Palutena vs Ness Matchup Notes

[AozoraX]

Hey guys,

I think we need an actual matchup thread for all the fighters but I have a few Ness notes.
Palutena vs Psychic Kids! 1.04

Advantages
- Speed. You run fast, use it to your advtange.
- Reflector can turn a campy Ness into a scared one
- AR blasts an Up+B-ing Ness over and over and it's better than you think (situational)
- Ness is light, so anything killing off the top is way better than anything killing off the side - Ness is airborne a bit.
- Palutena's Bair and DashAtk have protective properties that, when used, can block and intercept moves - though not many.
- Ness' B moves can be reflected and intercepted easily - PK fire and PK Thunder are the only ones you have to worry about.

Disadvantages
- Aerials... Your moves don't outrange Ness' fair. You will be beat by it, everytime.
- Ness' dashattack is far, strong and will always pop you up for problems. Not fun. It IS laggy but...
- Ness' grab game is INTENSE. Good Ness players will toss you down for fast percent buildup off combos and always fish for the final backthrow (early, even before 110%) because their forward smash is too slow half the time. You will be shieldgrabbed - and you won't like it.
- Safe moves: Ness has more of them. Palutena's safest move is a low fair with proper spacing. Ness has 4 times the utility.
- PK fire sets up for everything. PK Thunder keeps you in the air and it's annoying. Ness' answer to being auto reticled for no reason.


Ness is just hyper strong. Hyper good. Palutena has an uphill battle.
I would say that at this point, Palutena (even with DI and better tilts) has a buttload of issues versus Ness still.

Fill your two cents in, nothing I say is concrete but I hope some of them agree with you and we can mark the differences!

 

[chipndip]

1) Palutena's shield attacks aren't projectiles. They're shields. They literally block incoming attacks with proper timing, like G&W's u-smash. Because of their strict windows, it's hard to land, but it's definitely there.

2) Outside of that, it's gonna be your ground game that wins it. Palutena's ground game can beat out Ness with throw combos for gradual damage (or quick if you do the 17% n-air variant a few times). You can get the ball rolling off of those and some dash attacks and what-not, then set up a d-throw -> u-air finisher later.

3) Jab attacks can net around 10% per jab -> auto-combo -> finish. If you can't land a throw, you should try a few jabs.

I wouldn't say it's that uphill. Ness is strong, but Palutena has knock back, which is Ness's one true weakness given his size. What's more is that Ness isn't that fast, sparing Palutena from HER weakness. If you're a fast, relatively aggressive Palutena player, you can keep up and land something solid to win it.

 

[Agre Aggron]

I main both Ness and Palutena (mostly Ness), and this is a matchup that requires patience.
Don't get too greedy, punish any unneeded PKF's and throw out some good counters when he goes for obvious combos like dthrow into fair into (guess what?) fair.
I agree that it is an uphill battle.

 

[Maraphy]

Like Agre said, the matchup requires patience. I think the matchup is pretty even though; it's hard for Ness to get you to 110% if you space him well. Don't challenge his f-airs, just focus on getting out of his air combos and getting him into yours. You might be able to live past the 110% if you can read his grabs; jabbing should stop them, and if he rolls to try to get a grab on you it's possible to punish with D-smash.

 

[κomıc]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but can you DI out of f.airs?

 

[Masque]

Got a really satisfying Reflect on the opponent's double jump PK Fire, trapping him in midair and following with an Up Smash to punish. Unfortunately, it's pretty situational. If the opponent is spacing well, they will position Ness just far enough away that they can shield any reflected PK Fire shots. The occasional Reflect can prove useful for catching the opponent off-guard, but I think it's generally safer to shield and dash in for a grab instead.

Also, re: PK Thunder, if Ness is trying to juggle you while returning to the stage, just throw out a Nair and you can cancel the bolt. Alternatively, you can try to air-dodge the PK Thunder and fast-fall to capitalize on Ness's lag while the bolt is still active.

 

[Zediwonder]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but can you DI out of f.airs?

I think it's possible for Palutena to DI out of the fair, at the very least with lightweight it's possible otherwise you may have to suffer at least 2 sets of fairs if you're not careful.

 

[Masque]

I think it's possible for Palutena to DI out of the fair, at the very least with lightweight it's possible otherwise you may have to suffer at least 2 sets of fairs if you're not careful.

Yeah, I can usually DI/airdodge out by the third, but the first two are pretty much guaranteed.

 

[κomıc]

DI works the same in Brawl, too right? I never really used it and I'm surprised I've done well in the past without fully understanding it lol

You hold the control stick towards or away from your opponent/trajectory?