Overcoming scrubness to play competitively.

[masterspeaks]

Yeah, seriously. What the hell?
sometimes gay is the only word that fits

I guess I have nothing left to say to you. If you have such a shallow grasp of the English language, that you cannot possibly think of any other word besides gay for describing something in a negative light there is little hope for you. I don't want to make a big deal out of it, but it is just the way our society works. By constantly using and associating the word gay with negative connotation, it adds unnecessary baggage to an identity many people still have problems accepting. If you can act like a grownup for a few minutes, you can try and put yourself in someone else's shoes or consider how it would feel to hear people make light of your troubles. I suppose that is a lot to ask...

Anyway, we are getting seriously off topic and I don't really want to discuss this here. I'll stop asking people to be respectful and we can all just insult each other etc. That will surely promote a good conversation

 

[HiIH]

I have a very definite opinion on why I think political correctness is pretentious, especially in this situation, but I don't feel like cluttering this thread with it.

 

[dezerte]

Rofl, it's almost like I wrote this myself.

 

[star_wolf86]

Anybody who actually uses the term "scrubs" needs to calm down and just play the game.

Seriously, you guys would have a lot more fun playing Smash Bros if you didn't worry about who's a "scrub" and who's not. If you can't handle somebody playing different than you, then maybe you should just sell your copy of Brawl right now, because I can guarantee that you wont get any fun out of it.

Personally, sometimes I play to win, sometimes I play to have fun. Depends on my mood. When I'm playing to win usually my gaming fashion follows these criteria:
-Wolf or possibly Luigi
-No Items(except on special occasions. me and my friends occasionally have tourneys that involve turning on ray guns and super scopes. still keeps the fight balanced and tests our skill by seeing who can properly use the weapons on the field. these gunfights are rare occasions for us, but we still enjoy them.)
-Any of the following stages:
a)Lylat Cruise(my fav. map)
b)Battlefield
c)Yoshi's Island
d)Final Destination
e)Smashville
f)Delfino Plaza
-Stock battle(usually either 3, 5, or 7. depending on how long we wanna take.)

However, a lot of times, I also just like to relax, sit back, and just play for fun, regardless of who wins. My gaming fashion when I don't play to win usually follows these criteria:
-Really just a randomly picked character. I don't usually use the "random" icon, instead I just pick a random one on my own. Usually one that I haven't played as in a while.
-All items on
-Pretty much any stage, my favorite stage to play at for fun matches is usually WarioWare.
-Stock battle, same criteria as competitive matches
-If I'm just facing one opponent, we often like to add in CPU bots during these fun matches, usually lv.9

I know right now, that people in here are going to tell me that I can never improve my skills by using the criteria for my fun matches. Ya know what? I DON'T CARE!!! Those matches are just for fun! I don't play them any more often or less often than my competitive matches.

 

[Samochan]

In regards to using the word gay, why not simply say a move is really good or broken. It is beyond childish for people to use it regardless of context.

It is a word just like any other and I'm allowed to use it on forums as long as it does not cause serious problems. There are lots of other even worse words used everyday by people to another person live and on forums as well. It is also integrated to smash vocabulary and no one else thinks it as offensive, cause everyone on smashboards get the meaning behind it. And last time I checked this is smashboards that does not even censor the word. And myself, I only use it smash circles anyway, I don't go spouting "gay!" on streets to random people. >_>

Also regarding "beyond childish"... this is brawl forums, remember? It's not exacly overflowing with intelligence and mature discussion. There are worse things in life, smashboards and smash than worrying and trying to regulate someone using a particular word online. >_>

*insert "internet is serious business" image here*

 

[masterspeaks]

It is a word just like any other and I'm allowed to use it on forums as long as it does not cause serious problems. There are lots of other even worse words used everyday by people to another person live and on forums as well. It is also integrated to smash vocabulary and no one else thinks it as offensive, cause everyone on smashboards get the meaning behind it. And last time I checked this is smashboards that does not even censor the word. And myself, I only use it smash circles anyway, I don't go spouting "gay!" on streets to random people. >_>

Also regarding "beyond childish"... this is brawl forums, remember? It's not exacly overflowing with intelligence and mature discussion. There are worse things in life, smashboards and smash than worrying and trying to regulate someone using a particular word online. >_>

*insert "internet is serious business" image here*

Well Samochan, I am happy that you speak for every person on Smashboard and have informed me every single person on smashboards thinks using gay as a term to describe negative things is super cool. I guess I'm the only idiot on SBF that hasn't read the smashboard dictionary where it has that particular definition. Excuse me much plox.

I can clearly see now that trying to promote intelligent and mature discussion is pointless. I'm glad you have set my priorities straight and showed me that there are more important things in life than smash. Because I never would have known without your help. I mean I used to think what I did in my free time could be somewhat frivolous, but that is clearly not the case.

From my past experiences, competitive gaming communities may revolve around a game tailored for children. However, the majority of the competitive players tended to be past school age or at least able to freely travel on their own to tournaments and such. Forgive me for trying to talk to people as adults. From here on I will make sure I talk down to people as much as possible.

P.S. Seriously, we are way off-topic now.

 

[Save the Asians]

Good read, and many things I didnt think of. Makes complete sense though.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Please get back on topic, and refrain from the usage of the word "gay" in a derogatory sense (I'm a mod, I gotta keep the peace, guys).

 

[Veil2222]

This is a niche context, I'm getting really tired of that book getting multiquoted by every gamer who yields to it as gospel. I'd rather have a dual then a competitive match because of this exact context, it takes fun out of it for me, and that's what a lot of people who disagree with this mentality feel. This isn't me being a "scrub", it's me having a differing and equal opinion. I still compete, I still do well, and I'm not going to let anyone label me as inferior because I don't resign myself to the same closed minded dogma as Sirlin.

 

[Samochan]

I didn't say everyone use it, but said that it wasn't used as an offensive term or understood as such primarily. Cow is a neutral term, but can be used offensively. Game characters do not get offended least bit when some of their movesets gets called g** by someone. And those are really the only ones these words are directed to, not an actual person.

And even while lots of board members are well past 15 years of age, there is lots of dumb people and not-exacly-mature persons especially on the brawl boards. I also meant that last part as kind of a joke, if the emoticon was any hint of that.

I can stop using the word on your thread if you so want, but trying to regulate it as a rule... probably won't work that well. (not saying you are trying to, but just saying it here) :/ But you shouldn't take it so seriously in any case, I've gotten called as a f.a.g for no reason at all. All I did was "olololol, moving on". Actions speak louder than words and barking dog does not bite, as the sayings go. :3

Just to clear it up, so back to topic. :3

 

[Flipstar]

Seriously, you guys would have a lot more fun playing Smash Bros if you didn't worry about who's a "scrub" and who's not.

Stop telling us how to have fun!

 

[masterspeaks]

This is a niche context, I'm getting really tired of that book getting multiquoted by every gamer who yields to it as gospel. I'd rather have a dual then a competitive match because of this exact context, it takes fun out of it for me, and that's what a lot of people who disagree with this mentality feel. This isn't me being a "scrub", it's me having a differing and equal opinion. I still compete, I still do well, and I'm not going to let anyone label me as inferior because I don't resign myself to the same closed minded dogma as Sirlin.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to have a duel or whatever rules you want to come up with. You seem to be missing the point that this is solely for people trying to excel in a competitive environment. If you are fine with simply getting by in the community, you can play in whatever manner you wish. Inevitably you will play against someone who understands these concepts and have to choose whether you want to win or continue playing the same way. There really isn't anything close minded about it, it is just a reality you have to face if you want to become the best. Again no one is calling you a scrub, it is perfectly ok to play casually anyway you choose with your friends.

 

[Dojo Sam]

I'm a scrub.

...which is a bad thing. But I'm going to admit that frankly to myself, because over a few of my previous games, I've been:

1) Cutting off my barrage of arrows while playing Pit against friends because I was afraid (yes, AFRAID) of being called "cheap."

2) Getting flustered by Lucas's proficiency in the air instead of adapting to and countering it.

I think Sirlin's more or less correct in saying this kind of stuff has to go. And I think he wrote the article so we could look honestly at ourselves and analyze what sort of artificial mental blocks we're creating for ourselves as impediments to top-level play. Honestly, I don't care for calling other people scrubs, but I do care for calling myself a scrub. It shows me that I have things to work on.

 

[masterspeaks]

So long as you learn new things, you can only get better. Not spamming your arrows is only spoiling your friend for when he may have to play against someone who has no qualms using them liberally. Force Lucas into a ground game, he has to knock you up into the air somehow if you don't jump. Its small stuff like that that goes a long way towards improving your game.

 

[DJ Meow Mix]

You know, after reading this, I kinda realize what's been dragging me down a bunch. I'm a lot like that scrub that you took down that complained about throws.

Interesting how much you can learn about yourself on just one simple post. I've got some work to do now ^^

 

[Veil2222]

You're further proving my point, who said I was casual? And who says I'm not as good as someone with your mindset? I don't just "get by" in the community, I run a tourny scene where I live with 2 of my friends of about 40-50 people. You're assuming your mindset is the only one possible to achieve success, which is false, if you're saying that mindset is the only one that can get you to the top, why aren't you there yet? What hangups as a player do you have that prevent this mindset from elevating you to the next level?

I fail to see how this idea is any more valid than any other, there are no experts on competitive gaming, it is not a science, and it's barely even a career. I'm not going to listen to just one person, while their point of view is obviously well informed, it's easily countered by any other well informed person in the field. This is not the only idea that works, and I'm tired of it being treated as such.

 

[masterspeaks]

That is a fair argument Veil2222, but your competitive scene is still limited in comparison to the national competitive environment. I'm not at the top because I have other obligations and I can't dedicate myself to the game as others can, even with that aside there are many more people that are simply more skilled than myself. I never tried to say I was the greatest player. However, I have played CCGs, board games, poker, and various fighting games competitively to some degree over the years. Concepts that were mentioned in the OP were universal regardless of the game. I would back my point of view with tons of personal experience if you feel it is necessary.

Nevertheless, your point is equally valid if you can back it up with logical points. Please explain to me what you think it takes to perform well competitively. Please remember that overcoming scrub mentality is only the first step to becoming a better player. Winning has a lot to do with the physical condition of the player, so I suppose it is possible for a person such as yourself to do well at a national stage. However, it is unlikely you will win because the people who regularly play in those tournaments understand the metagame and have most likely experienced far more tactics than you have. It is never fun to admit you are inferior to other players more skilled than you, but not doing so is disrespectful to them because of how much they have dedicated themselves to the game.

 

[Veil2222]

What's worked for me in every competition I've ever been in, is knowing the game you're playing well enough to play however you want and still pull it off. Like you, I've also competed in many fields including martial arts, fencing, TCG's, RTS's and the like. My natural skill, and approaching with the mindset of analyzing my opponant, has pulled me through every time. Of course there are people that are flat out better than me, but they've analyzed the game more than I have, and they've refined their natural skill towards this game likewise.

I played Young Link in melee, and the way I played him was counter to what was popular in the tourney scene. I never wavedashed, I only l-canceled 2 of his moves (the only two they could catch up to the lag), and I never edgehogged (never needed to for kills). Through practice and watching the enemy, I didn't need to use anything they were (counterpick characters/top tier, other techs) to keep up to and surpass them. As for metagame, I've yet to see a tech that beats mindgaming, which is my strongest plan of attack, and I can perform it on anyone.

Sirlins method seems to be to watch what is successful in other players and adapt that to be your own without moral dilemma, without considering which character you like the most, without considering how you like the game to be played. Yeah, this mindset is only focused on winning, I focus equally on the path to winning and the goal itself. If I lose a game because I didn't resign myself to a tactic I refuse to use, that's fine, I count it as a loss, but when I beat someone of this mindset using tactics I don't agree with, it makes it that much more "fun" to me. Statistically Id probably win and lose just as many matches as someone with equal expirence, I just play differently, because of that, the game is more fun for me.

 

[Samochan]

I played Young Link in melee, and the way I played him was counter to what was popular in the tourney scene. I never wavedashed, I only l-canceled 2 of his moves (the only two they could catch up to the lag), and I never edgehogged (never needed to for kills).

Well, anyone who is not able to punish ylink's aerial attacks that are not L-cancelled I would not deem exceptionally good or have awful reaction speeds. I do not have any info about your skill whatsoever of course and I'm not saying you are a bad player, but please inform me how your opponents fail to punish ylink's nair and bair for example. (of course, full jumped nair and bair are exceptions but cannot really hit grounded opponents without getting punished unless higher%). I'm also pretty well aware of what Ylink is capable of doing on melee due to being friends with Jash, one of the notable melee ylink users in US.

 

[Veil2222]

I use full jump bair, I almost never need fair. I never said I do ariels in their face, I use a combination of projectiles, grabs, and full jump ariels to make people mess up and punish. I approach with projectiles mostly, full jump nair is pretty fast and I can hit with the 2nd hit without lcancel. I don't play up in your face ground game shot hops like most other people.

 

[VulgarHandGestures]

did anyone else find it ironic, considering the topic of the thread, that the thread starter got all huffy and whined when people used a word that he didn't like?

 

[berserker515]

did anyone else find it ironic, considering the topic of the thread, that the thread starter got all huffy and whined when people used a word that he didn't like?

lol i did.

the OP gave me a shocking wake up call though. i still don't ever see myself reduced to camping/spamming to win. i'd rather sell my brawl than press B and c-stick all match. i guess i'm a scrub. oh well.

 

[anomalous]

You know, though it wasn't expectation, I honestly hoped that this thread was going to actually be about Sirlin's article, and discussion surrounding it. You know what, my mistake. What I got was a series of misunderstandings, in both the arguments between people and in the article itself. What a ****ing shame.

At least allow me to clarify some of the things Sirlin says here, for the people who keep inserting concepts in his article that simply don't exist.

-Sirlin is not telling you how to have fun. He's telling you how to play to win, if you didn't get that from the title already. If you want to host a FFA game with items and all stages, go for it. There's nothing in his article that says you're in the wrong by doing so. But if you want to win, then you got to play to win, don't make excuses.

-Sirlin is not saying that scrubs are "inferior" to people who play to win. On that note, what criteria are you even using? Inferior as people, or inferior as players? Because the article already addresses why scrubs are generally inferior to tourny players: they limit their winning potential by imposing an arbitrary set of rules that exist outside of the game. Beyond that, Sirlin says nothing about whether or not having a scrub mindset is necessarily a "good" or "bad" thing, only that such a mindset is crippling in the pursuit of competitive play, as opposed to "playing for fun". In my opinion, being a scrub is fine. Hating certain things in games is common, and your own affair. It's when you start mouthing off to me and others who play to win, that's when I have a problem with you. If you're a scrub, don't push your petty ideals on everyone else. Keep them to yourself, and everyone's fine.

-Sirlin says nothing about the way you "feel" in a match. He doesn't say anything about whether getting frustrated makes you a scrub or not. But he does say thatlimiting your potential by imposing self-made rules is what scrubs do. Actually, if getting angry increases your focus and will to win, then I would think doing so would be perfectly within the realm of playing to win.


And regarding some of the things in this thread,

Apparently that person and yourself have no real notion of honour or showmanship. When you have a duel, one where you count to ten, turn and shoot, it's pretty easy to just shoot your opponent in the back of the head once he's counted to two. It takes respect for your opponent to show them the same courtesy they pay to you, namely not spamming one move that's guaranteed to hit and kill without fail and actually put effort into a fight as they are.

Call me a scrub if you must, but just pressing one thing that always yields the same results isn't much of a game to me. At least in a one button RPG, the button does different things every now and again.

Thank you for providing a near perfect example of a scrub's mindset. I know that sounds condescending, but in most ways it's not. You're not a bad person for wanting to play with showmanship or honor, but you're likely not going to win in a competition, especially against people who utilize techniques to win. And that's exactly what Sirlin is saying.

lol i did.

the OP gave me a shocking wake up call though. i still don't ever see myself reduced to camping/spamming to win. i'd rather sell my brawl than press B and c-stick all match. i guess i'm a scrub. oh well.

This is a good example of why a scrub isn't necessarily a bad individual.

Sirlin doesn't say whether or not winning is everything. I'm sure he understands that it isn't. It's something that a lot of people understand, myself included. I agree with berserker, I think camping and spamming is simply not fun. Maybe that makes me a scrub by refusing to play to win. But the difference between me and the regular scrub is that I've acknowledged that I'm not playing to win, and I'm not going to selfishly try to stop or decry someone else's gameplay style on my own opinions.

I encountered this problem in practically every match of CoD 4. I cannot recall a game that someone did not tell me not to use (or simply ban me for the use of) the grenade launcher. Or as it's more commonly known, the noob tube. For those of you who I may have played against and told me that I was being cheap, please excuse me for playing to win. I wasn't aware that the developers made the m203 so that it wouldn't be used. I told you in game and I'm going to tell you now, "Don't hate the player, hate the game."

 

[Primus DCE]

So scrubs would prefer finesse while a skilled player would slit their momma's throat to win? Interesting.

 

[MIRN]

Whenever an opponent of mine uses a move I dislike, I will verbally complain for a while, until I figure out a way to overcome it. For example, I play versus Zelda a lot, and I tend to hate that she can kill at such low percentages, and negate much of my aerial game through her Nair (which is very, very good.) I complain, but do try to figure a way around some of the moves. I don't know, it almost seems that the more I complain, the more I strive to actually get better, and it stops me from being lazy and complacent.

If you're playing a good opponent at all in Brawl, spamming is not going to net you a win anyway, no matter who you are playing. "Combos" are hard to pull off, and DI is too good. This game is much more defense-oriented than Melee, and becoming a good defensive player is paramount to success. I'm still working on that, and will be for awhile.

 

[Deleted member]

this is a pro thread lol

 

[-Aether]

Just so everyone knows, David Sirlin or whatever has written several horrible opinion papers on the nature of competetive gaming. Just because his one section of "playing to win" has some critical points, it's important to remember this guy is just as biased as anyone else.

He's been highly successful in Street Fighter - this does not make him god. I always tend to remind people of this because his "Playing to Win" has come up on almost every competetive video gaming forum I've read.

 

[PK-ow!]

you'd have a stronger post if you left out some of the more derisive things about scrubs. E.g., the button mashing. It helps to avoid that kind of cutting statement when it's not necessary, and in particular, it may confuse the reader as to the applicability of your thesis, vis a vis the generality of your definition for 'scrub'.

Definitely *leave in* the part where you say the motives of a scrub are inscrutable. I really wonder what a scrub is thinking when they say something is not fun. It implies there are other conditions for when it is fun... but what are they? Surely they still want the game to be hard, because they say, and I understand, when they say something is 'boring', (although I never call a match boring for the same reason).

Great read.

Oh, and, the sign of a scrub is definitely asking if "X is all you can do" or similar. If you pull off some crazy **** and I'm getting smoked, I'll make some "WTF?" comments just to make conversation, maybe blow off some steam, but my focus is renewed. I don't think *anything* of how it's kicking my *** - I focus only on figuring out a way to counter.

So that's just anecdote for anyone who might be identifying scrubs.

 

[f.o.b]

there's many points in the thread, but either way was a fun read. i can't say whether i agree with you or not but i think you made an effort to make the topic.

 

[uremog]

you'd have a stronger post if you left out some of the more derisive things about scrubs. E.g., the button mashing. It helps to avoid that kind of cutting statement when it's not necessary, and in particular, it may confuse the reader as to the applicability of your thesis, vis a vis the generality of your definition for 'scrub'.

it's not his writing, it's sirlin's

this is a pro thread lol

that has a lot of scrubs, lol


OP: you forgot the whole point, that all the scrubs need to stop crying at how broken characters are and other junk. use your time to finding out how to beat it unconstrained by needless rules

 

[Tien2500]

I'm really tired of seeing Sirlin quoted around here. Don't post his stuff unless you find something that he posts about smashbrothers or something similar. Street fighter is a very different game. I played CvS2 at a near competitive level (I played it alot and while I didn't play tournaments I played against people who did compete and placed highly. They were better than me but I was good enough to keep it close and win about 1/4 of the time against top local players). And it is so different than Smash that it is ridiculous. There are no physics exploits, or glitches to be taken advantage of. The most you can do is add some invincibility frames to a special move if your timing is very precise. So thats a pretty big difference. There are also, as far as I know but I could be wrong, no easily abused infinite combos such as Dedede's chain grab.

Street Fighter also does not have anything like the projectiles prevalant in Melee. If someone sat back in a corner and repeatedly threw fireballs they would be abused. You can dodge every one of them and jump in with a combo starter. Wolf or Pit's projectiles are not so easily dealt with. Turtling in a streetfighter game is not such a dominant tactic that it reduces high level play to projectile wars.

Here is the tl:dr version. This article was written about street fighter which is so vastly different from Smash that I don't think it really is useful in a smash community. If he wrote something about smash or games with major physics exploits (Mario Kart perhaps) then maybe it would be more relevant.

 

[Moosecalibur]

Oh My God, This All Makes Perfect Sense!!!

even though I'm a littly scrubby, I now know what to do to fix it

 

[Gill]

did anyone else find it ironic, considering the topic of the thread, that the thread starter got all huffy and whined when people used a word that he didn't like?

Anyone else find it awesomely hysterical and fitting that the one to point this out is named VulgarHandGestures?

XD

 

[GoForkUrself]

Basically Melee and Brawl are just extreme cases of what Sirlin says right? So that means it applies even more. Anyway, even if you don't like camping, you can still be competitive without it. Just be someone who's metagame won't revolve around it(Metaknight). If you insist on using Pit and never camping, then you are a scrub. I don't like to use Pit because I know I will mega camp, and I don't want to play that way. I still chain grab with DDD and waddlespam(partial camping), cuz I have nothing against "cheap" techniques, I just want to win and I don't like Pit's metagame. With Ike and Marth, I don't have projectiles at all, so I can't spam them.
You don't have to be pit or falco to beat them, you just need to use a character with more powerful "cheapness" and defeat them.

P.S. If someone responds, "my falco doesn't laser spam so don't compare him to pit," then they are a scrub.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Um thats stupid.
If you don't camp as Pit you're a scrub?
Ignorance.
There is no such thing as a proper way to play a character especially since Brawl isn't a typical fighting game.

Yes there are tactics that are best for each characters, Pit and Link a re good with defensive play tactics and camping. That doesn't mean a person is a scrub for not choosing to use those tactics.
You don't have to change characters in order to play competitively.
There was a Peach user (whose name I cannot remember) who broke nearly every idea on how to use Peach in melee.
He acted unpredictably did things that a competitive Peach normally does not do and did very well in the competitive area.
Saying I do not wish to camp because I want to use my character a different way does not make you a scrub.
Saying I refuse to use this character because camping is gay is when you become a scrub. That's when you're acting illogical and refuse to acknowledge the strengths of your character.


My Falco actually doesn't laser spam. Would you like to call me (who has owned melee since it appeared and brawl since it came out) a scrub? Including ymself that has won a few local tournaments and placed well in other ones? Assumptions make an *** out of you and me so don't make them. You'll look elitist.

Spam insinuates a constant or regular usage of the laser. I don't use it simply because I do not wish to be predictable.
Yes I do use the laser but not so much as to be considered spamming since Falco's strengths also lie in his close range fighting ability and combo ability.
While laser spamming is good for baiting my enemy to come up close and rack up damage, I am most likely not going to do that all the time.
In fact if you look at competitive lay in melee the only time they used a move repeatedly is if that move had little to no lag and made up for its predictability.

For example Marth's Fair which can be used to approach or defend against an opponent.
laser spamming is good but doesn't make up for its predictably as greatly so a game centering around it may not do well against an opponent who has counter picked a character or stage against you, or has a way of baiting you so that they can take advantage of your laser spamming. Simply because the laser loses its defensive ability as the range between you and your opponent decreases.
granted I can use laser spamming to force my opponent to me so I can combo them to oblivion, but that doesn't mean I can't go agro myself.
A character best tactic isn't always center around one move especially if they are versatile such as Pit and Falco.

tl;dr version: No one is a scrub for taking their character in a different way, its only if they refuse due to ignorance.
goforkurself if you disagree you are a scrub. That is the basic message that you are putting out.

 

[Twin Dreams]

Um thats stupid.
If you don't camp as Pit you're a scrub?
Ignorance.
There is no such thing as a proper way to play a character especially since Brawl isn't a typical fighting game.

Yes there are tactics that are best for each characters, Pit and Link a re good with defensive play tactics and camping. That doesn't mean a person is a scrub for not choosing to use those tactics.
You don't have to change characters in order to play competitively.
There was a Peach user (whose name I cannot remember) who broke nearly every idea on how to use Peach in melee.
He acted unpredictably did things that a competitive Peach normally does not do and did very well in the competitive area.
Saying I do not wish to camp because I want to use my character a different way does not make you a scrub.
Saying I refuse to use this character because camping is gay is when you become a scrub. That's when you're acting illogical and refuse to acknowledge the strengths of your character.


My Falco actually doesn't laser spam. Would you like to call me (who has owned melee since it appeared and brawl since it came out) a scrub? Including ymself that has won a few local tournaments and placed well in other ones? Assumptions make an *** out of you and me so don't make them. You'll look elitist.

Spam insinuates a constant or regular usage of the laser. I don't use it simply because I do not wish to be predictable.
Yes I do use the laser but not so much as to be considered spamming since Falco's strengths also lie in his close range fighting ability and combo ability.
While laser spamming is good for baiting my enemy to come up close and rack up damage, I am most likely not going to do that all the time.
In fact if you look at competitive lay in melee the only time they used a move repeatedly is if that move had little to no lag and made up for its predictability.

For example Marth's Fair which can be used to approach or defend against an opponent.
laser spamming is good but doesn't make up for its predictably as greatly so a game centering around it may not do well against an opponent who has counter picked a character or stage against you, or has a way of baiting you so that they can take advantage of your laser spamming. Simply because the laser loses its defensive ability as the range between you and your opponent decreases.
granted I can use laser spamming to force my opponent to me so I can combo them to oblivion, but that doesn't mean I can't go agro myself.
A character best tactic isn't always center around one move especially if they are versatile such as Pit and Falco.

tl;dr version: No one is a scrub for taking their character in a different way, its only if they refuse due to ignorance.
goforkurself if you disagree you are a scrub. That is the basic message that you are putting out.

Scrub = someone who is held back by personal limitations outside the scope of the game.

There is a difference between being crappy and being a scrub.

 

[masterspeaks]

did anyone else find it ironic, considering the topic of the thread, that the thread starter got all huffy and whined when people used a word that he didn't like?

I really wish the posts I had debating that could be removed from the thread. They seem to be distracting from the main topic. However, I do find it ironic that people will defend the scrub cry of "honour and respect" in relation to a video game but won't save any of that "honour" for real human interaction.

So scrubs would prefer finesse while a skilled player would slit their momma's throat to win? Interesting.

Your trolling is quite obvious, skilled players use any tactic available to them in order to counter and defeat their opponents. Scrub mentality limits a players' options and cuts off his oppurtunity to grow as a player.

Here is the tl:dr version. This article was written about street fighter which is so vastly different from Smash that I don't think it really is useful in a smash community. If he wrote something about smash or games with major physics exploits (Mario Kart perhaps) then maybe it would be more relevant.

Sirlin may have been using his experiences from Street Fighter as an example, but experiences in several different gaming and sports communities have shown me that scrub mentality is universal. Of course the specific tactics, like dragon punch, may not have been relevant to Melee or Brawl, but the concepts are the same. I specifically made this post because of a post I had recently read. I can't specifically quote the post, but some scrub said he and his friends decided to ban Pit and Metaknight because they felt it was unfair. Certainly, it is their choice as to what rules they choose for their casual matches, but the comment felt out of place in a competitive smash forum.

 

[Nobie]

The problem with shooting someone in the back before ten steps are taken is that it's violating the rules that have been established for that type of (deadly) competition, and it's not at all like "camping" or edgeguarding or whatever in Smash Bros. There's a reason the ten steps are taken, and it's to establish a relatively fair and common ground from which the duel can start.

This would be the equivalent of unplugging the opponent's controller while the intro animations are occurring, or hacking the game to remove someone's invincibility frames after getting KO'd.

 

[Twin Dreams]

Are these people suggesting that Sirlin only plays SF? He mention more games in his articles, including smash, gg, and MvC. Also, I would assume that being a competitor in a core fighting game for years would qualify him to comment extensively on player mindsets and basic strategies that can be applied to any game.

 

[Twin Dreams]

The problem with shooting someone in the back before ten steps are taken is that it's violating the rules that have been established for that type of (deadly) competition, and it's not at all like "camping" or edgeguarding or whatever in Smash Bros. There's a reason the ten steps are taken, and it's to establish a relatively fair and common ground from which the duel can start.

This would be the equivalent of unplugging the opponent's controller while the intro animations are occurring, or hacking the game to remove someone's invincibility frames after getting KO'd.

Pros will do everything in their power to win, within the rules of the tournament.


Because, if they break the rules, they'll be forced to forfeit the match/ejected from the tournament, which is a losing strategy. So, all pros know that breaking the rules is a losing strategy, so why do it?