• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

Praxis

Smash Hero
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
6,165
Location
Spokane, WA
Hehe, ty :) I'm something of a Snake eater.
I firmly believe that Peach is one of if not the best suited characters in the game for fighting Snake. If Peach isn't at an advantage in this fight, then no one in the game is (which is actually very possible, Snake's certainly one of if not the best character in the game).

Peach & DK would be my picks to fight a Snake. Since my Peach is better than my DK, I'll go with Peach.
 

stealthsushi

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 7, 2008
Messages
198
Location
BAY AREA, California
Is it possible to chain together F-Throws on Snake at low percents given the relatively low knockback combined with Snake's heavy weight? I know its possible on characters like Ganondorf, and it could be useful in giving Peach another edge in the Snake matchup.
 

Praxis

Smash Hero
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
6,165
Location
Spokane, WA
I've seen people chaingrab Snake CPUs but I don't know about real people.
Frankly, though, I would never get close enough on foot to go for a grab. He'd tilt you long before.
 

Excel_Zero

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
1,201
Location
Puerto Rico
Praxis, sorry to say, but that Snake player wasn't very good at all. I'd prefer for you to get some videos against the Snake you said you play a lot, since he was the best Snake somewhere. Thanks anyways for the video.
 

Praxis

Smash Hero
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
6,165
Location
Spokane, WA
Remember that the match was on WiFi, makes us both look worse. I don't have any recorded matches vs Kamaji- they always run too long :( I'll get some videos next time I play him but that might not be for some time.

The video still shows the strategy, and the strategy works. Look at the little details, like how I beat the Snakedash at 2:30-2:40.
 

rm88

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Messages
830
NNID
Rm88Go
3DS FC
5241-1973-5614
How about Ike or DK? >_<
 

deepseadiva

Bodybuilding Magical Girl
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
8,001
Location
CO
3DS FC
1779-0766-2622
Preferably Pit vs. Peach. Most annoying match-up EVER.

Though I think MetaKnight would fit as this week's. Goes with the supposed tier list.
 

EdreesesPieces

Smash Bros Before Hos
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Messages
7,680
Location
confirmed, sending supplies.
NNID
EdreesesPieces
So I want to wrap it up. There is a LOT of disparity on this matchup, I don't know what percentage to put. Can we be okay with Snake 60 Peach 40? Prax would you be willing to mold to it? I know you feel Peach has got the advantage, and perhaps its because you do know what to do right, but a lot of people do have trouble and have thrown numbers for Snake's advantage. I want to hurry up and move on to Metaknight.

I'm putting it at 40-60 is everyone okay with it? I want general agreement before I put ANYTHING. I put it already because i'm a little late moving onto metaknight and I need to get it set up because I don't have time over the next few days.

PLEASE let me know if you want me to highlight anything from the thread discussion into that respective character's "summary" on this page. I'm not always sure whats the best advice and whats not so help point it out to me for me to highlight
 

Villi

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Messages
1,370
Location
California
I'm late on the discussion but I would agree with 60-40, as I think the match up is about even leaning in Snake's favor. Snake's shield-drop to utilt works as a fine counter between dairs. An equally patient Snake isn't going to give up control to a camping Peach so easily. A Snake who knows how to play against Peach will win -- when the surprise factor is gone, Peach's strategies are counterable.
 

Peachkid

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
2,171
Location
In a museum
NNID
Peachkid
3DS FC
0791-2008-8754
how about we go to another matchup now i think its been over a week. but i kinda agree with 60-40, its a hard matchup even when u r paitent. maybe it can be a bit higher like 55-45 or sumthin like that (maybe 56.5-46.5 for the mindgames 0.o) and i love my new avatar. srry bout the randomness but i couldnt help it XD
 

EdreesesPieces

Smash Bros Before Hos
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Messages
7,680
Location
confirmed, sending supplies.
NNID
EdreesesPieces
It'd be nice to have Snake mainers discuss to but we kind of want to move on with these matchups. Like I posted in the original post, if you a problem with previously arrived at conclusions or results, there is NO problem with mentoining it in a later week even if that character is already discussed. The weekly thing is more of a guideline/focus to get the bulk of things done per character, and not some restrictive rule. If snake mainers later see this and have things to add they can be free to do so, but let's move on to Metaknight.

As for Metaknight.

60-40 Peach.

No, I'm not crazy. I have loads and loads of experience in this matchup. Metaknight is the character I practice against the most with an amazing Metaknight player named Edge. The best in Cali I'd say easily.

The matchup is in Peach's favor if Peach knows the matchup real well. Even if Meta does know it, there is less he can do. In fact, once Metaknight realizes what Peach can do, the Meta backs off, plays more cautious, and it really takes away from the aggressive rush Meta is good at.

Here's why.

-Down Air out prioritizes shuttle loop. You should not get gimped by this move. Just down air when you feel it coming. If he didn't use it, he can't punish your down air because you can air dodge once your down air is complete. That means he has nearly ZERO window to get you with that move while you are above by the time you land. (You want to fast fall your down airs)

-His foward air does only 7% at full power when all hits connect. As annoying and as much priority as it has, this move does nothing. When you hit him with a forward air at full power, in contrast it does like 25 percent or something arouond there. Meta is working much harder to rack up damage, just because you take more hits does not mean you are not winning the match.

-His smashes are not that strong if you can DI them properly. Metaknight gimps people who are not used to him because they don't see his downsmash coming and it kills them because it sends at a nasty angle and kills pretty early. HOWEVER, because you float, you should be ready to get by these and always be ready to DI when you land, just in case he pulls it out. It's a big advantage and the fact that Peach can float really negates the surprise power this move has. You can survive it to god awful high percentages if you DI fully and properly upwards. Smash it, too. C stick DI. Try everything. You live long time.

-Turnips bug him, so he really cannot wait you out or play defensively against you. He can only rush.

-Peach has several moves to combat whorenado. I suggest rolling back before initiating any of these if he is close to you when starting up the nado. These moves are your toad, forward smash, and up tilt. If he is RIGHT in front of you when he does it, forward tilt will knock him out of it. Learn this reflex.

-Up air can kill metaknight early as a *****. and if spaces properly, he cannot down air you through it. This is a good surprise move and you will ALWAYS have it saved it up at max power because nobody ever uses it. Wait til meta is at 95% and use it. If you can nail it he will die off the top.

-Peach's weakness of never killing dissapears against Meta. Forward tilt even kills him at 130% range at max power. Keep that in mind.

-You can tech his grabs because Peach is at the right floaty/heaviness level. If he grabs to forward throw, tech behind him. He should not be able to follow up.

At a high level I think this matchup is in Peach's favor 60-40. I used to think it was 20-80 in meta's favor when I first tried the matchup for a few weeks, but after knowing it well, I'm convinced Peach's got this and is one of the best characters to use in the game against meta.
 

Praxis

Smash Hero
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
6,165
Location
Spokane, WA
As a closing comment to the Snake discussion:

Having explored the matchup extensively lately, Edrees, you're probably right. I've developed a specialty playstyle that only works for Peach that completely counters Snake, but from a purely character perspective, we're talking about a fight where Character A dies at 80% and kills at 200% and has the poorer recovery. Realistically, any match where you have to do 3x more damage to your opponent is a match where you are at a disadvantage. I've simply developed a playstyle that lets me do just that against Snakes. >-)

So yeah, 60-40 is fair...actually, it might even be 70-30. Snake has a clear advantage, with that simplistic perspective.
 

Praxis

Smash Hero
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
6,165
Location
Spokane, WA
As for Metaknight.

60-40 Peach.

No, I'm not crazy.
You're crazy. You are FREAKING CRAZY. This is my worst matchup :urg::(

Snake:
I know you feel Peach has got the advantage, and perhaps its because you do know what to do right,
Metaknight:
The matchup is in Peach's favor if Peach knows the matchup real well.
DOUBLE STANDARD, I DO SAY!


EDIT: Having read it, excellent advice :) I still put this to Meta's favor though. He's one of the only characters in the game that outprioritizes Peach in the air with most attacks, he's got stronger killing moves, better recovery, and faster smashes. Both are equally light. While it's closer than the Snake match- I'd still say it's not in Peach's favor, just requires a lot of practice.
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
4,861
Location
Toot Toot thrills in Green Hills (England, UK)
NNID
RicardoAvocado
Nice advice there. Oh and good job on making this thread Edreese...The Peach section really needed one.

I have a few questions concerning Meta though...How do you avoid his tornado? I know you've said stuff like roll and fsmash but I alway seem to get caught up in it and off the air leaving me a bit helpless :urg: and (this is going to sound so stupid) but how do you DI properly out of his attacks? Whenever I get hit I franticly tap the opposite direction I'm flying...is that right?

I agree with you that Turnips mess Meta Knight up and that Toad works a treat against most of his moves. I find that Glide Tossing upwards around the place works very well in putting off Meta when he's faling down. Reverse Toading is also very useful as it catches Meta off guard when he thinks he's got me nailed simply because I'm facing the other way :chuckle: I'd just like to say that if Meta Knight gets you up in the air, then for goodness sake get back on the ground because his Usmash and Utilt are *****s and Dair, or any aerial for that matter, won't work against it.

As for the 60-40 match up in favour of Peach...I'd need to play a good Meta Knight but I'd say that's fair since Peach can kill Meta quite easily due to his weight and size

(Oh and I know we've only just got onto Meta but could I suggest that our next match up disscusion be on someone like Pit? Seriously, that angel is VERY annoying and can kill Peach really easily)
 

rm88

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Messages
830
NNID
Rm88Go
3DS FC
5241-1973-5614
In my personal experience, Meta is not nearly as bad as Snake. You can actually outrange/outpriorize him, spam turnips and Dair, and kill him at relatively low percentages. Maybe I haven't faced an awesome MK yet, but right now I don't see him as a threat... at least not as a Snake-like threat. In my opinion, Metaknight is a really, really good character, but not a broken one.
 

Diddy2k8

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Messages
58
Location
Wyncote,PA
i have more problems with snake then i do with metaknight. Not to say metaknight isn't hard to fight cause he is But meta is just as light as peach. When i fight metaknight i used a wait and see approach. I'll spam turnips to try and stop meta from rushing. Thats when meta is at his deadliest. When he rushes u. When u get metaknight to slow down on rushing the rest is easy. down air works wonders against metaknight. Combo when u get a opening and then get the hell out of there. imo metaknight is one of the easier chars to land a sweetspotted up smash.
 

deepseadiva

Bodybuilding Magical Girl
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
8,001
Location
CO
3DS FC
1779-0766-2622
Yay! I played a MetaKnight today, and even though I lost most of the matches - I would honestly play MetaKnight over Snake or Pit any day. We can actually freakin KILL the little batwinged-freak!

Uair! Death.
Usmash! Death.
Fairs! Oh, ah, err... not so much. If only because it's so punishable if missed.
Ftilt! Death!

I had fun. :joyful:
 

BoTastic!

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 24, 2006
Messages
3,232
Location
Chicago Heights
NNID
BoScotty
Toad isn't too bad against MK since he's aways attacking. Requires timing and knowing the mk player I'd rather face mk than snake as well.
 

EdreesesPieces

Smash Bros Before Hos
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Messages
7,680
Location
confirmed, sending supplies.
NNID
EdreesesPieces
(Oh and I know we've only just got onto Meta but could I suggest that our next match up disscusion be on someone like Pit? Seriously, that angel is VERY annoying and can kill Peach really easily)
I'm doing the characters Peach mains complain about the most in higher frequency. That means ROB or Game and Watch or someone like that would be next. Sorry. You can make a thread on help against Pit and later when we do Pit I'll snippet stuff out from it.

Ill do a shameless plug though: if you need help on Pit that much, see if my videos against him will help?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlWaUZ2hk7Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxEr-E1gQ84
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfd-agoAV7U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyvEfoMX03g (lost this one, so look at this one at what not to do ahah)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZEtpBCFMMc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsuY4s3sy2w

That should satisfy you maybe? Haha.
 

EdreesesPieces

Smash Bros Before Hos
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Messages
7,680
Location
confirmed, sending supplies.
NNID
EdreesesPieces
You won't be clocking anything up just asking for some Pit advice, there aren't enough strategy threads around here if you ask me. Hehe. The idea of this thread is so people don't make those threads AFTER we already have those discussions.
 

Praxis

Smash Hero
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
6,165
Location
Spokane, WA
ROB and G&W are my biggest problems at the moment :/ But i've yet to fight a good Pit or Wario or Zelda.
 

Gea

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Messages
4,236
Location
Houston, Texas
I know a trick DKs do against Meta that can possibly work for Peach as well. When you see them gliding towards the stage and over the edge, start with a dash away then quickly run towards them and JC a usmash under them. They are trying to set up the glide attack to get you but... well... turn around! It doesn't work all the time and smart players catch on fast, but hell, that's a good way to get a kill in.

Question for you Edrees. I remember you saying that you loved using dsmash against Meta. How do you set up for it? Dair FF into dsmash or...? Usually the metas I play just space themselves with tilts on the ground, and if I float *at all* they nado.

Also: ffing a nair RIGHT in the middle of the nado can cancel it. Sometimes a FF dair will as well, but rarely ever.
 

EdreesesPieces

Smash Bros Before Hos
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Messages
7,680
Location
confirmed, sending supplies.
NNID
EdreesesPieces
I set up for it by using it when Meta is going to hit me but jumping or rolling or running away won't allow me to evade the attack. An example is when I've fallen onto the ground and didn't tech. I'll simply get up and downsmash. He often waits for you to do get up attack, or roll or get up and side dodge or something. If you simply get up, and downsmash, he will get hit by it. His shield almost never lasts through a downsmash. Another example is after his glide attack. I'll shield it and if he's close enough to the ground I'll downsmash (shield grabbing doesn't always work because he ends up behind you)

I like your trick for dealing with the glide attack better! That's smart! The thing I love best about it is if they DO get hit by an upsmash for doing it, they'll be more careful while doing glide attack, and it'll set up for other ways to hit him out of it.

Other times I get downsmash in are I'll just short hop back air, land behind him and downsmash. Oh, another time is when I've shielded his tornado, and he lands behind me or just a bit out of range. Sometimes I'll sidestep an attack of his and follow it up with one. It's not that any of these are common, but if you add together the bunch, I end up using the move every now and then unlike with other matchups. By no means is it more effective than other strategies against him.

Hey - so what if they use Nado? It does like 5% damage. Big whoop. If you hit him with a single back air it will do like four times that damage. Four nados = one back air. Don't let that move get to you, it does absolutely nothing. If he gets you in the air with nado, so be it. Escape, pull out a turnip, set yourself up to do 5 times the amount of damage with your next hit. Heh. What's important is that he can't follow it up with another hit, which he will if you lose your cool or try to punish him too much for the move. I think it's easier to fight a Meta who uses that move a lot - it allows you to reset and set up an approach agian. If he hit you with an up air or something else, you're in a bad posit
 

deepseadiva

Bodybuilding Magical Girl
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
8,001
Location
CO
3DS FC
1779-0766-2622
When you see them gliding towards the stage and over the edge, start with a dash away then quickly run towards them and JC a usmash under them.
Explain this "JC" terminology. :confused:
 

Niko_K

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
4,797
Location
Oshawa 905
Edreeses Im going to have to disagree with you on the MK matchup thing. In my experience there are two kinds of MK players.

1) The MK that aspires to be the best and works on every sort of move connection, crazy combo'ing and has an all around great air and ground game.

2) Spam Tornado.

At the Eastern Canadian tournament that just past I had been knocked out by the second style of MK player. It really bugged me seeing as how I could've easily placed top 7 out of 70 but fell to 13th. It could be my lack of knowledge on what to do to counter the nado, but if you don't hit MK right at the very start of the nado I'm close to positive Peach has no other option to counter to nado but to run away and punish the lag (assuming you don't get sucked up.) During our set I literally went through my entire selection of moves, tried multiple DI combinations, though I just couldn't get around it.

I'm not talking about 1 or 2 nado's in a row, this was at least 8 or 9. Since Peach falls so slow if she is to get sucked up by the nado the MK will simply keep the nado close to the ground, thus leaving you punishable in the air with no options to try and interupt the nado except MAYBE dair.

If you have any advice on what to do against this spammy MK playstyle please enlighten me.
 

BoTastic!

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 24, 2006
Messages
3,232
Location
Chicago Heights
NNID
BoScotty
Edreeses Im going to have to disagree with you on the MK matchup thing. In my experience there are two kinds of MK players.

1) The MK that aspires to be the best and works on every sort of move connection, crazy combo'ing and has an all around great air and ground game.

2) Spam Tornado.

At the Eastern Canadian tournament that just past I had been knocked out by the second style of MK player. It really bugged me seeing as how I could've easily placed top 7 out of 70 but fell to 13th. It could be my lack of knowledge on what to do to counter the nado, but if you don't hit MK right at the very start of the nado I'm close to positive Peach has no other option to counter to nado but to run away and punish the lag (assuming you don't get sucked up.) During our set I literally went through my entire selection of moves, tried multiple DI combinations, though I just couldn't get around it.

I'm not talking about 1 or 2 nado's in a row, this was at least 8 or 9. Since Peach falls so slow if she is to get sucked up by the nado the MK will simply keep the nado close to the ground, thus leaving you punishable in the air with no options to try and interupt the nado except MAYBE dair.

If you have any advice on what to do against this spammy MK playstyle please enlighten me.

Can toad's spores hit mk during mach tornado?
 

DeuceBlade

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
2,291
Location
New York City
Edreeses Im going to have to disagree with you on the MK matchup thing. In my experience there are two kinds of MK players.

1) The MK that aspires to be the best and works on every sort of move connection, crazy combo'ing and has an all around great air and ground game.

2) Spam Tornado.

At the Eastern Canadian tournament that just past I had been knocked out by the second style of MK player. It really bugged me seeing as how I could've easily placed top 7 out of 70 but fell to 13th. It could be my lack of knowledge on what to do to counter the nado, but if you don't hit MK right at the very start of the nado I'm close to positive Peach has no other option to counter to nado but to run away and punish the lag (assuming you don't get sucked up.) During our set I literally went through my entire selection of moves, tried multiple DI combinations, though I just couldn't get around it.

I'm not talking about 1 or 2 nado's in a row, this was at least 8 or 9. Since Peach falls so slow if she is to get sucked up by the nado the MK will simply keep the nado close to the ground, thus leaving you punishable in the air with no options to try and interupt the nado except MAYBE dair.

If you have any advice on what to do against this spammy MK playstyle please enlighten me.
Do you spam turnips during these types of matches?
 

Niko_K

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
4,797
Location
Oshawa 905
I generally try to outcamp the MK since it seems to be the only viable option, I mix it up with turnips and ftilt.

I tried using toad multiple times but got eaten by the F5 each time.
 

DeuceBlade

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
2,291
Location
New York City
MK is to fast, and doesn't have enough lag to counter most of the time... so I suppose you should incorporate more slaps to stop him when approaching, then maybe follow with a dsmash or ftilt...

I wish peach's fsmash wasn't random.
 

Gea

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Messages
4,236
Location
Houston, Texas
Toad will *sometimes* work about cancelling the tornado. It is more consistent with cancelling side B.

And thanks for the Dsmash tips, I do some of those (bair -> dsmash) but alot of those I just never thought about. Awesome.
 

deepseadiva

Bodybuilding Magical Girl
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
8,001
Location
CO
3DS FC
1779-0766-2622
Jump cancel is when you jump while you're dashing then you cancel the jump with a move like an Upsmash.
Does this move you or cancel the lag or something? It sounds like your doing just a regular usmash in a complicated manner.
 

Gea

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Messages
4,236
Location
Houston, Texas
No... it allows you to do a Usmash out of a run. Like if you are running and usmash, the whole reason you *can* is because of jump cancelling.
 

deepseadiva

Bodybuilding Magical Girl
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
8,001
Location
CO
3DS FC
1779-0766-2622
That sounds pretty useful - I rarely land an usmash. I think I might have done one of these by accident today...
Is there some sort of tutorial somewhere? If I can nail this down, MetaKnight's stupid glide thing is screwed. :chuckle:
 

Morrigan

/!\<br>\¡/
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
18,681
No... it allows you to do a Usmash out of a run. Like if you are running and usmash, the whole reason you *can* is because of jump cancelling.
Wait what? Are you saying the ONLY way to Usmash out of a run is by cancelling a jump? Because that's not true. :ohwell:
 
Top Bottom