Perfect Wavedashes and Wavelands

[Puffin]

I've been doing some in-depth research of the advanced techniques of SSBM, and I came across several definitions of perfect wavedashing and wavelanding. Could someone tell me which is right, and answer the questions that follow?

1. The control stick must be tilted almost completely horizontally, but slightly down. In this case, at what point does it go from a wavedash/land to a perfect one?

2. The control stick must be completely horizontal (sometimes I only see this for wavelands). Whenever I do this, however, I just end up air dodging sideways. What's up?

3. One must air dodge the exact frame they leave the ground. This one makes sense, but I have a question about a test involving wavedashing past someone while holding a screw attack and standing right next to them. Supposedly, if they take a little damage but you complete the wavedash, you did it wrong; they are supposed to take no damage. However, whenever I do this, I can't wavedash at all; I simply go into the screw attack jump. I imagine that since hitting someone slightly slows the game, this is throwing off my timing, but can anyone else explain?

Last question: once you can do perfect wavedashes, is there really a place for shorter ones?

Thanks!

 

[thebluedeath1000]

First off, you put this in the wrong board, secondly..you seemingly know all that you need to, to start practicing these wavelands. So just do it.

And an answer to your last question. Read my guideline thread.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=107810

 

[Puffin]

Ah, sorry, you're right about the board. I'm just too used to coming here .

I guess my main question is, am I supposed to be able to wavedash/land holding the stick completely horizontally?

Also, I did search for this and I know how to wavedash and waveland (I can do it 99% of the time), but I didn't find anything with this level of OCD perfection.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

I don't hold it completely horizontal but then, I don't waveland perfectly..but here was the point of my posting in the first place.

You are just learning something as you said, you are expecting to get it perfect so soon? This is something that would take practice, as to wavelanding consistently would take practice, but wavelanding perfectly already?

Think for a moment. I'd be getting consistent with something before I take it further.

 

[Puffin]

I've been around a while (new account, though... Used to be Hyperion, but I seriously doubt you know the name). As I said, I can wavedash ~99% of the time, but I'm just looking to take it to the next level if possible.

Thanks for the quick responses, by the way.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

I've seen the name, don't doubt death lol

Wavedashing is easy, you were speaking of wavelanding, which is hard in the heat of an intense battle for someone whos not used to it.

If you can wavedash/waveland just fine, I'd be looking into ways for it to improve my game such as setups and mindgames over trying to improve a slight bit on that technical aspect.

Your mindset doesn't need to be on "How can I make this wavedash perfect?" it needs to be "What can this be used for..."

 

[Puffin]

OK, sounds good. Since I can wavedash out of tipper range already, I think that's plenty far. Thanks again.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Sometimes all people need is a simple change in direction.

Try thinking things out before coming here.

 

[GofG]

Ahh, thebluedeath10000, but you can always shoot a topic out of the air, even when it's a cool topic.

I think that a train of logic that would lead him to want to be able to perform perfect wavedashes might be this:

I can do a wavedash.
There is another kind of wavedash that is better to do in most situations.
Choice A: Ignore
Choice B: Assimilate

Doesn't that make sense? Then telling him to try thinking things out before coming here when there are usually a few dozen "which of marts atks u think best" threads (Not right now, though, because emblem lord has a few good threads at the top) I think is just rude.

*Goes back to his hole in the ground after realizing he can't answer the original poster's question.*

 

[Rune]

Hyperion? I remember you.. erm..

Try doing it as horizontally as possible, who cares if doing it 100% horizontally is possible or not, if it is, you'll get there eventually (people claim my wavedashes are 'perfect', and I don't think I ever hold the stick exactly horizontally.. then again, I don't really pay much heed to wavedashing anymore). Ofcourse doing it as shortly after leaving the ground as possible is preferred.

And yes, once you can do long ones, there's still room for shorter ones. Marth is about spacing, you want to stay in tipper range, if your opponent isn't that far away, you use a shorter wavedash to close the gap, but not get too close.

 

[Puffin]

Oh well, my feelings aren't hurt too badly .

 

[thebluedeath1000]

I really hate when under knowing people talk smack

Gofg, you clearly didn't get what I was saying.

A perfect wavedash doesn't mean jack and is freaking useless to put that much time and effort into. A wavedash/waveland's applications are far more important, before you come in here and make yourself look like an idiot by trying to counter my posts, how about YOU think for a minute?

Puffin, if I offended you in any way, tell me, as I said, I'm trying not to be offensive but to gofg, He doesn't understand.

Gofg, if you want to agrue, we can match since you live in NC.

 

[Puffin]

Bluedeath, I was kidding - don't worry about it. And I don't really think GofG was trying to offend you. Thanks again, everyone!

 

[Randizzle]

it's TIME to d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-duel!

 

[Klowne]

it's TIME to d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-duel!

ORE NO TAN... DURA! MON-STAH CAADO!

..lol, anyway, i noticed that if you're fast falling, you can waveland completely horizontally. Took a little time for me to get used to doing it (i was working on my ganon if anyone is wondering). Pretty much you just do an empty SHFFL and waveland left or right. Maybe the momentum from fast falling makes you hit the floor or something, who knows, but it works and it's awesome so i hope it helps.

 

[FrostByte]

Perfect wavedahsing puts you in tipper range apparently. It also allows you to fast fall your edgehogs more quickly

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Frostbyte, Any wavedash can put you in tippering range depending on the position of your foe so that can be said for all wavedashes... also any wavedash can be fastfalled into edgehog long as you position yourself well enough.

 

[FrostByte]

No, I mean a perfect wavedash to fast fall will actually get you onto the edge before you even reach it. In fact, I 'm sure I can remember UMBC saying he had a discussion with M2K about it.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

No. A wavedash ends in the same way, regardless if its perfect or not, you wouldn't have to do it perfectly, you'd just have to have it almost end at the ledge.


Unless you can show me m2k verifying this, I really can't say that it would make a difference due to the fact they end the same way. I'm not about to say m2k is wrong though.

 

[BrTarolg]

dashdance > wavedash for marth

spend that time learning to DD instead and you will grab the ledge way faster than WD, and pivot > WD

 

[thebluedeath1000]

You can't grab the edge out of a dance dash, you can only grab the edge while facing it and falling so you'd have to wavedash back.

Dance dashing is a very important of marth's game but you are putting it in the wrong context and comparing it to things it shouldn't be compared to.

 

[FrostByte]

Sorry, it was Emblem lord, not UMBC. Second page of the Q&A thread.


By the way, you can grab the edge out of a dash dance by pivoting on the first frame of the "balancing over the edge" (don't know the correct terminology) animation.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

thats mad hard to do, and this guy is just now getting advanced tactics down. Be reasonable. No one does that tactic due to its not worth the effort.

And I'll ask emblem lord about it.

 

[Kayn]

dashdance > wavedash for marth

FTW

Anyway, doesn't having the control stick completely horzontal contradict the basic instructions on performing a WD? Since you have to hit the ground while air dodging, if the control stick was horizontal you wouldn't hit the ground.

Also, about pivoting, how in the world does that work? It's my understanding that you are able to attack mid-WD. I've tried it but it never seems to work.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Pivoting doesn't have anything to do with wavedashing, its the standing frame during your dash dance.

and as I said before, he shouldn't be comparing those two things.

and emblem said you just need a long wavedash is all.

 

[Klowne]

Jeez, who says the OP can't practice applying his normal wavedashes and learn perfect wavedashes at the same time? It's not like SWF has a set way of learning advanced techs that needs to be enforced, so i don't see the problem with just answering his questions. More spacing options are always good anyway.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

You people need to understand I wasn't against him trying that.

But its much better to learn the applications of something you have just learned over trying to perfect that technique immediately.

Guidance goes further than just an answer.

 

[Puffin]

Thanks for all the help so far, but I still don't really have an answer to the original question... I'd just like to know what the correct definition is, so I can practice one without wasting my time on all three.

 

[Rune]

A combination of 1 and 3.

1. As horizontal as possible, it's 'perfect' just before it turns into a sideways airdodge.

3. Yes, leaving frames before wavedashing obviously makes it a few frames slower and ends you up higher, so you have to airdodge more diagonally down and thus won't be able to get as much distance ut of your wavedash.

As for the screw attack, I'm pretty sure it shortens the initial jump animation, and with that requires you to airdodge earlier than with a normal jump. Useless in my opinion, good wavedashing is about timing, not speed.. it's not hard to fail a wavedash by attempting to airdodge too early anyway.

 

[Silver Sytos]

Learning how to vary the length of yoru wavedashes between perfect, normal, and short is going to be really useful for spacing yourself right.

 

[Agenie04991]

Personally, I've always thought there were just 3 types of wavedashes, short, medium, and long(perfect). For me, it seems that the corners of the hexagon on the analog stick provide perfect alignment. Short = halfway between bottom corner and lower corner, Medium = lower corner, and Long(perfect) = halfway between lower corner and horizontal.​

Then again, as I write this, I realize I don't actually know if there are just 3 wavedashes. Does anyone know if a wavedash in which the analog stick is 2/3 between lower corner and horizontal goes further than one that is just halfway between lower corner and horizontal?​

 

[GofG]

*comes back out of his hole.*

Blue, you would destroy me. I'm not going to match you.

Agenie, I can personally say that your wavedash's length alters at any fraction to a certain degree along the notches.

 

[Rune]

It's an analogue stick, the word kinda says it all..

Also, fear the power of on the spot wavedashing.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

You don't know until you try Gofg.

And if you can do three different types of wavedash lengths at will consistently, you're good.

 

[Rune]

You don't know until you try Gofg.

And if you can do three different types of wavedash lengths at will consistently, you're good.

..can I disagree on that one? It's 2007, if you still can't do that stuff by now, you suck.

 

[Puffin]

Rune, I don't think he means "good" as in an excellent player, but as in acceptable.

The only purpose this topic seems to serve any more is to boil over into a flame war. Let's just shut it down.

 

[Rune]

Rune, I don't think he means "good" as in an excellent player, but as in acceptable.

Hmm, well if I tell someone "You're good." I usually mean they're actually good, not acceptable. In that case I'd say something like "Not bad".

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Rune, you surprised me by responding like that, you proved knowledgable beforehand.

In the heat of an intense match, I can vary my wavedashing from short to long easily. I ledgetech, I rarely if ever miss an l cancel. I cannot vary my wavedashing three different lengths at will during a match that I care about. And you can disagree whatever you won't, I don't care. But saying someone sucks based on one aspect is idiotic.

I play Nc's best on the power-ranking scale regularly, one of the shieks, doesn't wavedash, he only l-cancels and hes around 3rd place, thats not much in a world-wide aspect but to say someone sucks over something so trivial and listless, isn't too bright.

I'm not on the power ranking list due to me not going to enough major tournaments or taking enough money matches.

By your logic, if someone doesn't have a 100% perfect technical game, they suck, they I guess than everyone is less than "good".

 

[Rune]

Right, right, sorry, let me rephrase that.. "It's 2007, if you still can't do that stuff by now, you are not very good at wavedashing." That better?

Now, I'm not saying your wavedashing is inadequate, my wavedashing standards are simply very high. I was one of the first to actually implement it, and it's always been my forte. Although not extremely fast, my fingers are very precise, making wavedashing at different lengths quite simple to me. Not that it's too useful, but I've been out of it for a few years now (came back for Brawl), and I kind of assumed people would have gotten wavedashing down perfectly by now. I guess the overall level of play hasn't increased too dramatically since I quit after all.

Thanks for calling me knowledgeable, I hope I'm not selling people nonsense, since I've been out of it for quite a while, and unsure how much things have changed since then. I was nominated for the title of "Doctor Smash" by this board in those days for my endless Marth rants and theories in the Marth Specific subforum.. so at least I was knowledgeable at some point. ;D

I'm not sure what this power ranking thing is you speak of.. but from what you say I collect you're a sub-top player, like I was. I attended TG6, beat a few well known people, only to lose in a pretty close (one win for me, 2 for them) match to some (at that time anyway) top dogs like Wes, Captain Jack and Diesuperfly. Pretty close, but not quite. :x

Well, that's it for the history lesson, sorry for not thinking.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

: )

You responded to my semi harsh post with something very intelligent and insight.

+points on your respect factor.

Simple wavedashing, everyone has..such as short and long, and consistently doing so..but can I do three different lengths at will? God no, not with the pressure is on me.

With marth, the techs are sound but mistakes do happen, long as I don't make a fatal error such as missing a ledgetech I'm happy. If I don't miss a waveland or l-cancel with ganon at all, I'm surprised with myself that day so thats my tech skill. I main marth and secondary ganon.

And I look for people that know what they are talking about.