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Olimar [possibly cheapest character?]

toktomo

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
56
I finally believe that Olimar is the cheapest character in Brawl. The SSBB developers made him way too good. Also, if you've mastered Olimar, you can beat any character in Brawl. For example, I played my brother last night using Olimar (first time using him), and I annihilated Toon Link. However, my brother is no joke, and he has beat me 80% to 90% of the time. But he couldn't even hit Olimar because I kept on dodging is moves and throwing the pikmin. Why is Olimar that good? I wouldn't say that I'm a great Brawl player, but anyone could pick Olimar and own other players, right? So is it fair to say that he is the cheapest character in the game?
 

kevo2488

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
7
Location
VA
That seems a bit harsh. There are TONS of people that are horrible with Olimar. I happen to love him, but I'm not godly with him.
 

abit_rusty

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 7, 2006
Messages
1,544
Location
East Lansing, MI
NNID
Rontuaru
3DS FC
2895-8974-0662
The word "cheap" is thrown around too often these days...

[Throw offstage -> any attack -> edgehog] > [Olimar]
 

scalpel

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
341
Location
Hawaii
Switch FC
SW-1322-7073-9341
That is true. I believe Olimar is very capable of beating any character match up. There is not a single character who is his "ultimate counter". Olimar really has no character counter, if played to his full potential. The only universal counter to Olimar is by getting him off of the stage, and even that is not character-specific, since any character can launch Olimar off. Once Olimar is no longer on the stage, this is where Olimar's weaknesses can be exploited, via edge-hogging. It's this universal counter that balances Olimar out with all of the other characters. Amazing on the stage, pathetic off of it. I'm willing to bet that 70-80% of all Olimar deaths are due to failures in tethering.

Olimar isn't cheap. He has no character-specific counter, but he does have a universal weakness.
 

Kirby-oh

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
87
Trust me, TL is cheap. And Sonic, and Lucario... Your brother couldn't work out proper countering strategies. It happens.
 

Demenise

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
498
Olimar is DEFINITELY not "cheap." The good parts about him are that he can rack up damage quickly, he's got some great range and strong attacks, and that the pikmin have different strengths and weaknesses, making them all like six different characters. However, he's light, jugglable, useless without pikmin (I know that they're hard to kill, but it can be done,) and useless off-stage. He's also EXTREMELY hard to learn; possibly one of the hardest characters in the game.

Olimar isn't cheap; he's just deadly in the right hands and crappy in others.
 

SKEET SHADY

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
396
Location
Lansing, MI
That is true. I believe Olimar is very capable of beating any character match up. There is not a single character who is his "ultimate counter". Olimar really has no character counter, if played to his full potential. The only universal counter to Olimar is by getting him off of the stage, and even that is not character-specific, since any character can launch Olimar off. Once Olimar is no longer on the stage, this is where Olimar's weaknesses can be exploited, via edge-hogging. It's this universal counter that balances Olimar out with all of the other characters. Amazing on the stage, pathetic off of it. I'm willing to bet that 70-80% of all Olimar deaths are due to failures in tethering.

Olimar isn't cheap. He has no character-specific counter, but he does have a universal weakness.
go play vidjo and you will agree with me that metaknight is an olimar counter. mayyyyyyyyybe wario
 

Staco

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
2,173
Location
Germany
I tihnk metaknights speed blade will kill olimar
olimars pikmins need only one small hit with his blade, and metaknight makes too much hits
and then metaknight can combo the olimar, thet oli cant get new pikmin
and meta has good air game, so he can hold oli upwards

metaknight has one of the best edgeguard, so bye bye olimar
 

Slashed

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 16, 2007
Messages
45
Location
Franklin Square, NY
Most Meta Knights get too distracted with the Pikmin to actually attack you properly. I actually don't find Meta Knight match-ups with Olimar that hard. >_> The only problem with Olimar, as someone said, is his off-stage recovery, but there's a tiny fix to that, which I *think* Echo has in his guide.

Pikmin Order off the stage until you get a Purple Pikmin in front, and Pikmin Throw it at your opponent on the edge, knocking them off, so you can tether. And you can also use the slight vertical and horizontal boost from his Up+B to get back on if you're close enough.
 

LavisFiend

Smash Lord
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
1,713
Location
Alexandria, Louisiana
The word "cheap" bugs me because it is a silly little scapegoat to try and justify a loss against a character.

Yes, Olimar has a lot of pros, but he does have cons, and he is NOT invincible.

There will always be good Olimar players, and BAD Olimar players. Then of course, there is the gray area...

I fail to see how a great character is cheap because the player who fights him happens to suck at adjusting to the different playstyle.

Blame the player, not the character.
 

Marilink

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 10, 2002
Messages
278
Location
Ann Arbor, MI / Mankato, MN
Pikmin Order off the stage until you get a Purple Pikmin in front, and Pikmin Throw it at your opponent on the edge, knocking them off, so you can tether. And you can also use the slight vertical and horizontal boost from his Up+B to get back on if you're close enough.
You don't always need to Pikmin order, though. Especially if you have a varied line--you can just fair a few times to get the purple in front. Fairing three times is a lot faster than Pikmin Ordering three times, believe me.
 

jonkil

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
108
Location
MESA TOWN!
@toktomo you brother probably didn't like the feeling of having pikmin hupping him so he just stood there attacking the pikmin to get them off him instead of fighting you. what he should have done is just got up in your face and knocked you off the stage and edge hogged the ledge. i know it happened to me too and i thought he was OP but then on just attacking olimar i found that he is a chump when your in his face and not attacking his pikmin.
 

Gill

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
229
Location
New York
You CAN be cheap with Olimar but that doesn't make Olimar alone cheap. He's light and extremely easy to edgehog. He's fine.
 

Fino

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
3,262
Location
nxt to Dphat wit all dem azn biches
I actually have to second wario being an olimar counter.
Now, I've never played as wario, so I couldn't tell you button specifics, but the move where he shoves his elbow out (like in the old wario games) take priority on most, if not all olimar's attacks (and kills the pikmin used in the process as well). Now, can't say I've played a good Wario, but my brother played as him a couple times when I was just starting to make pikmin my main, and I got demolished. Again though, he's just another one of those characters who you have to change your regular strategy on.

~Fino
 

Rapid_Assassin

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
4,163
Location
RI
? I wouldn't say that I'm a great Brawl player, but anyone could pick Olimar and own other players, right? So is it fair to say that he is the cheapest character in the game?
Money match? :lick:

Seriously, I'd like to see someone picking up Olimar for the first time ever beat me.
 

Wazzle

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 26, 2007
Messages
18
Location
DC
NNID
wazzle
Olimar is def not cheap. Especially the fact that your brother was playing as TL surprises me. Since you were just throwing alot of pikmin, your brother should have been able to just a-combo them all to death. Happens to me every time agains TL. I will admit that he is very good and could be great against all characters, but his only recovery being tether is at least enough to keep him off cheap list. Emphasis on at least.

Also, about the whole "go to purpiks and throw em as you fall" remedy to the tether recovery, that would NOT be effective. Unless you had purpiks 1st or 2nd in order, you'd have no chance. They don't fly far, you would be falling as you re-ordered piks, you would still need to up-b, and you would be down 1 pikmin for the chain. As far as I can tell, you just gotta take the death like a man and be careful on the stage.
 

Wilde

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
20
just because you beat your brother doesn't make olimar the cheapest character in the game!

he beats you 80-90%, does that make all the characters he use the "cheapest characters in the game"?
 

CervPurp63

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 15, 2007
Messages
126
Location
Tallahassee, FL
olimar is top tier in online matches. The button lag then breaks the game down into range a nd each character's natural priority. And Olimar wins almost everytime.
 

Adriel

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Messages
338
Just because your brother does not know how to deal with Olimar does not make him cheap.
 

IllidR

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
2,373
Location
"Pikmen" Forever!
No offense, but it just sounds like your brother is just bad. If he's letting the Pikmen get on him at all then he's not playing right, and if he's letting you keep your distance then he's also not playing right. After a few matches he should get accustomed to fighting Olimar and knowing that you must always pressure him.
 

HOHO420

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
152
Location
Port Chester,NY
Olimar is an awesome character, but like people have said already, his recovery sucks. I've been trying to main him, and the only problem I've encountered with him is that he's easy to throw off stages. The character I believe to be cheap is Ike, he's a kill-move machine that can knock you out with 40+ damage. Now thats cheap. Oli is not cheap, he just has good range.
 

Bodknocks

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 14, 2006
Messages
11
Location
Indiana, USA
NNID
austonwithano
There is no such thing as "cheap". Broken, maybe, but I don't think any characters in Brawl have shown to be broken yet either.

Olimar himself probably won't even be top tier, just because of his easily gimped recovery. That said, he's pretty rad, definitely the best camper in the game and his disjointed hit boxes with crazy range are pretty much awesome.
 

enixbelmont

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
5
Olimar is easily top tier IMO. Brawl is more camping oriented, and no one camps better than olimar. His grab alone is by far the best in the game, with incredible range adn speed, and his attacks all have great range. You can them before they grab you 99% of the time and block everything else. He racks up damage incredibly fast(fastest in the game?), has incredible priority, and hes fairly fast. his only weakness is his recovery, but most of the time, you'll barely be hit. And in brawl, most characters arent even knocked far enough to need to use their third jump. Most of the other popular characters(Wolf, Toon Link, Fox, Falco, Pit, Metaknight, and marth unless he tips it and even then its still like 50%) wont be able to KO him by gimping until 75% at least with decent DI. Olimar has decent first and second jumps, too.

Im not the master of brawl or anything, but IMO, they way brawl is setup, the overly defensive characters that can camp well are gonna end up on top this time. Olimar, Snake, etc. Wolf camps really well, too.
 

TrueRedemption

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 26, 2007
Messages
278
The misconception that no one camps better than Olimar is getting old and somewhat annoying. As with discussion of many types, there is a distinct difference between possibility and potential. Pikmin on pape can rack up 100% in a matter of seconds, sure, but that is only against an inactive opponent. Any live opponent can and will attack to remove the pikmin, almost certainly after 1 or 2 hits max. Also since the truly damage capable pikmin being thrown do not stun or knock back in any way, there is little trouble approaching Olimar from across the level. Compared to Pit's arrows, Wolf and Falco's lasers, even Samus/Lucario/Mario/Luigi projectile spam/camping, Olimar is at the disadvantage. I'd even be willing to argue that a fox and an olimar having a projectile off, where neither is inclined to truly approach the other, fox would be able to do as much, possibly more damage than Olimar. Fox is the best comparison to Olimar so far as the projectile aspect of camping ability goes, yet no one is too worried about his camping.

Then the flip side to this argument, for the remaining cast who cannot infact out projectile Olimar. Yes Olimar has considerable range on his attacks, this point is not disputed. However every game has a character with the "most range" so this should come as no surprise. Was Marth the cheapest character in SSBM for his unparalleled range? I would argue the range advantage Marth had previous is greater than the range advantage Olimar has in Brawl, but enough with comparing two different games. If you are unable to move in on an Olimar it is because you are being either repetitive, or simple, both of which are commonly known weaknesses of PLAYERS in fighting games, not characters. I do not feel sorry for the player who cries out IMBA after getting 3 stocked when all they did each time was attempt to dash straight at Olimar and grab him. When your out ranged, you must figure out ways to overcome it, bait an attack and punish with correct dodging, approach in the air and land behind to begin guessing games. Mix up timing, pace, even with the slightly slower control we currently have in brawl, these options certainly do exist.

As for survivability, your slighting off a tragic flaw pretty unfairly. Gimp kills at 75% is considerably lower percent than is possible for any other character currently. Your also not considering following off the ledge and attacking his attempt to recover, because I promise you its possible to gimp Olimar at even lower %s with a connected FAir or whatever off stage. Conversely Olimar won't be able to kill at 75% against an opponent with proper DI, and if an aggressive ledge guard is attempted it is very dangerous, which much higher chance of it being turned around on Olimar than with any other character.

So wheres that leave us? Theres 1/3 of the cast that can out projectile olimar, requiring an approach on his part. Of the remaining 2/3 theres an obvious advantage to press. I suppose it comes down to your definition of camping. Does Olimar have more general range? Sure, but if thats the definition of camping we can go right down the list, not to mention the number of moves with equal range of Olimar. Wolf's FSmash has just as much range, plus he has a better projectile game, Ike's sword is long and huge, Peach bomber is a usable move with great range... I can't agree range is the determining factor of camping ability. The only advantage Olimar has is against the low level players who are unable to see the way the game plays as far as one character approaching another. Is that cheap? Probably to casual players, guess thats their call, but casual players shouldn't be getting upset about it, they are just playing for fun anyway, why care if you lose?

Closing thoughts, just on calling anything cheap or unfair in general, heres a great bit of insight for you: http://sirlin.net/Features/feature_PlayToWinPart1.htm



-True
 

TheKingofDes

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
97
Location
Trapped in The Closet
I finally believe that Olimar is the cheapest character in Brawl. The SSBB developers made him way too good. Also, if you've mastered Olimar, you can beat any character in Brawl. For example, I played my brother last night using Olimar (first time using him), and I annihilated Toon Link. However, my brother is no joke, and he has beat me 80% to 90% of the time. But he couldn't even hit Olimar because I kept on dodging is moves and throwing the pikmin. Why is Olimar that good? I wouldn't say that I'm a great Brawl player, but anyone could pick Olimar and own other players, right? So is it fair to say that he is the cheapest character in the game?

No such thing as a cheap character
 

hardcore

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
28
Location
Miami, FL
People tend to look at a character's PROS and block out the CONS when judging them in this manner, which would be the only justification for calling Olimar "cheap." As soon as his easily exploitable recovery and light weight are factored in, this is simply not the case.
 

orintemple

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Messages
1,237
Location
Chicago, IL
As people have said he is very easily edgehogged and is among the lightest characters.

He is definitely a pain in the *** to fight but if you keep on him his pikmin won't do anything to you cause you'll be constantly knocking them off. Also, most people are bad with Olimar, he takes a certain type of person to play him. From what I've seen he is one of the few characters that you need to play aggressively against. You can't outcamp the camp beast.

Unless you're ROB.
 
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