Olimar is he that powerful?

[Luxferre]

Hey everyone,
I just wanted some advice from Olimar players.
Heres my story:
I'm actually a Samus/ZSS player.
After getting my *** kicked several times from a very good player, I wanted to jut try something new, and I play with Olimar.
I still losted, but I wa for him a much better match up.
That battle was the 3rd time in my live where I played Olimar.
(1. in the SSE, 2. Classic mode)
In the fight I was even trying things out to see what they do. "So thats how you throw the pikmin!"
And after a few games we stop and I played random online once.
Againt a Ike. And I owned him so bad, it made me actually feel bad.
And with Samus I losted after that match.
Well, I lost the SD on a stage that was perfect for Ike which means that I am probely better too with samus as he. (Besides, he got a stock from me in a very unfair way, that why it was a SD, but never mind)
Also I noticed a another thing:
Everyone thats fights me one on one online always runs away from me if I play olimar.
Even that Ike.
Its really weird to see Ike only shield and roll for like 20 - 30 secs.
Punishment I gave him was hard for that, but still... in the entire match he only hitted me 1- 3 times.
Maybe Olimar is easier to play..
Or is Olimar that 'high'?

I'm still sticking with samus, afterall, I know that I need to learn how to use her stuff better.
But I have the feeling that if I take Olimar against a player thats about my skill level, I would probely win.
Thats whats worries me.

 

[M3zm3r1z3]

olimar is high tier if that's what you're asking

ike you can get away with grabbing alot since his attacks are slow, also remember his forward B is gimped by throwing pikmen on him so if you knock him off the ledge remember to throw a pikmen on him

his best KO move his up smash

 

[Greward]

i main olimar and im very angry because they made him a very easy charachter to play

i dont think hes one of the best chars becaus of his recovery but anyways he continues being a good char, and one of the easiest to master

 

[Luxferre]

i main olimar and im very angry because they made him a very easy charachter to play

i dont think hes one of the best chars becaus of his recovery but anyways he continues being a good char, and one of the easiest to master

Yeah that whats I meant.
I think also thats kinda unfair.
It doesn`t make fun if you play an equal enemy and win because of that.

 

[Puddin]

I'm having trouble understanding this entire topic... Every character is technically "easy" to use, but there is a difference between using them and being good with them.

 

[asob4]

olimar actually has a high learning curve to be good with him, as you have to micro manage as much as snake does.

olimar is easily high tier and has great match ups all around

 

[viparagon]

imo oli is right up there with marth falco and GaW until he's of the stage...


**** his recovery!

 

[asob4]

there's techs to get around the recovery issues >_>

 

[shrinkray21]

isn't brawl just easy to learn? Olly is easily in the top 10 - he's been placed at the top 5...but seriously - isn't there a bunch of characters that you can spam and win with...isn't that what wifi is for

 

[gorgon.]

i main olimar and im very angry because they made him a very easy charachter to play

i dont think hes one of the best chars becaus of his recovery but anyways he continues being a good char, and one of the easiest to master

Uh, Olimar isn't easy to master. What gives you that impression? No character is easy to "master."He is easy to pick up and play if you're not stupid, but every character is hard to "master." Barely anyone "masters" a character anyway.

Don't expect to win every match by Pikmin Toss spamming. Honestly, the intelligence of some people...

 

[shanus]

heh gorgon, I'm sorry, but the level of technical skill in this game is so low, it is very easy to pick up and learn a character as shrink said. Sure he might be more complicated than some of the others, but none of these characters have a tremendously steep learning curve. I dont know if you were around for the melee days or not, but this game has nothing in terms of a learning curve as compared to melee.

 

[gorgon.]

heh gorgon, I'm sorry, but the level of technical skill in this game is so low, it is very easy to pick up and learn a character as shrink said. Sure he might be more complicated than some of the others, but none of these characters have a tremendously steep learning curve. I dont know if you were around for the melee days or not, but this game has nothing in terms of a learning curve as compared to melee.

Did you even read what I said?

Obviously Brawl is much more shallow than Melee. Of course I was around for Melee, I'm no Brawl fanboy. I realize Brawl sucks compared to Melee in terms of competitiveness and depth, but even so, it isn't easy to master a character.

I said that it was hard to MASTER a character, I never said it was hard to LEARN one.

 

[Greward]

Uh, Olimar isn't easy to master. What gives you that impression? No character is easy to "master."He is easy to pick up and play if you're not stupid, but every character is hard to "master." Barely anyone "masters" a character anyway.

Don't expect to win every match by Pikmin Toss spamming. Honestly, the intelligence of some people...

well, im playing an olimar ditto. my opponent is a noob that only spam pikmin toss, Fsmash and grab. and when i have 90% he moves around by dashing Usmash. and i cant beat him. these thinks make me angry, and i see that with this strategy can beat everybody. and then i think "why im training with a charachter that every noob can win with?" really i wanted to use olimar because i love pikmin games, but this isnt the olimar that i hope, for me, this isnt the olimar of the pikmin games, its another one

well, master no, but i refeered that you can win with no practice with him, and no only newbies

 

[shrinkray21]

heh gorgon, I'm sorry, but the level of technical skill in this game is so low, it is very easy to pick up and learn a character as shrink said. Sure he might be more complicated than some of the others, but none of these characters have a tremendously steep learning curve. I dont know if you were around for the melee days or not, but this game has nothing in terms of a learning curve as compared to melee.

100% correct

 

[aflyinglamppost]

i love his up b attack, and his up smash is great

 

[Pikminx45]

well, im playing an olimar ditto. my opponent is a noob that only spam pikmin toss, Fsmash and grab. and when i have 90% he moves around by dashing Usmash. and i cant beat him. these thinks make me angry, and i see that with this strategy can beat everybody. and then i think "why im training with a charachter that every noob can win with?" really i wanted to use olimar because i love pikmin games, but this isnt the olimar that i hope, for me, this isnt the olimar of the pikmin games, its another one

well, master no, but i refeered that you can win with no practice with him, and no only newbies

I don't really think that everyone can win with Olimar. If you don't realize how to exploit Olimar's major weakness then yes, abn Olimar using noob who spams has a god chance of wining/ almost winning. Olimar has 2 major weakness's that kill his chance at Top teir, He's relativley light and he can be gimped easily. Sometimes gimping him might be tough if you don't know when to move to avoid his up-b edge spike. Olmar is given a bit too much credit with his range, anyone with a sword can easily kill most of the Pikmin. Unless ofcoarse they Whistle armor and counter attck every move. If vyou know the range of his F-smash, you can usually side step and counter attcack. Even Characters like Luigi stand a chance against Olimar. Or if the opponent just spams let them spam, Just run away like a total n00b until their attacks do almost no damage...

I don't think Olimar is super easy to learn how to play, He has a few techs that take a bit to learn, no n00b can pick him up and be amazingly good like Shrink, or Goat.

 

[geekd]

Olimar is a god amongst amateurs. His ground and air game is solid, his range is delightful, great specials, and his grab is the ****. So if you are playing your little brother, no, you need very little experience with olimar to ****. In the face of serious competition, however, I have found it to be extremely difficult to keep up with players who know how to exploit his weaknesses. Pikminx45 explained why perfectly--he is light and easily gimped. Even in the face of all his many virtues, his recovery is absolutely abysmal. Go ahead and disagree (obviously there are techniques to help ease this problem), but the evidence is that olimar rarely places in major tournament. Feel free to main olimar, but be warned: It will not be a cake-walk

 

[nigioh]

im no pro but if its easier to learn a char?

how would that effect competitive play?
in the sense does that make for better play?

 

[shrinkray21]

I don't think Olimar is super easy to learn how to play, He has a few techs that take a bit to learn, no n00b can pick him up and be amazingly good like Shrink, or Goat.

aww...i'm blushing :D

 

[Rocann]

that's so cute :-p

 

[geekd]

im no pro but if its easier to learn a char?

how would that effect competitive play?
in the sense does that make for better play?

I think so. there is nothing like a lousy gimp to begin the match followed by a come-back to win. Im just saying that if you are playing people who don't exploit olimars glaring weakness then you will tear them apart. Against compulsiive edgehoggers the game becomes much more difficult

 

[asob4]

there's ways to overcome his recovery problem.

also, i was playing a snake. i got gimped at like 30% due to no ledge @ frigate then i got killed
i'm down 1-3
up smash w/ purple for death
i'm down 1-2
**** his shiiit. he couldn't do a thing. combo'd him to hell. didn't get touched
tied 1-1
start a combo and he goes off stage, messes up recovery and the moving platform catches his c4 so he can't jump. i win :D
i felt bad though cause it could have been so much more epic

 

[BlackWaltzX]

I think a character that is good at 'controlling the stage' and losing because of the stage moving is pretty 'epic' myself Skank.
All characters are easy to learn except some game play. I think Melee is easier to play and takes less skill at times, but that's just me. (Unless you play snake, then brawl is -much- easier)

 

[asob4]

i much would have preferred a spike with a white though hahahaha

 

[BlackWaltzX]

Or an upsmash with a white. :3

 

[asob4]

any death resulting from an attack by a white is epic in my book

 

[DanGR]

It's easy to be good with any character. That's why I main azen. I just want/like to use Olimar above any other character b/c of the very steep learning curve he has. It's a change from characters like... say Snake? Hard to learn? Bull. Can you say easy to use effectively and easy to beat people with? It hurts me to see how easily some of the characters in this game are to use and win with. Olimar has all the different pikmin, which presents a task in itself. It's something to grow into and learn to master whereas with Snake, all you have to do is be able to time the grenades, space ftilt and uptilt effectively for kills, learn to DAC, and control the stage with mines and crud. Melee has a much steeper learning curve than any of the three smashes imo.

 

[Master Knight DH]

It's easy to be good with any character. That's why I main azen. I just want/like to use Olimar above any other character b/c of the very steep learning curve he has. It's a change from characters like... say Snake? Hard to learn? Bull. Can you say easy to use effectively and easy to beat people with? It hurts me to see how easily some of the characters in this game are to use and win with. Olimar has all the different pikmin, which presents a task in itself. It's something to grow into and learn to master whereas with Snake, all you have to do is be able to time the grenades, space ftilt and uptilt effectively for kills, learn to DAC, and control the stage with mines and crud. Melee has a much steeper learning curve than any of the three smashes imo.

Heh. Good post.

I'll be glad to destroy Snake. DAC sounds like it's a glitch worth beating down too. Though with his telegraphing moves, I'm far more concerned about the Fire Emblem characters and the Kirby antagonists.

Let's keep some yellow Pikmin around to manage more constant outprioritizing.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Olimar is good except he's easily killed. Lightweight and easily gimped is very bad.

He's difficult to play against until you learn how to space properly against him, I'll say that. After that, it's all about keeping control over him in the air, and then of course getting him off stage where you can attempt to spike him, or ledgehog him, or set him up into a kill move since he's so lightweight.

BUT, he seems to be a solid DDD counter, which is good news for him.

 

[Nitrix]

Olimar isn't that powerful. Edgeguard and the poor little guy dies

 

[Master Knight DH]

Yeah. Of course, he has to be knocked off stage first.

I find Dedede and Ike to be problematic for Olimar, as both of them can kill him quickly and just plain refuse to die themselves. And they have good melee attack range. Never live anywhere above Ike, you'll just get nailed with an Up Smash. However, he doesn't have any projectiles. Just that dash attack for if you manage to space yourself, but I'm sure you can always counter that by jumping over that and quickly attacking him before he can get an Up Smash in.

As for Dedede, maybe helicopter attacks could work to keep him on his toes at least. (As in jump then forward air him.) I have to check where his melee range applies though.

 

[DanGR]

Just camp and throw pikmin against both of them. They don't have very many good approaching options that can't be sg-ed and comboed into. Spike kills are great against DDD and repeated tether edgehogging is sick against Ike. (upb>press back>upb>up very quickly to renew your invincibility frames)

 

[Master Knight DH]

Generally, I don't like the Pikmin Throw move. But I do agree that despite not being my general style, moving a good distance away is a good idea. Ideally, I would want to set those two up for enough Down Smashes, which conveniently have no vertical knockback (think the Star Rod item's method of knockback), so each time I succeed, the opponents' need for recovery ends up maximized (assuming they haven't died first; if they have, that's obviously better) and I probably bought myself a precious extra second to think up my next move/strategy, clear my mind, set up, whatever. Simply put, if they won't die, I can at least make sure they make less out of surviving by taking away their control of the match.

 

[Onxy]

Throwing Pikmin sucks in lag.

 

[Ruru]

He's good, but to a smart player who knows how to fight him, he is extremely gimped.

 

[geekd]

Originally Posted by DanGR
It's easy to be good with any character. That's why I main azen. I just want/like to use Olimar above any other character b/c of the very steep learning curve he has. It's a change from characters like... say Snake? Hard to learn? Bull. Can you say easy to use effectively and easy to beat people with? It hurts me to see how easily some of the characters in this game are to use and win with. Olimar has all the different pikmin, which presents a task in itself. It's something to grow into and learn to master whereas with Snake, all you have to do is be able to time the grenades, space ftilt and uptilt effectively for kills, learn to DAC, and control the stage with mines and crud. Melee has a much steeper learning curve than any of the three smashes imo.

I’m a melee veteran and I don't understand why people keep saying that brawl is easy to learn by comparison. Brawl hasn't been out long. How long did it take for wavedashing to develop? Every character is easy to use now because we all suck. We all play each character more or less just as sakuri intended. The metagame is premature. This will change though. The relative difference between amateurs and pros is currently thin--although it is grows every day. Give brawl some time to mature. As we constantly push to make our characters faster and more precise, the technical aspects of the game will emerge. This is where the learning curve steepens; this is where brawl will get really fun.

Is it really fair to compare the learning curve of melee to brawl, when we’re still learning new things about brawl everyday?

 

[DanGR]

geekd-I guess not. It's frustrating with all the random crap that's in this game though like all the cgs and grab releases and crud. All of those things make it easier for people to pick up a character and not suck with them.
-shieldgrabbing is easier to do in brawl-would you agree?
-Brawl is more unbalanced than melee was when it first came out.
-brawl rewards playing defensively more so than offensively. (playing offensively requires more skill and control of your character than playing defensively does for the most part)
-brawl is about making mistakes and capitalizing whereas melee is about who gets the first hit.(more skillful)
-It's more important to space and be patient in melee, whereas in brawl you can just jump into the fray and you'll have a pretty good chance to come out on top.(takes less skill)

My point is that these things make it harder to widen the skill gap between good and average players. My first tourney, I was playing some casuals and I randomly used Rob v ZSS. I won the first match we had. I had used him about 3 times prior to the fight. This^ is what I'm talking about. I guess we can just wait, as you said, and something as big as wavedashing might come out revolutionize brawl and separate men from boys.

 

[Zori]

How is this helping us get better with olimar?

 

[Rocann]

It's not, but it's not as if had it not gone off-topic, all of these posts would've been about Olimar; they just wouldn't exist. So it's not actually stopping Oli discussion here or anywhere, it's cool.

 

[Zori]

It's not, but it's not as if had it not gone off-topic, all of these posts would've been about Olimar; they just wouldn't exist. So it's not actually stopping Oli discussion here or anywhere, it's cool.

I guess your right X).