those early KOs, but Lucas doesn't work like that at all despite having practically the same moves.
Although : I could definetly see Nair or Dair being used to gimp / spike ennemies off stage
Another thing that Ness does better, Lucas' side B doesn't allow free grabs which is sad.
On the plus side, Lucas has lagless, strong aerials, and a plethora of follow ups from landing Nair. (in my opinion)
I don't think this is in the game, tried it and got nothing. But I may have been doing it wrong. The cooldown time (sorry, I suck at official terms) after using PK Fire seems too long to use a down-b right after.I can't play right now, so a quick question.
Does the physics glitch recovery still work like brawl? Where you double jump, PK fire in the opposite direction you jump, and then down b for a speedy horizontal launch.
I gave it a good 30 minutes and couldn't get any progress or trick learning points to it.I really suck at timing the fastfall on the D-throw > foodstool > dairlock
Are there some tricks? or schould I just practice over and over? tried it like over an hour and only got a few locks because I tried to fastfall too early or fastfalled too late and the dair did hit but didn't lock.
I really hate that timing xD
C-Stick is on attack. Tested double Tap down on Smashstick and it worked pretty well but I dont like Smashes omn C-Stick at all.
Lucas has a REALLY hard time killing and playing NAKAT on stream today, he said himself Lucas struggles really hard with getting kills. From my own personal experiences, your primary kill options are Up Throw and Back Throw and I don't think they kill as late as you say they do and I definitely have killed people a lot earlier than that without rage if I recall correctly and well with rage, it kills pretty early. Aside from his throws, really the best kill options for Lucas though are probably F-Smash (safest of his smash attacks and kills early on the ledge), Up Airs, or just going off-stage for those Side B, F-Air, or B-Air kills and it's pretty crucial that you learn how to ledge trump so you can do a ledge trump into Down Smash or B-Air spike. I wouldn't recommend using Up Smash or Down Smash much at all as they're moves that should really only be used for hard reads or punishes otherwise whiffing the attack is a guaranteed heavy punish for the enemy. You have to play be really patient with Lucas and slowly rack up damage and it's essential you keep your spacing and go in for those punishes whenever you can.PKT2 is so much weaker than Ness', same for the bat it feels, USmash takes an hour to come out, no kill throw except at about 170% or at the edge of the stage and / or with rage, no throw combos at high %; how does Lucas kill exactly ?
It's weird that Ness could get all those early KOs, but Lucas doesn't work like that at all despite having practically the same moves.
Although : I could definetly see Nair or Dair being used to gimp / spike ennemies off stage
Another thing that Ness does better, Lucas' side B doesn't allow free grabs which is sad.
On the plus side, Lucas has lagless, strong aerials, and a plethora of follow ups from landing Nair. (in my opinion)
I know that a way to ledge trump with Lucas is to jump off, then use his grab to snag the ledge so that your opponent and snake are holding on at the same time, then zip up, and boot them off. Is that correct?it's pretty crucial that you learn how to ledge trump so you can do a ledge trump into Down Smash or B-Air spike.
The reason you get nair instead of zair is because you are still in a tumble animation. If Lucas is tumbling because he got hit off stage, nair will come out when you hit the grab button. To solve this, either use your double jump, use an attack, or air dodge. After any of these actions, Lucas will no longer be in tumble and you can use zair to grab ledgeI know that a way to ledge trump with Lucas is to jump off, then use his grab to snag the ledge so that your opponent and snake are holding on at the same time, then zip up, and boot them off. Is that correct?
Because his tether grab has failed me too many times to count, personally. I play on the 3DS (I know, I know) and I set my grab to Y. Sometimes when I've been hit off the side, I'll press Y (Which is set to grab) and get a Nair instead. The Zair won't even come out.
So something I theorized is that you must use your double jump before a tether grab is used. But I'm still not sure about the whole process. Could somebody fill me in?
I've been using PK Fire to cover rolls away from me. Also, short hop nair is a solid option for covering rolls behind you. It lasts a long time, and if you hit, you can start a combo with it. Lucas doesn't really have any moves that hit behind him on the ground though, so you have to rely on reads or quick reaction time to cover rolls behindHow would you deal with rolling when playing as Lucas? I often find myself in a situation where someone approaches Lucas and rolls himself right behind Lucas so that down smash doesn't cover him. I have no idea how I could effectively punish massive rolling.
oml THANK YOU! So I was half right on the double jump thing, Oh, this changes a lot. :DThe reason you get nair instead of zair is because you are still in a tumble animation. If Lucas is tumbling because he got hit off stage, nair will come out when you hit the grab button. To solve this, either use your double jump, use an attack, or air dodge. After any of these actions, Lucas will no longer be in tumble and you can use zair to grab ledge
When they roll behind you just turn around then use one of your fast close-up moves. Jab is best (frame 2), but if they are too far away Ftilt (frame 7) will do fine. If you have the read use Fsmash or Grab. Key is simply turning around, since Lucas has nothing to hit behind him.How would you deal with rolling when playing as Lucas? I often find myself in a situation where someone approaches Lucas and rolls himself right behind Lucas so that down smash doesn't cover him. I have no idea how I could effectively punish massive rolling.
It goes through projectiles too. It's not a combo move, Zairs never are save ZSS'. Watch some Link footage to get the idea. You can read their follow-up: shield with grab, jump with dash attack (you'll catch them in jump starting frames). Also if you space it at the tip and miss you can read what they do next: they'll often jump so you can catch them with full hop Fair or Nair, or walk up shield which yields you another grab.So what set-ups does Z-Air offer? I've been using it as a quick spacing tool, but haven't found any follow-ups out of it as of now.
The spike hitbox is at the top of the attack right while lucas is upside down, and it lasts until the end of the move after that I believe. Practice it in training mode, it really doesn't take too long to get used toAny tips for Back Air's usage and how to gurantee a kill? Does the opponent need to be right in with Lucas foot as soon as he magically attacks? Percentage requirement?
Traits of Lucas that Ness doesn't have:Okay, so this information is probably somewhere on the boards, but several google searches later, I can't seem to find it.
What are the main differences between Lucas and Ness? (and why is this not a stickied topic?)
There are problems with Zair buffering. You seem to get an attack when you buffer Zair out of hitstun. If you buffer it after one of your own attacks with the Z button you'll get an airdodge. A way to ensure that won't happen is to airdodge first, then press Z or A to cancel the airdodge into a Zair, you'll never get that again.Not exactly a Lucas-exclusive question, but sometimes when Ipush the grab button and try to zair or tether grab when recovering, I end up doing a Nair or Fair instead. Why? How I break out of this habit?
There's this and other shenanigans near the ledge, and there's following it up with an Fsmash or using it in combination with Jab. Dtilt hits frame 3, which is 4 frames faster than our frame 7 Ftilt btw (jab is frame 2, Utilt frame 4).And are there any good uses for Dtilt? I don't find myself using it much when Ftilt exists since it seems to come out crazy fast.
I don't quite get your story, and your question is very broad. I would recommend providing us with a video for critique in the video thread, that would probably help you out a lot more than mere theorizing based on a small description.Recently, it seems as if I have continued to play worse and worse. There are something that I feel like some of you guys could help me with. For instance, recently, an issue I've been having is my approach game with Lucas. Played a couple of matches, and what I saw was I would approach my opponent with Lucas and go into a forward A, my opponent would L-cancel downwards, and while I was still lagging from my move, he would strike. It seemed as if this was going on throughout the entire match and was very frustrating, as I would try to land several moves with failure. Is there something I could do to help my approach game with Lucas? How could I play spaced out better? Any tips?
i dont think you can pivot his down smash... or maybe the timing's different compared to other characters.Is anyone else having problems trying to turn around down smash? There have been so many times where I attempt this but he just ends up facing the same way and I whiff. Sometimes I'll hit with the backside of the move but that's not the point.
It seems significantly more difficult with Lucas than anyone else. Maybe I'm just crazy :/
Give the Lucas metagame some time to develop. You can join the Lucas Skype group to see if any Lucas players want to play.hello fellow lucas players-
i was wondering what type is lucas (offensive or defensive?) and how to play him effectively? I would also LOVE to vs any fellow lucas players, but i only have the 3ds game.
No it works just fine for me -- you do mean just turning around then doing down smash right?Is anyone else having problems trying to turn around down smash? There have been so many times where I attempt this but he just ends up facing the same way and I whiff. Sometimes I'll hit with the backside of the move but that's not the point.
It seems significantly more difficult with Lucas than anyone else. Maybe I'm just crazy :/
I agree his grab is bad, and a bad grab hurts a character a lot. It is good the grab pay-off is excellent, but it must be the worst tether grab. Link's grab was improved this patch, since it did not make sense for his Zair to be much longer: let use hope someting simlar happens with Lucas'.Speaking of the snake, it is a terrible grab. The lack of grab armor and awful speed just guarantees I won't grab anyone right in front of me because either they roll away or the jab my face. And the range is bad as well.
Approaching with Lucas is hard against characters that like to camp such as ROB. But this is a problem that many characters face, and people who use those characters (such as DK, bowser, lucario, etc) have all found ways to deal with it. Therefore, I think Lucas players just need time to figure out the best way to deal with the campy characters.And I thought approaching with Ness was hard. Lucas has like 0 options to approach. I hear everywhere about "use PK Fire and Zair", but I disagree. PK Fire is slow and has bad range. Ness's cheap imitation has more range. Yes, I tested it. Then the Zair snake is pathetic. It barely has any range and the landing lag is hindering. Then they say, use Nair. That thing is really easy to intercept and hard to use. Most of the time, I won't hit the final hit when the oponnent is grounded and I get jabbed in the face. Forget jabs, the lag is so awful an smash attack can be done. Fair is a crappy version of Zelda's fair.
I actually think this matchup is in Lucas's favor. The two main reasons I think Lucas beats Roy are comboing and edgeguarding.And does anybody here feels Roy to be a bad matchup? Lucas can't touch Roy at all. PK Thunder is abysmally slow, PK Fire has bad range an 0% followups, the snake tickles him, the snake can't grab him in close quarters because disjointed jab/roll, and Roy punishes hard every single thing Lucas does. You just end up eating Side Smash, DED, and jabs the entire match. PK Thunder gimps you say. PK Thunder is abysmally slow. Then I play Ness and it's the complete opposite.
Thanks for the tips. Been abusing jabs, tilts, fair, nair and bair lately. Also learning Uair juggles and other stuff. A question I have is how and when I use my smashes? I find Up Smash to be too situational/disrespect move.Approaching with Lucas is hard against characters that like to camp such as ROB. But this is a problem that many characters face, and people who use those characters (such as DK, bowser, lucario, etc) have all found ways to deal with it. Therefore, I think Lucas players just need time to figure out the best way to deal with the campy characters.
As for approaching characters that aren't trying to camp the ledge, you can try to bait your opponent into approaches and punish their approaches with pivot grabs, pivot ftilts, PK fire, or SH nair out of shield. Mix up the baits with actual approaches such as run up shield, SH nair, cross up SH nair, and the occasional zair or dair.
I actually think this matchup is in Lucas's favor. The two main reasons I think Lucas beats Roy are comboing and edgeguarding.
Roy is a fast faller, and therefore gets comboed very hard by Lucas. You can basically string SH nairs from one side of the stage to the other and Roy can't get out. Finish the string with an uair for 45% or more damage. Lucas is also very floaty, and this causes him to get out of some of Roy's combos earlier than other characters.
When it comes to edgeguarding Roy, this is extremely simple. Roy's recovery is super linear and has no mixups. Unlike Marth and Lucina, if Roy counters while off stage, he dies most of the time because of his fall speed. This makes it quite easy to go out there with fair, nair, bair, or dair and gimp Roy. Also, PK thunder destroys his recovery. I've killed many Roys at less than 50% by simply clipping them with PK thunder. Yes, this move is a lot slower than Ness's, but it is better at gimping as it can push the opponent away from the stage if you get the right hitbox. Ness's always pops them up and towards the stage and is more of an annoyance and combo tool rather than an actually gimping move.
Just stop over extending yourself with grabs and PK fires and you won't die at 50% to that stupid fsmash.
U-smash can be used to hard read a get-up attack or roll,Thanks for the tips. Been abusing jabs, tilts, fair, nair and bair lately. Also learning Uair juggles and other stuff. A question I have is how and when I use my smashes? I find Up Smash to be too situational/disrespect move.(Like PK Flash).Side Smash has the same garbage range as Ness's and Lucas has better options to intercept projectiles. I have killed with D-Smash with hard reads and I know of it's weird hitboxes but I still find it too situational.
I only use upsmash when I knock the opponent onto a platform and hard read their tech option.Thanks for the tips. Been abusing jabs, tilts, fair, nair and bair lately. Also learning Uair juggles and other stuff. A question I have is how and when I use my smashes? I find Up Smash to be too situational/disrespect move.(Like PK Flash).Side Smash has the same garbage range as Ness's and Lucas has better options to intercept projectiles. I have killed with D-Smash with hard reads and I know of it's weird hitboxes but I still find it too situational.
I always use this too. Super safe. I would say it works for average weighted characters up to 28% or so.Are there any percentages to when Dthrow>utilt will work/stop connecting? Similar to Kirby's Bthrow>bair.
There are more damaging options, sure, but it's free damage off of a grab, so I can't complain.