Olimar general discussion

[Hevy_Santana]

Being a brawl and pm Olimar main. Watching Amsa play Olimar in smash4 right now makes me so happy lol.

 

[Matthew]

It's not a trade because neither character takes damage.

T.Link bounces off the Pikmin, and neither character takes damage.

It works with all Pikmin, yes.

Also Yellow doesn't have larger hitboxes on all of its moves anymore.

U-Air, U-Smash, and D-Air are all the same size as other Pikmin. Other hitboxes have been toned down to only be very slightly bigger in most cases.

Yellow is pretty much the worst Pikmin to have.

I have done plenty of tests and yellow pikmin do in fact have larger hitboxes on fair and bair, although I have not tested it it dair or up air. The larger hitboxes to not apply to smash attacks as far as I know.

 

[Matthew]

It's not a trade because neither character takes damage.

T.Link bounces off the Pikmin, and neither character takes damage.

It works with all Pikmin, yes.

Also Yellow doesn't have larger hitboxes on all of its moves anymore.

U-Air, U-Smash, and D-Air are all the same size as other Pikmin. Other hitboxes have been toned down to only be very slightly bigger in most cases.

Yellow is pretty much the worst Pikmin to have.

I have done tests and yellow pikmin do in fact have larger hitboxes on fair and bair. I have not tested with dair and up-air. As far as I know, the larger hitboxes do not apply to smash attacks.

 

[B.W.]

F-Air and B-Air have a hitbox size of 4.3 while other Pikmin have a hitbox size of 3.7.

Literally only a 0.6 difference, it's almost no different at all.

Hitbox size data, as well as data such as damage, base knockback, knockback growth, and more are in the Frame Data thread.

Yellow's hitboxes are almost exactly the same, and Yellow does the least amount of damage after Leaf/Bud White and has the worst knockback.

Just throw it away.

 

[steelguttey]

although its good for juggling floaties at early percents due to low knockback

 

[B.W.]

It would be, but I'm pretty sure that Yellow's hitlag modifier I think it was, which would apparently would also help extend combos, is also worse than the rest of the Pikmin.

I'd still rather just have Red or White for combo extensions. Especially Flower White. That thing is stupid.

 

[steelguttey]

its funny in the pikachu matchup when you stuff her everything

 

[Hevy_Santana]

What would be the ideal pikmin line up i need to beat lucas. I have so much trouble figuring this out

 

[B.W.]

Purple x4.

That's also the answer to every matchup. Olimar actually is top tier with that lineup probably.

But really, Purple, Blue and White are all the most useful probably because these are, in my opinion, the most useful Pikmin overall save for specific matchups.

None of the Pikmin have any specific kind of advantage in this matchup, so a certain lineup isn't going to make the match easier. This is also true for most matchups.

 

[B.W.]

Also double posting because I need to get people's attention.

I just realized we already have a general discussion for Olimar. It's titled "Captaining Project M: Olimar Discussion"

@ KuroganeHammer is it possible to merge the two threads, so that the first post of this one comes after the last post of the other one? Or just lock one or something. We don't need two of these.

 

[Matthew]

I h

It's not a trade because neither character takes damage.

T.Link bounces off the Pikmin, and neither character takes damage.

It works with all Pikmin, yes.

Also Yellow doesn't have larger hitboxes on all of its moves anymore.

U-Air, U-Smash, and D-Air are all the same size as other Pikmin. Other hitboxes have been toned down to only be very slightly bigger in most cases.

Yellow is pretty much the worst Pikmin to have.

I have done several tests

F-Air and B-Air have a hitbox size of 4.3 while other Pikmin have a hitbox size of 3.7.

Literally only a 0.6 difference, it's almost no different at all.

Hitbox size data, as well as data such as damage, base knockback, knockback growth, and more are in the Frame Data thread.

Yellow's hitboxes are almost exactly the same, and Yellow does the least amount of damage after Leaf/Bud White and has the worst knockback.

Just throw it away.

Sorry about the same comment posted several times, my computer was not working properly yesterday.

 

[Matthew]

F-Air and B-Air have a hitbox size of 4.3 while other Pikmin have a hitbox size of 3.7.

Literally only a 0.6 difference, it's almost no different at all.

Hitbox size data, as well as data such as damage, base knockback, knockback growth, and more are in the Frame Data thread.

Yellow's hitboxes are almost exactly the same, and Yellow does the least amount of damage after Leaf/Bud White and has the worst knockback.

Just throw it away.

You are right, it does not make much of a difference, but sometimes it is better to keep a yellow pikmin if it is flowered because you would be trading it in for a weaker one and you would have to wait for it to gain strength. I bet in later updates the PMBR may further increase the hitbox for yellows. Sometimes it is also better to keep a different kind of pikmin instead of white because if it is your opponent's last stock and they are already at a high percent, white pikmin don't KO until about 150-180% so you would just be giving the opponent more time to live. In that situation, I would suggest to get rid of it.

 

[Matthew]

although its good for juggling floaties at early percents due to low knockback

Sometimes the better combo instead of juggling to do against floaties like Luigi and Zelda are Up-throw->fair->fair->dash attack->fair

 

[B.W.]

Except there literally isn't a worse Pikmin than Yellow except Leaf/Bud White, and even then I prefer White because the explosion forces mistakes when you latch it onto someone.

Also knockback values don't increase with Pikmin age, only damage.

 

[Matthew]

Except there literally isn't a worse Pikmin than Yellow except Leaf/Bud White, and even then I prefer White because the explosion forces mistakes when you latch it onto someone.

Also knockback values don't increase with Pikmin age, only damage.

Knockback does increase with pikmin age. The PMBR even showed it in the 3.0 trailer.

 

[B.W.]

Knockback values don't increase though. The way the game calculates the knockback means that if the attack does more damage it will knockback a little farther than a move with the same knockback value doing less damage, but the base knockback and the knockback growth don't actually increase with age.

Also PMBR showed us a lot of things in their trailer and told us a lot of things in the info page.

But I just prove something otherwise today: http://smashboards.com/threads/theres-no-vertical-boost-with-fewer-pikmin.357917

Who knows what else has been overlooked. I'm sure we'll see things that are overlooked fixed in the future though.

 

[Matthew]

Knockback values don't increase though. The way the game calculates the knockback means that if the attack does more damage it will knockback a little farther than a move with the same knockback value doing less damage, but the base knockback and the knockback growth don't actually increase with age.

Also PMBR showed us a lot of things in their trailer and told us a lot of things in the info page.

But I just prove something otherwise today: http://smashboards.com/threads/theres-no-vertical-boost-with-fewer-pikmin.357917

Who knows what else has been overlooked. I'm sure we'll see things that are overlooked fixed in the future though.

Thank you for clarifying the knockback value for me. I also watched the video you made about the vertical boost with pikmin chain and that is undeniable evidence that the PMBR made a mistake. I am sure that they will patch this in later updates. Another thing is that Olimar's up-special has a better grab range to the ledge without any pikmin than with 1 or 2, but if you do the up-b without pikmin, there is no hotbox. I think that if there was a hitbox on the empty hop it would really improve his recovery.

 

[B.W.]

You guys are making me want to play Olimar at the weekly tournament I go to tonight.

It's also hard dropping a character you put so much work into.

 

[GrizzleDrizz1ed]

So I just practiced cycling Pikmin and figured out a pretty good method for it. You essentially need at least 2 Purple Pikmin to do it effectively. Basically you have 2 Purples and pluck a new one. Then you throw the 2 Purples at the opponent to keep them at bay or rush them with a 2 hit attack and immediatly toss the non purple off the edge and pluck another. You generally have 3 Pikmin at all times and 4 if you get a 3rd Purple. Unfortunatly I don't think you can really do it if your going for any other color since you need the threat of knockback from purple. Try it out and see how it fairs.

 

[steelguttey]

http://smashboards.com/threads/olimar-matchup-thread-this-weeks-matchup-bowser.357981/

go

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Also double posting because I need to get people's attention.

I just realized we already have a general discussion for Olimar. It's titled "Captaining Project M: Olimar Discussion"

@ KuroganeHammer is it possible to merge the two threads, so that the first post of this one comes after the last post of the other one? Or just lock one or something. We don't need two of these.

I didn't get this notification

I'll do it when I'm uncapped (so a day or two)

 

[Hevy_Santana]

If only getting 4 purple pikmin consistently was that easy

 

[GrizzleDrizz1ed]

If only getting 4 purple pikmin consistently was that easy

Chances are you won't get 4, but it is quite possible to get 3. Which is pretty powerful.

 

[Matthew]

Chances are you won't get 4, but it is quite possible to get 3. Which is pretty powerful.

Or what you could do is get 1 or 2, then throw away all non-purples, but it would really hinder Olimar's recovery. However, if you have good DI, then your second jump and aerial pikmin pluck should be enough to get you back as long as you recover high.

 

[B.W.]

I've only ever had 4 Purple once. I was so powerful

 

[GrizzleDrizz1ed]

I've only ever had 4 Purple once. I was so powerful

Same here. My goal really isn't to get 4 Purples though, It's generally trying to get 3 Purples with the 4th Pikmin as either a White or Blue. Having 2 Purples is pretty solid and just accepting it if you also have any combination Whites and/or Blues. I have found that having that mindset has helped me get a better set faster and it kinda throws the opponent off. They thing that when you run to the edge that your going to toss one off and be vulnerable, but then you turn around and combo them. Fun Stuff. But I still want it to come out in a set order. Just keepin that out there.

 

[Hevy_Santana]

My favorite line up is two purples a red and a blue. Ive never had more then 2 purples at a time though

 

[steelguttey]

alright so i figured out grab ranges (since they were nerfed and were never revealed on how long they are) and i measured this with blocks in the training rooms stage (the decimals are from eye so they arent precise)

purple (2.6 blocks)
blue (2.95 blocks)
red (2.8 blocks)
yellow (2.6 blocks)
white (2.9 blocks)

im not sure about the yellow length and idk how to convert it into an actual length but i'll get on that

EDIT: alright so that was all a bunch of lazy bull**** and based aerodrome gave me actual ranges

"All except purple pikmin have nerfed ranges

Purple: 0.6
Red and Yellow: 0.7
Blue and White: 0.8"

 

[B.W.]

Yeah. It's all so minimal. Honestly though Brawl grab range would have been too good.

I recorded some of me playing with some people. Mostly friendlies. I'm going to pick out some of the matches though since I was playing with a lot of people that were new to the scene and I don't feel that those matches are any form of example to go by.

Also I don't want those people to feel bad and end up not coming back.

 

[steelguttey]

Yeah. It's all so minimal. Honestly though Brawl grab range would have been too good.

I recorded some of me playing with some people. Mostly friendlies. I'm going to pick out some of the matches though since I was playing with a lot of people that were new to the scene and I don't feel that those matches are any form of example to go by.

Also I don't want those people to feel bad and end up not coming back.

the range is still pretty damn good, but not the best anymore.

btw join the skype group we need more peeps

 

[B.W.]

Skype is my mortal enemy.

 

[Matthew]

alright so i figured out grab ranges (since they were nerfed and were never revealed on how long they are) and i measured this with blocks in the training rooms stage (the decimals are from eye so they arent precise)

purple (2.6 blocks)
blue (2.95 blocks)
red (2.8 blocks)
yellow (2.6 blocks)
white (2.9 blocks)

im not sure about the yellow length and idk how to convert it into an actual length but i'll get on that

EDIT: alright so that was all a bunch of lazy bull**** and based aerodrome gave me actual ranges

"All except purple pikmin have nerfed ranges

Purple: 0.6
Red and Yellow: 0.7
Blue and White: 0.8"

Since Olimar has a tether grab, the active frame comes out later than normal grabs, and that can sometimes make shield grabbing dangerous if the opponent is close to you.

 

[B.W.]

So some unfortunate news.

Some of the footage I thought I was recording didn't all record.

Kind of a shame because I was playing an Ike player who's on a very similar level as me for a good amount of time, and I know a lot of people haven't seen that matchup.

 

[robosteven]

yellow sucks and i wish it wouldnt exist. its good for the pikachu matchup and thats it.

And Lucas.

 

[Matthew]

So some unfortunate news.

Some of the footage I thought I was recording didn't all record.

Kind of a shame because I was playing an Ike player who's on a very similar level as me for a good amount of time, and I know a lot of people haven't seen that matchup.

I would post some of my Olimar gameplay, but I do not have any proper methoods of recording.

 

[robosteven]

Oh, we're discussing Oli gameplay?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXn5CE6p8BA

Here I am lol

 

[fami]

Yo, Olimar player from Germany here and I got a question:
What decides if enemy gets into a tumbling animation after U/Dthrow? Mostly referring to the spacies (Fox, Falco, Wolf). It's possible to chain-dthrow couple of times but I dunno when it's gonna stop working

 

[B.W.]

Yeah I've seen this match before. Good show for sure, match could have gone either way.

If there's one thing I'd like to see from you, and other Olimar players as well, is making use of Whistle to make Pikmin cut in line.

It's an especially handy way to get Purple up front again right after just using it, and with Purple ready to cut the rest of the Pikmin it gives you a real projectile at the ready as well.

Against Ness, one trick that took me longer to come up with than is like to admit is using Pikmin Throw and aiming at Ness's head. If a Ness tries to use PK Thunder it will just get eaten by the Pikmin and Ness will lose a stock.

 

[steelguttey]

just a general tip

when you are doing usmash chains and you see a purple coming up, dont usmash with purple unless you know it can kll. instead just short hope fair and try to switch pikmins or jus go back into the fray.

 

[Matthew]

Oh, we're discussing Oli gameplay?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXn5CE6p8BA

Here I am lol

That was really good gameplay.
Whenever Ness is above you you should up smash or up air instead of nair because those attacks will keep Ness above you, and Ness does not have many options when Olimar is below him.
Olimar's fair can edgeguard Ness' PK thunder 2 and Olimar's dair can meteor it if it is spaced very well.