Peach's Pillar

[BigRick]

It is godly. You just have to mix it up and know when to toss in some d-smashes or just grab after the nair. Mix it up!!!!

And Peach won't be the new top tier character to use. This just adds to her pressure game and makes her offense alot more solid.

Instead of calling it a peach pillar it should just be called nair mix-ups/lead ins. Because that's all it really is. Using the nair and then going from there to pressure your opponent and keep them guessing. But if they guess right then Peach is gonna take a beating.

Yeah but if this thing only becomes mixups instead of a safe pressure string... then it isn't very revolutionnary because that's what we were already doing with Fair all this time.

Good thing is that I never knew that you could do it with FC'd Nair, cause I thought that you didn't get any frame adv when your opponent blocked that.

 

[Emblem Lord]

There are no completely safe pressure strings in Smash. Only single safe attacks.

 

[Samochan]

There are no completely safe pressure strings in Smash. Only single safe attacks.

*cough*Fox's jc shines and falco's shffle dair shine shffle dair ect.*cough*

Those two are safe if one can do them with enough speed and precision.

 

[Magus420]

*cough*Fox's jc shines and falco's shffle dair shine shffle dair ect.*cough*

Those two are safe if one can do them with enough speed and precision.

The latter has an opening after the shine and before the d-air that a good amount of chars are able to punish with the right timing.

 

[Emblem Lord]

No human can jc shine with enough precision to be completely safe so that's a moot point.

 

[Powda193]

Yeah but if this thing only becomes mixups instead of a safe pressure string... then it isn't very revolutionnary because that's what we were already doing with Fair all this time.
.

i agree... this certainly does add some offense to peach's game, but it is nothing that will shake up the smash scene. you will certainly have to mix it up to prevent being punished. you cannot just FC Nair into jabs and just repeat that over and over... you will have to throw in grabs or dsmashes every once in a while after the Nair to make this effective.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Other times you will want to DD after the nair or just wait for a sopt dodge or a roll and then punish. If you always slap, grab, or d-smash after the nair then your opponent will just buffer a roll.

But Peaches mix-up game is not to be scoffed at. She has one of the best mix-up games out of the entire cast. If she was faster and better able to punish rollers she might have had the very best mix-up game.

 

[Cia]

jiano should not have been able to grab XIF if he was doing the pillar correctly (not to say anythin negative seeing as how he is probably the best at it) but if you perform the pillar with precise timing, the opponent shouldn't be able even leave their sheild. with the exception of about 2-3 frames, and that's still not enough time to attack. it does increase her offensive game dramatically.. but techniques will be learned against this as with any other strategy (SHL, WoP etc..) but we should abuse it's unknown factor while we still can and learn variations so that opponents have more difficulty getting accustomed to it.

 

[Emblem Lord]

The 2-3 frames is more then enough to roll or spot dodge. Some characters could up b.

I think Fox could JC shine.

Plus the thing that hurts Peach is her inability to set this up continuosly. She isn't fast enough to frequently get in her opponents face and force them to shield.

The nairs may be able to keep people in thier shield. The stun time of the nair would be long enough that she can float again and then nair again, before an attack comes out, but thier is other stuff opponents can do. They could light shield and the nair would just push them away and then they could retaliate. If Peach decides to do something else after the nair she becomes less predictable, but she is more open to punishment.

No technique is invincible. That's why I said she ahs to mix it up.

 

[Ryan-K]

If it's 2 or 3 frames they can still buffer a roll, jump or spot dodge.

And yeah Emblem Lord is right mix up games are extremely important, plus alot of smart players will tend to play more evasive vs peach as opposed to shield camping.

 

[CanISmash]

lol i doubt someone is going to get perfect timing down to 2-3 frames to get out of it. im going to go try it out.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Buffering rolls or spot dodges means you don't need perfect timing. Only the Peach would need perfect timing.

 

[Lord Knight]

It's not a pillar. We should call it the CHOPPER.

 

[Magus420]

Where are you getting 2-3 from? That doesn't sound right at all really.

I've looked into this same idea a number of months ago, and from what I remember every char that doesn't have a slow grab can shieldgrab 100% frame perfect FC n-airs. Jabs between them can interrupt the grab before it can come out, but they themselves are really easy to shieldgrab regardless of how you mix them up if they know what they're doing. Luckily most people don't though, lol.

 

[Cia]

i'll try and post a guide sometime soon about the pillar, and different variations and mindgames, but just to clarify somethings:

you have to fastfall the nair into slaps if you want an effective sheild stun, but there are still 2 or 3 frames where you can roll or with some characters sheild grab.

quoted in reference to magus' post

 

[BigRick]

Plus the thing that hurts Peach is her inability to set this up continuosly. She isn't fast enough to frequently get in her opponents face and force them to shield.

lol that's basically how I play against Peach, runaway from her...

cause her pressure game is too good, no need to deal with that bull****

 

[Magus420]

Oh ok. I believe you're misunderstanding that though, because I'm pretty sure he meant a 2-3 frame window where they are able to roll, and with some characters they can get a grab off... not that there are actually only 2-3 frames not in shieldstun.

Shield stun:

N-air - 8
Slap(1) - 3
Slap(2) - 2


Lag until next action after it hits:

N-air - 5 - [there's 1 before you can land + 4 landlag]
Slap(1) - 13 - [7 if going into Slap(2)]
Slap(2) - 13


Startup (comes out on __ ):

FC N-air - 10 - [5 jump startup + 1 air + 1 float + 3 n-air]
Slap(1) - 2
Slap(2) - 3

D-Smash - 5
Grab - 7


When done absolutely frame perfect:

FC n-air -> FC n-air - Gives them 6 open frames out of shield stun before it comes out. This allows the 7 frame grabbers to get the grab out at the exact same time the n-air comes out (aka you get grabbed since they take priority).

FC n-air -> Slap(1) - Hits 2 frames before they are out of the n-air's shield stun.

Slap(1) -> FC n-air - Gives them 19 frames out of shield stun before it comes out.

Slap(1) -> Slap(2) - Gives them 6 frames out of shield stun before it comes out. Yes, it's actually possible to shieldgrab the 1st slap before the 2nd is able to hit

Slap(2) -> FC n-air - Gives them 20 frames out of shield stun before it comes out.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Thanks Magus. Not even I have such extensive knowledge of frames.

 

[XIF]

me and jiano never played a pound2, the only matches i've ever played with him ever were the 2 in FC pools. I should've gone for other things, and after the first slaps connected i should've tried a nair slap dash dance, or something. But w/e its never gonna be perfect.

But Yeah, mixing it up is a must in order to keep pressure, its a guessing game, but your safest bet in FC nair combinations is nair to d smash, since its almost always a garunteed sheild poke. In teams me and green faced speedn and viperboy at FC pools and that maneuver won us the match vs speedn's sheik at the end.

 

[BigRick]

Peach is like the Zangief of smash.

Let that b**** get too close and bad things gon' happen lol

 

[Cia]

WOWOWOW @ all that frame data. thanks for clearing that up.

------------

also, there's going to be a major tournament in NY this september. the only information I have is that it will be a 2 day event, so I encourage a lot of Peach players to attend if possible. (just so we can piss everyone off :D)

 

[slikvik]

WOWOWOW @ all that frame data. thanks for clearing that up.

------------

also, there's going to be a major tournament in NY this september. the only information I have is that it will be a 2 day event, so I encourage a lot of Peach players to attend if possible. (just so we can piss everyone off :D)

Vanz sig is too good. and about the tournament, I will be there. We should team

 

[Shwn]

Lets see a video of this.

 

[Cia]

slikvik- actually, we might be able to team. my partner isn't sure if he can make it or not. he'll give me notice in a few weeks, so I can let you know by than.

also, there are a bunch of NJ players coming to a weekly tournament tomorrow (IHNC, TSA, and The Tunes) and many other players. So if you're anywhere near the light rail and path trains, you should definitely try to come. IHNC and The Tunes will be having a crew battle :D

 

[thesage]

XIF was playing on MY TV. I win.

 

[Cia]

lolz. did anyone get any vidz from fc or oc3?? (peach related vidz??)

 

[Rain(ame)]

It looks like I'm going to have to train extra hard, >.< I've got the time now since I horridly sprained my ankle at AnimeNEXT. -_- No dancing and b-ball for me.

 

[cba]

It's not a pillar. We should call it the CHOPPER.

i'm still sticking with CondomBuster

 

[Rockin]

i'm still sticking with CondomBuster

**** right, same here XD

 

[Cia]

LoLz.. sooo random

 

[Magus420]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjHJKJaDtso

doop doop

lol at the humanly impossible float cancels

I made that vid awhile ago using AR, but I can actually do that kind of rapid FCing for real now once I warm up a bit and get the right 'flow' to them going. Back then I didn't think it was possible to do them that fast either really.

I also cross them up, dash away to dash back in or DJ backwards -> float back in, and mix in FC b, u, d, d->u/f-airs among other things at the same kind of pace. If I remember I'll try to get some matches recorded with me doing it. It's pretty beastly looking

 

[technomancer]

The 2-3 frames is more then enough to roll or spot dodge. Some characters could up b.

I think Fox could JC shine.

Plus the thing that hurts Peach is her inability to set this up continuosly. She isn't fast enough to frequently get in her opponents face and force them to shield.

The nairs may be able to keep people in thier shield. The stun time of the nair would be long enough that she can float again and then nair again, before an attack comes out, but thier is other stuff opponents can do. They could light shield and the nair would just push them away and then they could retaliate. If Peach decides to do something else after the nair she becomes less predictable, but she is more open to punishment.

No technique is invincible. That's why I said she ahs to mix it up.

Incorrect. They would be hit out of the roll/spotdodge before it came out; all of these moves have a startup. A perfect, perfect peach pillar is inescapable without getting hit unless you have an invulerable up-b that starts on frame 2 or better, or a PERFECT jc shine.

Any not so perfects can be escaped by buffer rolling.

 

[Magus420]

Incorrect. They would be hit out of the roll/spotdodge before it came out; all of these moves have a startup. A perfect, perfect peach pillar is inescapable without getting hit unless you have an invulerable up-b that starts on frame 2 or better, or a PERFECT jc shine.

Any not so perfects can be escaped by buffer rolling.

Read my post a few posts down from his. It's more than 2-3 frames, so yes they can roll without getting hit as well as some other stuff during parts of it no matter how perfect it's done.

 

[Cia]

I made that vid awhile ago using AR, but I can actually do that kind of rapid FCing for real now once I warm up a bit and get the right 'flow' to them going. Back then I didn't think it was possible to do them that fast either really.

I also cross them up, dash away to dash back in or DJ backwards -> float back in, and mix in FC b, u, d, d->u/f-airs among other things at the same kind of pace. If I remember I'll try to get some matches recorded with me doing it. It's pretty beastly looking

that would be the best ever. my laptop got dropped (lmao) and until I get it replaced I will not be able to post examples of the pillar. but if anyone has a vid that demonstrates the technique, I URGE you to please post a link. Thankz

 

[Magus420]

What I do is something pretty different than this though. I rely a lot more on crossing up their shield when doing the FC airs than using slaps as mixups. I also use FC b-airs about as much as FC n-airs.

 

[Emblem Lord]

OMG, someone else that knows about cross-ups and uses fighting game terminology in smashboards.

Magus makes me happy.

 

[Rain(ame)]

lol, well, so long as you're happy, that's the point, right? Oh god....I just realized I haven't played Smash in soooo long. I should pick it up and fast -_-. It's work, work I tell you. I've been away from Peach for too long. She'll start to lose her sync with me, lol.

 

[Cia]

OMG, someone else that knows about cross-ups and uses fighting game terminology in smashboards.

Magus makes me happy.

You have to let me know if there are ever any smash events in scotch plains. I'm here right now bored as hell.. Lolz

 

[Emblem Lord]

lol. You got family in Scotch Plains or something? Well, I'm here at my house right now. Chilling out. My crewmate from TSA will here in like less then 2 hours. We are going to practice alone.

I'm also free tommorrow around 6:00 pm. PM me if you want to play sometime.

 

[Cia]

Lolz. k, well i'm leaving now, but i'll see about another time. thankz