Online doesnt mean ANYTHING

[Sundown]

Online matches dont mean SHI T

When will all these newcomers (NOTE: newcomers, not n00bs, im not trying to start a flamewar here) get it?

Theres so many new posters in the different character forums talking about how good they are, and then, they bust out my favorite line "oh you dont believe me? I CHALLENGE YOU ON WIFI!!!!". Omg... that line... whenever no1 believes all of this new amazing players that "beat melee pros" (yeah they all love that line as well). They bust out the "here is my Frend Code, lets play and ill show you!!!" line.

No1 gives (or at least no1 shouldnt) a *** if you are 1000-0 Online..., it doesnt prove ****, it doesnt prove you are good, and it defiently doesnt prove you are better than your opponent, so please stop with these stupid challenges "I AM BETTER THAN U" "NO URE NOT" "OK HERES MY FC; WE PLAY ONLINE AND THAT SHALL PROVE IT" "OK BIAAATCH, I LIVE IN (put state here) SO THERE SHOULDNT BE SO MUCH LAG, ITS LEGAL!!!".

No, its not legal, no, it doesnt prove ****. If you want to prove something, or show you are good, get your *** to a respected tournament and place good there.

Stop with this online nonsense, online is good for practicing and im sure its very fun to be able to play vs humans whenever and wherever, but for the love of god stop taking it like it means something.

And before you talk about CS, or competitive online PC games, this is a fighting game, where a difference in 1-3 frames means a lot.

So just stop it ok?

 

[Sean²]

I CHALLENGE YOU TO A GAME OF (online) SMASH BROS

 

[dguy6789]

Sorry, you're completely wrong.

 

[Sun-Wukong]

Wow, you missed the mark in so many ways it's not even funny.

 

[Banjodorf]

Sorry, you're completely wrong.

The above statement is true.


also, what defines "Respected Tournament Place..."?

 

[estion11]

as long as you have a good connection online plays fine... it sounds to me like someones making excuses

 

[~N9NE~]

If you're 1000-0, then surely you're doing something right. Surely?

 

[Airgemini]

I dont see whats the difference if you Brawl online with a good connection opposed to playing in the same room.

 

[Sundown]

In all true and fairness id appreciate if you guys let me know why im wrong, or why i missed the mark in so many ways.

Thx

EDIT: to the poster above me:

The difference is really a few frames, 1-3 other 1-5 frames difference. That means a hell of a lot in fighting games, where 1 extra frame can really mess you up.

I know this is Brawl and not GG or SF but i will use these games for example, in this games you really have to pay atention and react very fast to go from low blocking to OH blocking when trying to block a string, 1 frame difference between when you were supposed to enter the stand up blocking animation and when you actually entered it means in this games to eat some very big damage.

Again, i know this is Brawl, it was just an example.

Id just love to hear why i am wrong, and to have a good debate. Its no fun if you guys just say "youre wrong" and dont explain nething :S

Edit 2: @Ganondorf4... : Man, i wrote "go to a respected tournament AND place well there", that means... you know place top 5 or something, but yeahm you didnt read the AND

 

[dguy6789]

Playing online is not exactly the same as playing offline, nobody said it was. It is just that saying playing online means absolutely nothing is quite a different story. Both players have the same degree of lag, so both have to adapt to it.

Your execution of moves and movement is only slightly effected by the lag, and is nothing that can't be adapted to within a few rounds if you are playing with someone with a reasonable connection. The mental aspect of the game is completely unchanged. You still have to out think your opponent regardless of input delay. If you beat someone over and over online, it is pretty certain you will beat them offline.

My tournament placings:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=151687

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=159989

 

[Pink Reaper]

While being 1000-0 online would definitely prove you are amazing at this game, Im actually going to have to(sort of) agree with the OP. Online skill =/= offline skill, and while there is a certain amount of skill in online play, there are too many variables(lag being the most noticeable) for it to matter too much in the long run.

Edit: at guy above me, both players actually DONT have an equal amount of lag. Whoever hosts the match always has significantly less lag than the one that does.

 

[mangodurban]

I want you to look on the smashbrawlrankings leaderboard and tell me what you see....... Good players on top? But wait? It doesnt mean anything???????? try getting a good connection, i only have button lag if im playing with japan wii or the other person has a ****ty connection. The best win in online matches just as they do in local, any complications to that is not a product of the internet but of the individual players. wifi is laggy if you have **** internet, to say ANYTHING is pure ignorant.

 

[Sundown]

I would like to use this opportunity to admit that i obviously exagerated in my first post. 1000-0 is obviously an exageration, and i do tend to exagerate everything i say.

But i still stand strong in the main idea behind my opening post, people really shouldnt use to compare skill.

Dguy, theres also the thing of preassure, when you play online, you play from your house, your couch, etc., theres no preassure, theres no problem. When you play at a tournament, specially a known one, where there are a lot of other good players there, then you know youre playing 1) with money on the line. 2) there are people watching you. 3) your opponent is right there.

So no, the mental game is not the same, theres much more "preassure" (if you can call it so) in an offline enviorment.

I dont want it to sound like i have anything against online gaming, because i dont, and as i said im sure it is very fun and so. But it doesnt prove much, and people should be WARNED about taking it too seriously, because one thing is an online tourny, or online friendlies, and another thing is FC, Pound, or you name it.

EDIT: there is ALWAYS lag in online games, sometimes (best case scenario) it can be very hard to notice, but there will always be, as the data will always have to travel from one place to the other.

 

[dguy6789]

Edit: at guy above me, both players actually DONT have an equal amount of lag. Whoever hosts the match always has significantly less lag than the one that does.

I have not noticed any difference in hosting or not in my matches.


The pressure of a tournament vs lack thereof online doesn't matter in this argument. I am stating that a degree of skill is required to play and win online, and it usually correlates with offline skill.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

Except, alot of people like online? And...it CAN be played competitivly online.

 

[Sundown]

No, i am sorry but i dont think it can... well actually... what do you mean by competitive?

As i said, you can train and practice and have a lot of fun online (train = competitive rules etc), but to actually play competitively, i mean as in play for money, either money matches or tournaments where theres a big pot, etc. And also, when you want to really prove your worth in the game and so. Im sorry if i sound too oldschool but it will always be better in an offliine enviorment. Theres a reason for CPL, theres a reason for EVO, theres a reason for FC, for Pound, theres a reason for all of these offline tournaments. Because it is ALWAYS BETTER.

It nerves me how people now play online vs people from the same state and sometimes from the same Zip Code, instead of just driving 15 minutes of half an hour, to play the matches offline... i just dont get it.

But thats subjctive and i cant argue with that, so i stand by the main point: Theres always lag, even if its 1-3 frames, and in fighting games, thats a lot.

 

[dguy6789]

The lag in Brawl doesn't affect the game quite as much as it would if we were playing Melee or Street Fighter. Brawl is significantly slower paced, and if you play with someone with a good connection the lag is low and consistent. The only difference between offline and online play is a small amount of input delay that is shared by both players. Under a completely consistent environment, which is usually the case, competitive play is very possible.

Also some personal experience. Every single Florida player that I have played online and beaten, I have beaten them offline as well.

Real life tournaments are always better, nobody debates that.

A little advice. This forum has over 100,000 members. Less than 5,000 of them have any clue what they are talking about. When you make a thread, blatant exaggeration is the easiest way to be seen as a noob and then treated as such. You have done well aside from your original post though.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

No, i am sorry but i dont think it can... well actually... what do you mean by competitive?

As i said, you can train and practice and have a lot of fun online (train = competitive rules etc), but to actually play competitively, i mean as in play for money, either money matches or tournaments where theres a big pot, etc. And also, when you want to really prove your worth in the game and so. Im sorry if i sound too oldschool but it will always be better in an offliine enviorment. Theres a reason for CPL, theres a reason for EVO, theres a reason for FC, for Pound, theres a reason for all of these offline tournaments. Because it is ALWAYS BETTER.

It nerves me how people now play online vs people from the same state and sometimes from the same Zip Code, instead of just driving 15 minutes of half an hour, to play the matches offline... i just dont get it.

But thats subjctive and i cant argue with that, so i stand by the main point: Theres always lag, even if its 1-3 frames, and in fighting games, thats a lot.

1: I don't give a **** about playing for money
2: People don't feel like getting off their *** to DRIVE all the way down to their friends house to play a game of smash, when they can just simply do it at their own house online without having to go through setting up a time for them to allow them over and play.
3: My online is absolutly flawless I have almost zero lag unless I play someone with a crappy connection. I have no button lag either.
4: Playing compeitivly meaning seeing how good you are compared to the other, since we have perfectly flawless connections, and I don't feel like flying across the state to play with the other guy, online seems like a GREAT IDEA TO ME!

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

Brawl online is a complete joke. Mario Kart Wii has absolutely no lag when you play it online, and Brawl has enough delay where you could go get a sandwich and your input still wouldn't go through.

Nintenjoke needs to step their online **** up and get off this P2P garbage and get some insane servers up. I can't even take matches online seriously because of the lag. It makes some character who are lag sensitive completely ******** to play as, and I happen to play as those people, while people like ROB just spam sidestep downsmash and you can't react in time to get out of the way because of the delay.

Ridiculous.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Maybe my connection is just horrible, but I rarely get "Consistent" lag T.T I've had multiple matches where my opponent states that he experienced extremely little lag then asks why I wasn't moving(here's a hint, i was TRYING to move, it just wasn't happening) but then i've had matches where my lag was minimal and I could easily play at a semi-normal rate. However, I've found its too hard to play at my normal-best ratings as even if I have adapted to the input lag, my defensive/reactionary abilities can never be at there best as I cant react fast enough because of the lag.

Im not sure if that really makes sense, but what Im trying to say is, because of the lag, no matter how minimal, you'll never be able to play at your best because you'll never be able to react fast enough to make up for the lag and you get sort of "Guessing games" going on(will he hit me? will he miss? Should I shield? should I prepare for a counter attack?)

 

[DarkShadowRage]

Brawl online is a complete joke. Mario Kart Wii has absolutely no lag when you play it online, and Brawl has enough delay where you could go get a sandwich and your input still wouldn't go through.

Nintenjoke needs to step their online **** up and get off this P2P garbage and get some insane servers up. I can't even take matches online seriously because of the lag. It makes some character who are lag sensitive completely ******** to play as, and I happen to play as those people, while people like ROB just spam sidestep downsmash and you can't react in time to get out of the way because of the delay.

Ridiculous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOwdrreocUU what is this lag that you SPEAK OF?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKj-qSJTSUg
Because I'm NOT SEEING IT

 

[Stryks]

Obcourse its way more fun when the person is there with u, u can do some trash talk and whatever, but saying online means nothing is exagerating...

if that were the case then why da hell would they make ANY fighter online? if both the people have a good connection, to the point it moves completely smooth, then ull get a good match...

stop johning...

 

[dguy6789]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOwdrreocUU what is this lag that you SPEAK OF?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKj-qSJTSUg
Because I'm NOT SEEING IT

He is talking about input delay, which is not really visible.

 

[kamekasu]

No Johns xD.

In all seriousness, online is a joke. I can never take Wi-fi matches seriously. I've basically given up. If you want real practice, why play on Wi-fi anyways?

It shouldn't be as big a problem with Brawl though. Considering how little tech skill is necessary to win, it doesn't impact that much if both players have a decent connection.

 

[GhostCore]

I have one thing to say and one thing only. ITS A GAME! Most online games are subjected to lagg, so is life yet player's continue to play, that is why people who have high brawling scores have high brawling scores, because they play to their limit through thick and thin, lag or no lag.

 

[Jester Kirby]

Well, I can see where you're comming from if there is horrid lag, but alot of matches are fine and definitly proove something. and, I'v never seen any of those quotes.

 

[Problem2]

I was playing someone online a while back and lost every single match to him. They were close, but he always got that finishing move.

Then, when we played in the same room sometime later, I was constantly 2-3 stocking him. Lag DOES make a difference.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Your execution of moves and movement is only slightly effected by the lag, and is nothing that can't be adapted to within a few rounds if you are playing with someone with a reasonable connection. The mental aspect of the game is completely unchanged. You still have to out think your opponent regardless of input delay. If you beat someone over and over online, it is pretty certain you will beat them offline.

Wrong. Not only do you have to out think, but with lag you essentially have to predict the future rather than to react. Have you ever tried doing a fast combo (and before you start going "lawl no combos in Brawl" STFU) with lag? You fail miserably because you don't know what direction your opponent is going to DI to until it's too late unless you guess right.

Maybe you have seamless WiFi, lucky you. I don't. And I don't play online because of it.

At the TS: If noobs are attempting to challenge you online because they think they're better than you, tell them you refuse to play online. If they think they're hot ****, challenge them to a match in person. If they discard your invitation, that's your answer. **** them and move on.

 

[IKE_Angel]

Dang like oh my god can everybody just calm down it's just a game for crying out loud sure it's a pretty good game but when it comes right down to it everybody just wants to play and i'll take u online lol jp

 

[CO18]

If there isnt lag its the same.

 

[shatoga]

Well, if it's lag free then yeah, i'd say it means something.But most of my matches have big button lag, so i don't judge myself on how i do online, since i usually just joke around and falcon pawnch all over the place lol.

 

[mangodurban]

there is still mindgames, what your referring to is pressure when your opponent is next to you and money is on the line. A mind game is what you do with your character to confuse the opponent whether it be a quick wierd move to make them miss to switching up your playstyle in a crucial moment. under pressure...

 

[Norm]

Now if you play online and you do well online then it does more than likely mean your good now good as a pro maybe not, i know i do very well online and i would love to try my hand at a tournement lving in Newfoundland chances of that happening are slim at the moment. So wile i would love to try my hand at a pro i'm not going to seek it out or anything i'm sure they're already getting plauged with people going dude here's my brawl code add me i'll kick you ***. So if you win a lot online probebly means your good at brawl good as a pro who knows only but you wont find out untill you try a tournement.

 

[Dogysamich]

/me looks up to see

"Online fighting games are legit" (which is an understood false statement, btw)

followed by

"I dont care about playing for money"

with "Online is legit competition" somewhere in the middle.

__

Brawl, the gateway game into the fighting game community. Anybody who argues really doesnt understand. XD

 

[6footninja]

Maybe this post should have been titled "Lag is a *****".

 

[thesage]

People should play Ness online and try to recover with him and then say there's no lag lol.

 

[Pink Reaper]

/me looks up to see Dogysamich

FAWLCOOOON PAAAAUNCH!!!!

*runs away*

 

[MarthTrinity]

People should play Ness online and try to recover with him and then say there's no lag lol.

QFT

Spoiler

10PKThundersides

 

[dguy6789]

Wrong. Not only do you have to out think, but with lag you essentially have to predict the future rather than to react. Have you ever tried doing a fast combo (and before you start going "lawl no combos in Brawl" STFU) with lag? You fail miserably because you don't know what direction your opponent is going to DI to until it's too late unless you guess right.

The delay applies to both players.

I don't even see how this can be an argument. Online play takes skill, offline play takes skill. They are not exactly the same thing, but they are not too different either. Anyone that says that adding in the element of lag makes the outcome of the match random and unrelated to skill is an idiot.

Edit: If the person you are playing with is lagging so bad that it affects the game beyond a reasonable value, just don't play with the person. If your connection is so bad that it doesn't allow you to play the game online effectively, either fix your connection or don't play online.

 

[mangodurban]

^I agree sir.