olimar matchup stage counterpicks: anything you want to fill in not already filled on

[DtJ Hilt]

I remember back in january I saw fino go against Lain in tournament. Fino lost game one, then CP'd Lain, an Ice Climbers main, to Norfair. Lain, in response, switched from his main to his secondary, DeDeDe. Why did he switch? Was it because Norfair is a bad stage for ICs? No, it was because Norfair was a HORRIBLE stage for ICs, to the point in where he would resort to using a secondary character, who not only has a TERRIBLE matchup against Olimar, but isn't even that good on norfair to begin with.

Norfair cripples the Ice Climbers. Rainbow Cruise does not cripple Olimar. It's a really bad stage for him. There's no way I'd say it's average, or above average, or "good" for him. But it's not completely horrible. You're going to want to ban it against quite a few characters. But for at least half of the cast, if they take you there merely thinking "This is a bad stage for Olimar, right??", you don't have too much to worry about.

but yeah, as i said, RC isn't really my stage ^.^; so my arguments on it are probably poorly worded or most likely incorrect haha. I'll leave the RC argument to fino from now on lol... I'd much rather be on japes than Rainbow Cruise anyways :x

I kinda wish summit was legal, just so people could see just how bad a stage CAN be for Olimar
but that's beyond the point

 

[Fino]

But defending RC is Fino's job haha.

I'll refresh my thoughts on RC sometime soon, since people still don't understand how amazing it is.

Being a ROB main, I wouldn't hesitate bringing an Olimar here.

RC.... Against a ROB main?!?

$80 MM?


~Fino

 

[Sky Pirate]

I have this theory that every Oli main loves one of the three "bad" Oli stages (Japes, Frigate, RC).
Certainly seems that way with all of those disagreements there.

 

[Fino]

I have this theory that every Oli main loves one of the three "bad" Oli stages (Japes, Frigate, RC).
Certainly seems that way with all of those disagreements there.

Or... Olimar is good on just about every stage.... and is un-counter-pick-able? IMO, once you learn how to play a stage it isn't that bad (or bad at all). Some stages just have an easier learning curve like FD and BF, hence the reason they're neutral.


~Fino

 

[Plasma Pikmin]

Personally, I like the 3 "bad" Olimar stages. I've been doing well on Japes ever since Hilt mentioned how to play the "gay" way on the right side. After seeing some Olimars play on RC, I've been doing pretty well, I love the walk off sections the most <3. Frigate, I always liked, because of more Yellows, and who doesn't like Yellows. The only stage that bothers me is Norfair. I have no idea how to play on that stage. I see it more of an aerial person stage, and Olimar is really not aerial at all. = /

 

[Noa.]

Strangely enough, yesterday I did better against an Mk on rainbow cruise than on Battlefield. And Japes isn't a bad stage at all. Just don't fall in the water and you'll be fine. Apart from the missing ledge, there's nothing inherently bad about Frigate.

 

[chubb-o-wub]

If it is't banned, you should try bringing people into Spear Pillar. Our UpB has enough range to go completely through the stage and hit people who don't jump, the lower level makes it easy for you to latch Pikmin, and you spam Usmash to rack damage like Olimar's Mansion. Only, you can do it anytime :D

 

[Llumys]

Olimar doesn't have any bad stages, he only has less epic ones.

 

[Dyyne]

I've never seen Spear Pillar legal, and I doubt it ever will be lol But, yes, any stage with a ceiling like that is generally good for oli.

 

[Llumys]

I've never heard of an actual non-scrub tournament that has Spear Pillar legal, so I think any discussion on it would be rather pointless.

 

[Fino]

If it is't banned, you should try bringing people into Spear Pillar. Our UpB has enough range to go completely through the stage and hit people who don't jump, the lower level makes it easy for you to latch Pikmin, and you spam Usmash to rack damage like Olimar's Mansion. Only, you can do it anytime :D

Spear pillar will never be legal (unless you have the stage hack for it). You should also note that our up-air goes through the middle part... not just the tether.


~Fino

 

[TEECO]

TEECO, you being a ROB main, I wouldn't hesitate taking you to Rainbow Cruise. MM $1 at Gigs best 2/3 on rainbow cruise. It's not that bad for Olimar. Or at least me.

Lol, that was unexpected from you draconoa.

Prepare to get gimped.

I'm just wondering... why?

I've heard this several times, but to me it doesn't at all seem like a legitimate reason for the stage to be "horrible". Personally, the lack of Olimar having an effective aerial game when compared to most other characters (ROB included), is what makes the stage at all bad for olimar. The only section I can really think of where Olimar's recovery would get ****ed over, to the point in where you'd want to stay the hell away at all costs, is the pendulum phase, the second phase on the right side, away from the walkoffs, where it's easy to get knocked off (however there's often platforms below to SAVE you, if you're careful), and the section right before the pendulum phase. For all other parts, if you're smart, the stage doesn't COMPLETELY ruin olimar. Up Air ***** on the stage. camping against certain characters is more effective, due to their approach options to get around the camp being less effective. It's easy to run from platform to platform and section to section. The top of the stage has walk offs that are good because gimping is pretty much impossible.

Granted, it would be a HORRIBLE choice to fight rob on, and I would definitely ban it in that matchup. So on that point, I agree with you.

Olimar's biggest flaw is his recovery. RC is top tier in fcking recoveries up, ESP on the pendulum. Aside from having a horrible recovery, he is also a light character so he can get screwed on the parts of the stage where he doesn't have to worry about getting gimped.

 

[Fino]

Olimar's biggest flaw is his recovery. RC is top tier in fcking recoveries up, ESP on the pendulum. Aside from having a horrible recovery, he is also a light character so he can get screwed on the parts of the stage where he doesn't have to worry about getting gimped.

L

O

L

!

By the way, the offer for an $80 mm is still up, but for a limited time only I will do a side MM of $20 that I two stock you there.

I marked that sentence in red, because only scrubs think that olimar's biggest weakness if his recovery. His biggest problem is priority. L2P.


~Fino

 

[TEECO]

I didn't claim I can beat any Olimar on RC so stop acting like you have to defend yourself.
I stated nothing but truth. You can help priority problem but you can't help the fact that pressing UpB while someone is on the ledge will not do anything for you.

Grow up... stop getting so butthurt.

~teeco

 

[Paranormalsin]

I didn't claim I can beat any Olimar on RC so stop acting like you have to defend yourself.
I stated nothing but truth. You can help priority problem but you can't help the fact that pressing UpB while someone is on the ledge will not do anything for you.

Grow up... stop getting so butthurt.

~teeco

assuming fino is "butthurt" is by far from what you can correctly assume what fino is.

anyway, his recovery is not that bad in terms of how it works. besides, half the time when olimar gets thrown off the stage, in all honesty, hes not coming back. RC is nothing but a another game of cat and mouse and if youre dumb/bad enough to become the mouse there, then its youre fault for not banning it in the first place. to take an olimar there, SOLELY based on the idea that youre going to GIMP him all three lives is a dumb *** move to make to begin with. at least be smart about your CP, if an oli didnt ban RC, he OBVIOUSLY knows the map well enough to not let a gimp come off more than once.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Fino, stop trolling.

Teeco, it just seems to me like you've not played an olimar that knows the stage well. Saying that Rainbow Cruise, without a doubt, in all situations, completely ruins Olimar, would be nothing but incorrect. Keep in mind that, as I said earlier, you main a character that I would, in a heartbeat, ban RC against. Same goes for Meta Knight. And Kirby. And probably wario. But it's not so bad that it would become our default ban. Or even deserve that merit.

Forget it lol. I'm too tired to write a well written argument right now @_@
I don't even remember why we're discussing this

 

[Noa.]

Teeco, Rainbow Cruise isn't that bad of a stage for Olimar. Sure it's easier to get gimped but only at the pendulum part. The ship has ledges. The second part has so many platforms and even magic carpets to help you not die. Pendulum is stupid, but if I rest on the donut blocks over it and jump over to the next platform as soon as it appears I'm good. Certainly a bad stage for some matchups, but a horrible stage? I don't think so.

 

[Dabuz]

against ROB id rather ban japes and take my chances on RC

 

[DtJ Hilt]

against ROB id rather ban japes and take my chances on RC

I can see that. I haven't played many robs on japes, so I wouldn't know what I would be worried about on it, to be honest. But I could see it being really bad against ROB there for Olimar.

 

[Fino]

Fino, stop trolling.

Kid needs to pay-up or shut-up if he gunna talk like that ;D
Rob's biggest weakspot is right below himself, and olimar can pressure rob from below on about 70% of that stage. Most of it is done for him. Rising on the left side for sure, but at the top, if you get over to the right part of the top stage (after the pendulum part) before rob does, you can camp the little corner (to the right of the checkered block) and from there you can just keep Rob on the outs. Slanted stage + lots of platforms makes it retardedly hard for rob to get grounded again. What can he do? Mind game you into running into a nair maybe. Otherwise you're going to keep racking damage with uair and usmash. The you get back down to the boat, which you have control of being under rob and keeping him above you if, right before you go down, you're on the hidden bottom platform.

This is only 1 weakness of Rob that can be utterly exploited... I won't mention how olimar can kill rob in the mid 60's due to the blast zones of RC or that it's almost impossible to gimp him there.


~Fino

 

[Llumys]

Fino, stop trolling.

 

[DanGR]

Fino, I really wanna see some matches of you versus a good opponent on RC- not some idiot that can't DI and/or tech jump that wall on the boat.

I'm with Hilt when it comes to RC, but a little more on the side that it's a universally bad stage for Olimar, and that it's still a terrible counterpick altogether. It's not any worse for Oli than your opponent if you're fighting say... a Link player, but it's still a bad choice. You're leaving that chance that you may get the low percent gimp. Really, against any character that matters, it's gonna be harder for you than them to take advantage of the stage.

Also, I agree with Hilt that you shouldn't just automatically ban RC. Most characters have other stages they'd rather take you to. Against Falco, I'd definitely ban Japes instead.

 

[Llumys]

I never ban any stages online, in local tournaments or in friendlies. I don't care about placement, so I just let my opponent counterpick anything so I get practice, but I still think Rainbow Cruise isn't a good Olimar stage. I'd like to see Fino play a good Meta Knight on the boat.

 

[Paranormalsin]

I'd like to see Fino play a good Meta Knight on the boat.

i wouldnt watch it unless it was a MM, cause then atleast the mk would be trying.

 

[Fino]

Fino, I really wanna see some matches of you versus a good opponent on RC- not some idiot that can't DI and/or tech jump that wall on the boat.

I'm with Hilt when it comes to RC, but a little more on the side that it's a universally bad stage for Olimar, and that it's still a terrible counterpick altogether. It's not any worse for Oli than your opponent if you're fighting say... a Link player, but it's still a bad choice. You're leaving that chance that you may get the low percent gimp. Really, against any character that matters, it's gonna be harder for you than them to take advantage of the stage.

Also, I agree with Hilt that you shouldn't just automatically ban RC. Most characters have other stages they'd rather take you to. Against Falco, I'd definitely ban Japes instead.

I like how just because you beat someone in a vid that automatically makes them "not good" other than the fact that the peach main was jmo (one of the best peach mains on AiB) and the mk was clouderz (back when he was rocking ****). Also, keep in mind who you're dissing, the negrolimar was Hilt.

Maybe everyone I just play is bad? I think that's kind of a condescending comment.


~Fino

EDIT: for the sake of point out dangr is an idiot (like normally) you know you can't wall tech until 60% And also you are aware how small the frame on a wall tech is in brawl right? Also, his fsmash lock against a wall can cause an air trip, meaning it's like a laser lock, which is what happened in my vid a couple times

 

[DanGR]

I like how just because you beat someone in a vid that automatically makes them "not good" other than the fact that the peach main was jmo (one of the best peach mains on AiB) and the mk was clouderz (back when he was rocking ****). Also, keep in mind who you're dissing, the negrolimar was Hilt.

Maybe everyone I just play is bad? I think that's kind of a condescending comment.

If those matches are on Wifi, I can totally understand. I'm pretty abysmal on Wifi myself. Other than that excuse, there aren't any. No one gives a crap about how good they are. If they're getting locked on the wall with fsmash more than a couple times at any percent, they need to DI better or stop setting themself up for it. That's a fact.

When I said "not some idiot that can't DI and/or tech jump that wall on the boat", I meant "not some idiot that also can't DI and/or tech jump that wall on the boat." My bad. And we all know that technical skill is unrelated to intelligence. Though the more you have, the more it is implied you're fairly educated.

Hilt is a smart, respectable guy. I'm not dissing him at all. What I will say, though, is that if he was getting fsmash locked, he needs to work on his DI.

EDIT: for the sake of point out dangr is an idiot (like normally) you know you can't wall tech until 60% And also you are aware how small the frame on a wall tech is in brawl right? Also, his fsmash lock against a wall can cause an air trip, meaning it's like a laser lock, which is what happened in my vid a couple times

I clearly said "DI and/or tech jump". The first will get you out at low percents if the Olimar player isn't perfectly spaced away from the wall (and if you're spaced that well, the other player should recognize it). The latter will get you out later.

It's not hard to tech jump, or even tech, really. Not long ago, in 15 minute brawl with about 10 seconds left, I cypher recovered at 400-somethin% from out of view and tech jumped off the wall to avoid the cpus. I think you've got 5 frames to tech in Brawl. You can ask anyone I play with and they'll tell you I do it every time I'm comboed against a wall with something like Olimar's fsmash. With some practice, it's not difficult. It's harder than in Melee, but it's not hard by any means.

I saw the "air trip" you talked about. You lock a Metaknight player for 3 fsmashes after he jumps down there...after he was already down there. That's the kinda thing I'm talking about when I say that some of your opponents aren't very smart. I mean no offense. There's just no other way to put it.

 

[TEECO]

Fino, stop trolling.

Teeco, it just seems to me like you've not played an olimar that knows the stage well. Saying that Rainbow Cruise, without a doubt, in all situations, completely ruins Olimar, would be nothing but incorrect. Keep in mind that, as I said earlier, you main a character that I would, in a heartbeat, ban RC against. Same goes for Meta Knight. And Kirby. And probably wario. But it's not so bad that it would become our default ban. Or even deserve that merit.

Forget it lol. I'm too tired to write a well written argument right now @_@
I don't even remember why we're discussing this

Hilt, I have never played an olimar IRL I would consider good. Every olimar I've faught has been newly picked up, or is a secondary or something like that. I think it's a stage Olimar should avoid, but obviously some people disagree...

Teeco, Rainbow Cruise isn't that bad of a stage for Olimar. Sure it's easier to get gimped but only at the pendulum part. The ship has ledges. The second part has so many platforms and even magic carpets to help you not die. Pendulum is stupid, but if I rest on the donut blocks over it and jump over to the next platform as soon as it appears I'm good. Certainly a bad stage for some matchups, but a horrible stage? I don't think so.

Alright man, I'm not trying to change your opinon. If you feel comfortable on it, CP it.

Kid needs to pay-up or shut-up if he gunna talk like that ;D
Rob's biggest weakspot is right below himself, and olimar can pressure rob from below on about 70% of that stage. Most of it is done for him. Rising on the left side for sure, but at the top, if you get over to the right part of the top stage (after the pendulum part) before rob does, you can camp the little corner (to the right of the checkered block) and from there you can just keep Rob on the outs. Slanted stage + lots of platforms makes it retardedly hard for rob to get grounded again. What can he do? Mind game you into running into a nair maybe. Otherwise you're going to keep racking damage with uair and usmash. The you get back down to the boat, which you have control of being under rob and keeping him above you if, right before you go down, you're on the hidden bottom platform.

This is only 1 weakness of Rob that can be utterly exploited... I won't mention how olimar can kill rob in the mid 60's due to the blast zones of RC or that it's almost impossible to gimp him there.


~Fino

You have too much pride my friend.

 

[Fino]

You have too much pride my friend.

So is that a yes or a no to the MM?


~Fino

 

[TEECO]

So is that a yes or a no to the MM?


~Fino

It was neither a yes, or a no but I'll tell you now..

Hell no to the MM.


Now if you would be so kind, stop spamming your own boards with attempts to glorify yourself.

 

[Llumys]

Why won't you take the money match?

 

[BlackWaltzX]

Maybe he feels that his ideas are valid, yet he can not back up what he says himself. As in, he needs holy to come down from Canada and play against Fino.
IDK.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Hilt is a smart, respectable guy. I'm not dissing him at all. What I will say, though, is that if he was getting fsmash locked, he needs to work on his DI.

Nah, it's cool. I'm terrible on Wifi
And my DI's not as good as it should be haha.
I don't remember getting fsmash locked though, but I could be wrong.

 

[Llumys]

I don't recall DIing out of an fsmash lock on WiFi being too hard.