On Wireless Controllers

[dumpsterdiver]

Hi there.

I've seen a few posts about this, but i think this is deserving of its own topic. Wireless interference is a common complaint among Smash Vets, but I feel the hatred goes to far. Interference is a great reason to avoid wavebirds and the like, because they use RF signals to transmit data on a single channel. If two streams are on the same channel, interference occurs, so if you're in a room with over 16 wavebirds someone is guaranteed to get interference.

However, the wiimote uses Bluetooth. Bluetooth has a feature called "frequency-hopping spread spectrum." This feature allows a bluetooth device to change channels 1600 times a second, in a pattern known only to the device and the receiver. When a device is synced to say, the Wii, it determines the psuedorandom order that the device will change channels, and prepares to receive it. What's more, it remembers "bad channels" and avoids them (adaptive hopping). If there is any interference it's for a TINY fraction of a second.

Now, before you post something along the lines of "that tiny fraction is all you need to miss a dodge and get hit by Ike's Fsmash on the last life of the finals of a tournament with a $5000 grand prize," consider the following. Each "period" is only 1/1600 of a second. Smash Bros. runs at a full 60 fps, so to "miss" a frame, you would need interference on 27 consecutive periods. Bluetooth can hop between 79 different channels, so you may notice the odds of this happening is EXTREMELY low. What's more, as I mentioned earlier, if a channel is in use, the bluetooth device will try to avoid it, meaning the chance of interference of a wiimote in a tournament setting is EXTREMELY LOW. If the classic controller is your favorite controller, use it without worry.

Just thought I'd clear up some confusion on this matter. If there is anything anyone would like to add or ask, feel free.

TL;DR: RF signals get interference, Bluetooth signals don't.

 

[Holmboy]

I'd like to add that my Wavebird is dah shiz. No lag or anything from mine.

 

[Evazan]

All I know is that after playing with a wired control for a year and tried and wavebird and the amount of lag I experienced was extremely noticeable. I don't know how this will translate over to the wii and blue tooth.

 

[dumpsterdiver]

All I know is that after playing with a wired control for a year and tried and wavebird and the amount of lag I experienced was extremely noticeable. I don't know how this will translate over to the wii and blue tooth.

What I commented on was interference. I don't notice any lag on my Wiimotes, or any wavebird I've used, but the Wavebird will receive interference from other Wavebirds in the room if they are on the same channel, but the wiimote will not suffer this drawback.

 

[espiochamaeleo]

But does anyone really want to use the Wiimote (+ Nunchuk) or Classic controller for tournament play? I assume people would be most comfortable with the GameCube controller. To each his own, I suppose.

 

[worm]

All I know is that after playing with a wired control for a year and tried and wavebird and the amount of lag I experienced was extremely noticeable. I don't know how this will translate over to the wii and blue tooth.

Sorry but there is not "lag" from using a wavebird. It is exactly identical (redundant) to using a wired controller. Well except for the vibration part. I've used both interchangeably for years and have never had any problem with lag from a wavebird.

 

[justc]

Could this interference explain why when I use Diddy's rocket move the rockets are released early? I've been testing in training mode and every so often the rockets are prematurely released (when I'm still holding the button). Maybe it's too many buttons pushed at once? (the special button and direction) I want to use the classic controller but things like this make me not want to use it. Good post dumpsterdiver.

 

[dumpsterdiver]

Could this interference explain why when I use Diddy's rocket move the rockets are released early? I've been testing in training mode and every so often the rockets are prematurely released (when I'm still holding the button). Maybe it's too many buttons pushed at once? (the special button and direction) I want to use the classic controller but things like this make me not want to use it. Good post dumpsterdiver.

That... I don't know. If you're in your own home, you shouldn't be getting interference regardless of what controller you're using. Even if you were do to extenuating circumstances (high usage of wireless bandwidth by other devices, but I really doubt this), you wouldn't get interference on repeated trials, especially without something ELSE happening. I don't think that Diddy's rockets can be held indefinitely, though, are you sure you aren't just holding it until the end? If not, it could be a bad controller, specifically not being sensitive enough. How hard do you push the buttons? If it's too light it could be released. The fact that you've only noticed it with Diddy makes me think it's just your special button being released due to SOMETHING. Try reconfiguring the controller, and temporarily put the special attack button somewhere else and see if you still get this issue.

 

[MrSilver]

Justc is right. While charging something the Wiimotes will sometimes release early. I've seen it happen many times. That said, apart from moves going of early I haven't noticed any lag or problems with the Wii motes.

It's kind of a moot point for me since I prefer the Gamecube controller anyway. Even regardless of any signal problems the other controllers might have.

 

[otter]

It seems like this issue is starting to open up a little bit. a few weeks ago I just saw a bunch of "Only homos use Wiimotes" and very little discussion. If it really is impossible to use them I'll respect that but I hope someone is going to try. I'm not a Melee vet, so I'm not going to force a junk controller on myself when there are better options now.

 

[BlakeOut]

If wavebirds are going to get too much interference we can just use the wired gamecube controllers.

 

[ken12012]

If a tournament has a lot of people, It can take time to sync everyones wiimotes. That's the only reason why I can see wiimotes being banned.

 

[dumpsterdiver]

Justc is right. While charging something the Wiimotes will sometimes release early. I've seen it happen many times. That said, apart from moves going of early I haven't noticed any lag or problems with the Wii motes.

It's kind of a moot point for me since I prefer the Gamecube controller anyway. Even regardless of any signal problems the other controllers might have.

You, too, eh? I've never had this happen to me, and I always use my Classic. The only thing I can think of is that Wiimotes and CCs have a harder spring than a Gamecube controller, or at least any of my GC controllers, which are a bit worn in. A harder spring would make it harder to keep the button held. Or, if you're batteries are low or low quality a button could be released. I'll try to duplicate this right now.

edit: After testing with Diddy Kong for a bit, the only way I could get the barrels to release early was by tapping the special button twice in rapid succession and then trying to hold it. I was able to do this with both CC and GC controller. Without more information I can't test any more, though, I need to know EXACTLY what's happening.

 

[Pyr0]

It can take a lot time to sync everyones wiimotes.

Hit the nail in the head there.

Think abut this:

A tournament with 100 players, 10 Wii systems.

Everyone has to sync their Wii-mote to a different Wii every match (or so) that will add up to around 3,000 syncs (considering single elimination, this is a guesstimate so dont get to literal on me please).

3,000 syncs... lets say it takes half a minute to sync a Wii-mote thats 1,500 minutes!!!

Do you see the problem now?

Wii-mote is fun theres no question in that, but for tournaments, keep it simple, bring your GC controller.

=]

 

[dumpsterdiver]

Hit the nail in the head there.

Think abut this:

A tournament with 100 players, 10 Wii systems.

Everyone has to sync their Wii-mote to a different Wii every match (or so) that will add up to around 3,000 syncs (considering single elimination, this is a guesstimate so dont get to literal on me please).

3,000 syncs... lets say it takes half a minute to sync a Wii-mote thats 1,500 minutes!!!

Do you see the problem now?

Wii-mote is fun theres no question in that, but for tournaments, keep it simple, bring your GC controller.

=]

Ha, ha, oh wow. 100 players... 3000 syncs? A 128 man tourney would take 254 syncs if everyone synced EVERY ROUND THEY PLAYED. Also, that wouldn't be 127 minutes, either, because people can sync simultaneously. 10 Wiis means 20 syncs in 30 seconds, so we're down to a little over 3 minutes. GASP, not 3 whole minutes over the span of several hours.

Next, not everyone will sync. What's more, every wii has to have at least one wiimote synced to it just to start the **** game. I personally wouldn't care who's wiimote I plug my CC into anyway. So if a tournament is willing to provide for the select few who prefer a different style, why not do it?

 

[ThaRoy]

Arithmetic prevails!

 

[shadydentist]

BYOC's don't work at all when you constantly need to resync controllers. You cannot sync at the same time as another person, so only one player within bluetooth range can sync at a time. In the past, tournaments have banned all wireless controllers, but since the Wii does not offered a wired version, its going to be tricky balancing the needs of the tournament organizer with the variety of control options offered.