Peach+ Get Pimpslapped!

[SymphonicSage12]

So it's still in Falcon's favor?


I'd go with a 55-45 Peach.

 

[Player-3]

falcons uair ***** peach

:V

although that really the only move that does besides utilt

 

[GHNeko]

uair you at

 

[CloneHat]

So it's still in Falcon's favor?


I'd go with a 55-45 Peach.

When did I say that? >_>

I wholly agree with the 55-45 Peach's favour.

 

[crazycrackers]

k I'll put it at 55-45. Also I agree with Peach having an advantage on Diddy.

 

[THO]

So I've been looking all over the place and I can't find two pieces of information.

The first is the extra frames of shield stun that happen on each specific character in Brawl.
If any one has a link to this that would be great (i'll probably ask on the Brawl thread too, but figured I'd ask here just in case).

And second, how much shield stun does peach's aerials have. I remember when they first added the 2*old +3.5 frames of shield stun they ran into the problem that fair went to fair went to fair and eventually went to shield break (or at least it nearly was that good). They said they changed it but I can't find out where that change was documented.

I'm just trying to figure out frame data for peach cuz it would be really nice to have the new stuff documented somewhere and I can't find the facts.

Any help would be nice.

---So i've been looking over earlier posts on this thread and people were talking about changing the BKB a lower value so as to reduce shield stun to around 4 frames. Was this done? And also, how do you calculate Shield stun from BKB (or what actually determines shield stun in BP)?

 

[Magus420]

I don't know who originally thought BKB had anything at all to do with shieldstun but it doesn't. It's entirely based on the damage the hitbox does. It increases in steps by 2 frames of shieldstun for every 3 damage increase.

[FONT=Lucida Console]0-2     5 frames
3-5     7 frames
6-8     9 frames
9-11    11 frames
12-14   13 frames
15-17   15 frames
18-20   17 frames
21-23   19 frames
...[/FONT]

The BKB change was implemented awhile back on the f-air, and later removed since it did nothing to the shieldstun (also the 'compensated' increased KBG added actually ended up buffing the move's KO power...).

An actual recent change for the shieldstun on it was increasing the hitlag multiplier to 1.60x. This doesn't change the shieldstun itself, but rather reduces the advantage on block. Shields and the defender always use a 1.00x hitlag multiplier when hitting a shield, while the attacker uses whatever the hitlag mult of the hitbox is. In this case, when Peach hits a shield she is in hitlag/freeze frames longer than the defender (10 frames vs opponent's 6; reducing the block adv by 4 frames). The difference in hitlag of the attacker and defender is often referred to as shield hitlag differential (SHD).

The other ways to change block advantage would be to reduce the damage (would need to be reduced to 11 from 15 to reduce by 4 frames), or change the autocancel timing of the move. The hitlag method keeps the move mostly the same without drastically reducing dmg or the timing of the move.

 

[THO]

I'm a bit confused about this. So peaches fair has a shield stun of 15 frames because it does 15% damage in BP. So if it connects and the hitlag multiplier were 1.00x then there would be 15 frames of shield stun, however because peaches hitlag multiplier is 1.60. then there are still 15 frames of shield stun, its is just that peach now is in hitlag for 1.60x longer than she would be normally, thus reducing the shield advantage.

How do you know what the hitlag for a move is?
Also, is the hitlage multiplier 1.60x the same for all of peaches moves or just fair or just aerials or what?

BTW, thanks for the help in the first place, its good to actually know how this game works.

 

[shanus]

I'm a bit confused about this. So peaches fair has a shield stun of 15 frames because it does 15% damage in BP. So if it connects and the hitlag multiplier were 1.00x then there would be 15 frames of shield stun, however because peaches hitlag multiplier is 1.60. then there are still 15 frames of shield stun, its is just that peach now is in hitlag for 1.60x longer than she would be normally, thus reducing the shield advantage.

How do you know what the hitlag for a move is?
Also, is the hitlage multiplier 1.60x the same for all of peaches moves or just fair or just aerials or what?

BTW, thanks for the help in the first place, its good to actually know how this game works.

You can alter individual hitlag in PSA.

 

[Magus420]

Yeah. A 15 dmg hitbox gives 15 frames of shieldstun, and yes there's still 15 frames of stun except now 4 of those frames pass by while Peach hasn't yet begun moving.

The 1.60x is only on her f-air hitbox.


Hitlag in B+ can be calculated with:
Hitlag = floor{floor{[(D*0.385+5)*M*E]}*X}
or
Hitlag = floor{floor{[(D*0.390+5)*M*E]}*X}
*I haven't found any instances that narrow it down further between 0.385 and 0.390

D - Damage of hitbox
M - Hitlag multiplier stat of hitbox (peach's f-air is now 1.60; shields use 1.00)
E - Electric hitlag multiplier if electric element (this is normally 1.50x but in B+ is set to 1.00x)
X - Hitlag multiplier of B+'s hitlag code (currently set to 60%; 0.60x)

Doing this for Peach's f-air on hit or on block for Peach's hitlag it'd be:
Hitlag = floor{floor{[(15*0.385+5)*1.60*1.00]}*0.60}
Hitlag = floor{floor{17.24}*0.60}
Hitlag = floor{17*0.60}
Hitlag = floor{10.2}
Hitlag = 10 frames

Doing this for Peach's f-air for the hitlag of someone shielding it'd be:
Hitlag = floor{floor{[(15*0.385+5)*1.00*1.00]}*0.60}
Hitlag = floor{floor{10.775}*0.60}
Hitlag = floor{10*0.60}
Hitlag = floor{6}
Hitlag = 6 frames

 

[GHNeko]

How much of a frame advantage does she have now overall?

 

[THO]

So, if i do a fair and hit on the first frame it comes out (frame 17) then i now cannot do anything until frame 26 (ten frames later, or is it 27, i'm not exactly sure when the clock starts counting), and also, my opponent can't do anything until frame 22 (or 23).

So if I fair on shield my opponent can act 4 frames before I can.

Is that the right way to look at it.

 

[Magus420]

Theoretically up to +9 if you somehow manage to avoid hitting the shield until the very last hit frame, land on the frame directly afterwards which is the 1st autocancel frame and also get the soft landing. It'd be more like up to +7 with perfect timing and realistic positioning though. +7 means Peach can act 7 frames before they can.

They begin their shieldstun 4 frames before Peach starts moving, so when Peach completes hitlag they only have 11 frames of shieldstun left. After that Peach needs to reach the ground and complete landing lag (2 frames if in autocancel window and landing at a slow speed like from a non-fastfalled shorthop; 4 if AC and hard/high speed landing)

 

[GHNeko]

Ugh. Still enough for a grab. Blaaaaah.

 

[Magus420]

I don't think you realize just how many aerials have that large of a block advantage. There are quite a few as the shieldstun is very high in this game, and aerial landing quite low.

 

[THO]

So if I hit on frame 19, then autocancel on frame 20, they can't do anything for 9 frames after frame 19, so until frame 28. I'm sorry, I'm not understanding.
Is it that they are in stun for 10 frames after frame 19, and you can autocancel all your stun on frame 20, so you get from frame 20 to 28 to act (perhaps 9 frames).

So if that is right, question:
Does hard landing and soft landing have any effect on autocanceling (by the way, is hard landing with a fast fall and soft without?)?

 

[GHNeko]

I don't think you realize just how many aerials have that large of a block advantage. There are quite a few as the shieldstun is very high in this game, and aerial landing quite low.

And I think any move like that is dumb.

 

[THO]

I don't see why it is dumb. Some characters in a game are allowed to have an actually good on shield game. I think its only dumb if there is nothing that can be done about it and it seems like there are many answers to not being faired at a nearly perfect set up by the peach player (several include dashing in quickly before the peach lands, so that the top of the hit box (where the move hits first) will hit your shield, thus reducing the shield stun by up to 3 frames, making it not lead to a grab). Also, you can just not shield and use good spacing to punish the fair, not just try to shield grab your opponent all the time, which shouldn't actually be happening, unless they mess up.

 

[Magus420]

[SIZE=1][FONT=Lucida Console]Frame    Peach        Defender
1                    (Frame 1 of f-air)
...
19    Hitlag        Hitlag        (Last hit frame of f-air is 19)
20    Hitlag        Hitlag
21    Hitlag        Hitlag
22    Hitlag        Hitlag
23    Hitlag        Hitlag
24    Hitlag        Hitlag
25    Hitlag        Shieldstun
26    Hitlag        Shieldstun
27    Hitlag        Shieldstun
28    Hitlag        Shieldstun
29    Landing(Soft)    Shieldstun    (Lands during 1st AC frame of f-air which is 20)
30    Landing(Soft)    Shieldstun
31    Stand        Shieldstun    +1
32    Stand        Shieldstun    +2
33    Stand        Shieldstun    +3
34    Stand        Shieldstun    +4
35    Stand        Shieldstun    +5
36    Stand        Shieldstun    +6
37    Stand        Shieldstun    +7
38    Stand        Shieldstun    +8
39    Stand        Shieldstun    +9
40    Stand        Shield[/FONT][/SIZE]

If you were to FF into it, you'd be in landing lag on 31 and 32 as well in that example, and the adv would be +7. This example is pretty unrealistic though, and you'd almost always be hitting their shield by like frame 17 or so of the f-air's swing and would need to delay the landing by 2 frames to get the AC (and would get 2 less adv as a result).

 

[THO]

That helps so much, thank you, I had no idea that the hitlag stacks with the shieldstun, or with with the landing (soft or hard). This is very very good information. Thanks you.

One more question, if this is posted somewhere really obvious i apologize,
What are the landing lags on the soft and hard land? (is it 2 for soft and 4 for hard, or something near there)

 

[GHNeko]

I don't see why it is dumb. Some characters in a game are allowed to have an actually good on shield game. I think its only dumb if there is nothing that can be done about it and it seems like there are many answers to not being faired at a nearly perfect set up by the peach player (several include dashing in quickly before the peach lands, so that the top of the hit box (where the move hits first) will hit your shield, thus reducing the shield stun by up to 3 frames, making it not lead to a grab). Also, you can just not shield and use good spacing to punish the fair, not just try to shield grab your opponent all the time, which shouldn't actually be happening, unless they mess up.

I just think kill moves with shield pressure potential like that with so like lag that allows you to do nearly everything in your moveset are dumb as it nulls pretty much all your defensive options and the only way to beat it is through offensive, and only when your range is long and quick enough to actually beat the move before it comes out.

And now its reversable giving Peach the ability to send you in any direction she wants you go, making fair better near ledges. So yea. I think its dumb.

 

[Magus420]

Yeah, Peach along with most others have 2 soft and 4 hard landing lag. Don't know of anyone with more than 2 on soft, but Charizard, DK, Ganon, Link, Lucas, Pit, and Snake have 5 on hard landing, and Bowser & Dedede have 6.

 

[GHNeko]

ALR affects both hard and soft landing right?

 

[Magus420]

ALR is for aerial attacks, so no it doesn't affect either one.

 

[GHNeko]

Right right. Because because the landing has to do with animations after the attack, right?

 

[Magus420]

Aerials have their own landing animations, which is the animation that is modified. When you land while the aerial attack lag bit is true (outside the AC window/s) you get the attack landing animation. When you land while it's false (within the AC window/s) you go into the normal air to ground landing animation which have low speed and high speed impact animations which are unchanged.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Guys, I've made a Peach pac that has slightly increased landing lag on all of her aerials (except for fair). I believe nair had 6 frames and went to 8 frames of landing lag. Uair, Nair, and Dair all had 5 frames, and I increased them to 7 frames of landing lag. Now the ALR pretty well mimics Melee autocancel frames. basically, they all had less lag than L-cancel frames, so I made it a little more balanced out. download link in a sec.


EDIT: here it is. http://www.megaupload.com/?d=X4IATRU0

 

[WheelOfFish]

Uhhhhh... changing Peach's ALR without changing the rest of the cast's ALR is not at all balanced. It's stupid.

 

[GHNeko]

Considering you didnt even touch Fair lol.

 

[THO]

I'm confused, what is the purpose of you making this PAC.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Yeah.....I'm still working on the rest of the cast....


and the point of adding lag to the aerials is so that they aren't basically just hard landings.


and I'll make sure to get her fair too.

 

[crazycrackers]

Hmm...I think I'll just stick with 5.0

 

[SymphonicSage12]

it's ok. I Don't really expect anyone to use it. :V

 

[WheelOfFish]

I just managed to do the weirdest wall of pain with Peach ever. It was something along the lines of b-air, b-air, u-air, side-b. Poor DI but I think I just found a use for side-b.

New avatar.
http://Robotpencil.deviantart.com/art/Peach-118039299

 

[BLI7ZARD]

i keep following all of these tutorials but i keep getting lost on the texture hack ones because one one dumb thing. I downloaded the SD premade brawl+ package from brawlplus/net and it already has a RSBE01.gct in the codes folder. Then during a texture hack tutorial it told me to get the code manager and put in this code but it tells me to save it as RSBE01.gct and I already have one in the codes folder already
So do i need the texture hack codes from the tutorial OR
Is it included in the brawl+ premade pack from brawl+.net Or
Do i have to rename it so i could have both.
Also when i replace the RSBE01 that was already on their with the texture hack code RSBE01
brawl+ doesnt work anymore SO WHAT DO I DO

 

[SymphonicSage12]

um...you don't need to do the code manager thing. the code you need to replace textures is already included in the brawl+ gct. Please stop spamming on this board.

 

[BLI7ZARD]

Really....

um...you don't need to do the code manager thing. the code you need to replace textures is already included in the brawl+ gct. Please stop spamming on this board.

Im not spamming the boards i just had a question i needed to get answered and everyone kept telling me to post somewhere else thanks for the answer. "Stop Spamming" REALLY..... LOL its called a QUESTION not "SPAMMING" yes maybe i should of posted this question somewhere else first but i didnt its not a big deal.

 

[Fones]

Im not spamming the boards i just had a question i needed to get answered and everyone kept telling me to post somewhere else thanks for the answer. "Stop Spamming" REALLY..... LOL its called a QUESTION not "SPAMMING" yes maybe i should of posted this question somewhere else first but i didnt its not a big deal.

It's not related to peach, so it's offtopic, so it's spam. You should've asked here http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225238. But yeah the texture code is included in the newest Brawl+ GCT.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Sorry for being mean, but I was just getting really tired of the elevating levels of noobness on this board. (READ: I am getting angry at myself)

 

[BLI7ZARD]

Sorry for some reason someone told me to post it hear i didnt know i was technically "spamming" it didnt seem completely off topic i use peach lol. Next time ill spend 5 hours trying to find out where to post stuff. Sheesh i feel like im at gun point cause i posted in the wrong place.