Pika Q&A/FAQ Thread: Ask a Quick Question, Get a Quick Answer!

[Angiance]

No, we have a better air game, frame 3 aerials, remember?

Alot of Kirby's seem to prefer keeping Inhale though

 

[Mr.Pikachu]

Oh no wonder...

 

[Angiance]

Mhm, any Kirby questions?

 

[Mr.Pikachu]

I finally have a video up! Take a look! *All of my best matches were over 3min. The maximum time that brawl can record so I only have these matches that I messed up on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p34S01kkGaw&list=UU7QaOT5GeTFrJT0LdmOo_8g&feature=c4-overview

 

[Angiance]

Know what, we should all just drop Brawl and migrate to Project M, seriously. I wanna fight you, Mr.Pikachu

 

[Player -0]

There's a different playstyle between games, depends what you want to do.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Mhm, any Kirby questions?

How do I deal with Kirby's hammer ?

 

[Player -0]

Kirby's Hammer is fairly slow with both its startup and endlag. It also gives Kirby RCO, from the air it's less powerful, has 2 hits (first hit sends diagonal, second hit sends horizontal).

You shouldn't really be getting hit by it.

I guess there are grab combos that can lead into it if you don't DI correctly.

 

[Mr.Pikachu]

Play me? Like you mean on wifi or offline or something?

 

[Angiance]

Yeah, it'd be nice to fight ANYONE at this point, considering I've never had anyone to play...but oh wellz. Kirbys will only use the air hammer, since it's less laggy and more likely to connect; the grounded hammer hits with quite a bit more force however

1TrollMastr

 

[1PokeMastr]

How do I deal with the Donkey Kong Mu ?

I have a lot of difficulty securing the kill on him, while he just kills me at 70-80%.

 

[Ookami Hajime]

@PokeMastr: Kill DK off the top, lotsa jolts, don't stale your u-smash. Killing DK off the side is near impossible.

@ Angiance : People do play both games, you know lol Do you play PM?

Guys, I went to a tournament this weekend and I placed pretty well but, like last time, I got taken down by a Marth. After losing the first match, I wanted to just go ICs and lame him out to win but I felt bad about picking ICs so I just stayed Pika and took a second loss. Can anyone give me some advice on the Pika-Marth match up? I know it's horribly in his favor, but is there any advice you guys have? Or should I just go ICs against every Marth I see?
Thanks~

 

[1PokeMastr]

That doesn't answer my question, I know my kill moves and I know not to stale Usmash.
And saying "Lots of TJolts" doesn't help much either, he just Bairs right through them.


Anyway, how should I be edgeguarding him ? Please don't say "TJolt" Pikachu is more than just that, and his Up B will just beat them out anyway.
I was thinking maybe Sh Dair off stage or Ledge hop Nair when his Up B gets close.

Also Pika vs Marth, I'm pretty sure it's +1 Marth or pretty even.

 

[Ookami Hajime]

That doesn't answer my question, I know my kill moves and I know not to stale Usmash.
And saying "Lots of TJolts" doesn't help much either, he just Bairs right through them.


Anyway, how should I be edgeguarding him ? Please don't say "TJolt" Pikachu is more than just that, and his Up B will just beat them out anyway.
I was thinking maybe Sh Dair off stage or Ledge hop Nair when his Up B gets close.

Also Pika vs Marth, I'm pretty sure it's +1 Marth or pretty even.

Pka is -1 against Marth.
Shield b-airs and run under him for u-air strings. F-airs good against DK; try to stay in front of him at all times because DK has little to no options in the air for an opponent in front of him. F-air is too slow, d-air won't connect, neither will u-air, and neutral is his only option. So long as you are shielding b-airs and punishing them as well as not getting grabbed, there's not much he can do to you.

Edgeguard the heck out of him with thunder. There's nothing he can do about it. His recovery won't go through it and he can't wait it out because of his recovery being horrible vertically. Dodging though it is barely an option because of his huge hurtbox and DK basically relies on thunder to get some vertical height back while unfortunately taking heavy percent. N-air the bottom of his recovery when he doesn't go for the edge and ledge hop n-air is another good option.

I apologize for my horrible, blunt explanation before, haha. I'm tired.
Hope this helps, and good luck, my friend.

 

[1PokeMastr]

I've tried thunder, and it never really seems to hit him.
He saves his jump, waits for the thunder, stalls with side b and recovers under the thunder (since I get hit with thunder 2)
Maybe I'm just miss timing it and should be using b reverse thunder instead.

As for in front of him.. the Dk swats away my sh/ full hop approaches with F-Tilt aimed up and reverse U-Tilt (Hitbox is huge, I've seen it beat GaW/ TLink dair)

 

[Angiance]

Well, Ookami, There is a high probability that I will drop Brawl for PM, simply because there isn't a reason NOT to. It's just everything a competitive smasher could dream of.

Vs. DK

WE ARE BETTER THAN HIM

Approach - Dash > Shield-slide, into range; OoS play

Our Tipped F-Air beats about every non-disjointed attack; stop sucking at spacing

Our SH D-Air is strictly reserved for reads, it's pretty punishable otherwise; stop spamming it

FH T-Jolt is a godly tactic

QAC is godly on it's own if it's unpredictably used

DON'T REPETITIVELY SHOOT JOLTS SERIOUSLY PIKAS STOP BEING NOOBY ITS 2014

Yeah, we own DK

Edgeguarding

Run or QA to the ledge, from this point we have U-Air (at it's full speed [frame 3] since we don't have to SH for it), and we have drop down Thunder. U-Air, being absurdly fast, is generally for baiting; even if it misses it puts the ENEMY in a position to get FREAKING PIKA *****...by us :3

Or, from the stage, shoot a T-Jolt BELOW him (or any opponent actually) it's better that way. It's not made to hit, but to CONTROL the opponents movement, keep that in mind.

OOKAMI, MOST OF THE CRAP I JUST TYPED CAN BE APPLIED TO ANY CHARACTER, INCLUDING MARTH

 

[Ookami Hajime]

I've tried thunder, and it never really seems to hit him.
He saves his jump, waits for the thunder, stalls with side b and recovers under the thunder (since I get hit with thunder 2)
Maybe I'm just miss timing it and should be using b reverse thunder instead.

As for in front of him.. the Dk swats away my sh/ full hop approaches with F-Tilt aimed up and reverse U-Tilt (Hitbox is huge, I've seen it beat GaW/ TLink dair)

Almost always b-reverse thunder. If he stalls the thunder, you have enough time to do anything you want to him when he's trying to get back afterward. If you're sure he'll stall with side-b, you can always bluff the thunder and n-air him instead.
If he's swatting at you f-tilt a lot, try run to run shield. We can deal heavy damage to him with a grab so after shielding it once and chain grabbing him to 50-60%. After that, he'll probably stop using the move that much and if continues, just repeat it.

@ Angiance : Have you ever PLAYED PM? I hope you realize how different a game it is. But if you want to pick it it up, I support you! It's a great game!
And, sure I guess; I play both games. There are plenty of reasons to not drop brawl for PM if you can simply play both.
At that tournament, because of Marth of course, I placed 9th out of 27. In PM, I placed 4th.

 

[Angiance]

Yes, I like my fighter to be as complicated, and fast paced as possible (like Skullgirls, Blazblue, or Hisoutensoku). PM seems just...beautiful to me, like I've never played it, but I KNOW it's going to become my lover

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

DON'T REPETITIVELY SHOOT JOLTS SERIOUSLY PIKAS STOP BEING NOOBY ITS 2014

So applying safe pressure from full/half-stage isn't good? Oh man, I guess I've been doing it wrong the whole time.


In case you couldn't tell, that was sarcasm. Stop pretending like you are worth anything in this and don't tell people to not do something that is actually amazing. It actually makes aspiring players worse.

 

[Ookami Hajime]

@ESAM: I got lamed out by a Marth at tourney last weekend. Do you have any advice on the match up or do you think I should just go ICs?
@ Angiance : Do you at least know of melee tech that's applied in that game? L-cancelling? Crouch cancelling? Wave dashing? There's a lot of things to learn, my friend. Anyway, when you'd like to pick it up, if you have trouble getting it on an SD card, I'd be glad to help you with the download ^^

 

[Angiance]

Yeah, I've got alot of Melee techs down, but L-Cancelling is somethin' I'm currently practicing. I loves the difficulty though, it gives me a reason to play. Don't worry though, I know how to get it working, thanks though ^ - ^

ESAM, I said in that same post that "FH T-Jolt is godly," just don't PREDICTABLY spam it...yeesh

 

[Mr.Pikachu]

I know this isn't related to pikachu or anything of that sort, but since this is a Q&A thread I'll ask! Is there an alternative way to load hacks for brawl other than HBC? I don't wanna get banned by nintendo, but then again I really like the hacks

 

[Ookami Hajime]

Yeah, I've got alot of Melee techs down, but L-Cancelling is somethin' I'm currently practicing. I loves the difficulty though, it gives me a reason to play. Don't worry though, I know how to get it working, thanks though ^ - ^

ESAM, I said in that same post that "FH T-Jolt is godly," just don't PREDICTABLY spam it...yeesh

Don't worry too much; once you start doing it, your finger will reflexively L-Cancel subconsciously ^^ Do you plan to main Pika in that game as well?
And cool! ^^

 

[Angiance]

Of course, Pikachu is the only character I've ever put time into. Even if Pikachu became bottom tier, I'd still main him

 

[Mr.Pikachu]

Pikachu ftw, but I also must try out yoshi

 

[Ookami Hajime]

Of course, Pikachu is the only character I've ever put time into. Even if Pikachu became bottom tier, I'd still main him

I respect your loyalty, haha. Pika remains my favorite character in all games and I play him in each game, but I'm maining my Squirtleeeeeee~! Pikachu's play style isn't like brawl at all in PM, where T-jolts aren't used nearly as often and edgeguarding with thunder is a myth, haha. But he's still a solid character of course!

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

With marth you just have to outread them in CQC (Close quarter combat). If you have the lead, force him to come to you, but don't give up your stage positioning because it's incredibly difficult to get back on stage vs a competent marth. Just keep your reads solid and try not to over-commit to anything.

 

[Ookami Hajime]

With marth you just have to outread them in CQC (Close quarter combat). If you have the lead, force him to come to you, but don't give up your stage positioning because it's incredibly difficult to get back on stage vs a competent marth. Just keep your reads solid and try not to over-commit to anything.

I see! I'll keep it in mind, thanks!

 

[hell-dew]

I feel like Poke is the DK in question and im the pikachu on the reviving end of that MU >.<.Serouly though how the @#@# do you kill DK. i can do pretty well % wise but DK can kill me stupid easily and i have a insane amount of trouble ending his stock. also Poke PS game is stupid good camping jolts doesnt work and yeah he will just Bair rush me to death if i even try jolt camping. Dashing at DK works to an extent. other times your eating a smash attack of a Down B/punch... and yeah hes timed the running to shield delay on me before and murdered me with some janky hitboxs of that move before. hes beaten me in my region and eliminated me at Apex (best seeding ever).

Anyways onto the marth MU

One thing about marth that i find hilarious is a lot of marths are stupid hesitant to use dair cause its laggy as all @#@# so juggling them with Uair works then pisses them off causing them to Dair. then they start throwing it out and you can pretty much troll them and condition them with that situation cause if they dair and miss well free punish. i was half trolling leon with that and he half WTFed after i hit him with 6 Uairs forcing him to start Dairing. lol.

with marth learn how to micro space his sword this MU take experiance cause if you mis space it your eating a tipper. your Fsmash out ranges a vast majority of his attacks (pretty sure it out spaces F air and Fsmash. Dont know about shield breaker but they rarely throw it out plus we got an evil spot dodge that is pretty abusable forcing them to use DB on us. Shield dancing blades and punish accordingly if they rush you with it. 4 hits of dancing blades has far more lag then then 2 hits make sure you know that. Marth Loves punishing spot dodges with DB so be careful. also some marths do this annoying thing where they delay the usually the later hits of the DB so becareful and learn how to punish according to the situation.

Nair is honestly the one move i have a lot of trouble with from marth TBH if someone has advice for this share the wisdom. Off stage its far better to not challenge him and try and jolt him from on stage and keeping stage control is insanely vital in this MU. if marth corners you onto the sides he becomes really hard to deal with and he flat out beats us in the air Fair out spaces hard and he can swat away jolts. You can actaully gimp him with jolts to if you nail his second jump at the right time and a lot of lower level marths are very susceptible to that and ive gotten good ones here and there with it. you can also trap him off stage with wave bounced thunders forcing him to jump into it or else he dies if hes to low and doesnt have his second jump.

crossing him up is kinda silly cause Upsmash will pretty much anti cross you up. at high% he can kill you with Dolphin slash and Uptilt really easily so be aware of that.

use lots of grabs to and try and alternative it up between that and AC Dairs.when your at 0 he has a nasty grab combo into a Fsmash tipper to so dont get grabbed at zero. keep your eyes peeled if their fishing for the grab. I know you can Fthrow Usmash characters at zero i think it works on marth although they have dolpin slashed out so i dont know if its guaranteed (someone confirm plz) but even if it isnt you can still bait the attack and punish it very easily for good free damage.

Ftilt is a good anti air and aside from that lots of landing traps (i like Fsmash). and be ready to get Meteor cancel any spikes cause you can easily recover from most of them if your not at high %s so be ready although you shouldnt be getting spiked very easily unless your being very predictable with your recovery.

speaking of recovering the ledge game against marth sucks. he can corner you so hard he has a huge hit box and it makes punishing QA really easy. you have to get creative with recoveries on stages that you can send a jolt up the side of the stage and recovery with do it it will make your life easier (IE halberd on the "grounded" section)

i cant think of a whole lot more to say so aside from that watch Esams matches against Mr R and Leon.

if anyone has anything to add feel free to add and hopefully someone will find something useful out of that.

BTW who are the top 10 pikachus out there anyways? I can pretty much assume Esam Anther Z and Kprime but who else? I saw silver alloy do really well against Zero im probably gonna assume that hes up there as well as Shimatake and Hayasa(Sp?) are up there although i feel like im missing ppls and dont really feel like i have any kinda grasp of the other pikas out there

 

[Angiance]

Well, there are alot of potential holding pikas out there, like me, but we just don't have the money to travel *shrugs*

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I had a few good matches vs Will at WHOBO4 if you want to watch. You can look them up on youtube. In the actual tournament I went ICs but I played him in a BO5 MM which are all recorded.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Well, Ookami, There is a high probability that I will drop Brawl for PM, simply because there isn't a reason NOT to. It's just everything a competitive smasher could dream of.

Stuff the pissy Angiance said

Uair = Frame 5.

+ All Dk's Moves have a disjoint, you can not out range/ disjoint him.

Unless you're named Zair or Zss Side B.

Or some other move with janky range I'm too lazy to care about.


Also good eye Helldew.

 

[Angiance]

Uair = Frame 5.

+ All Dk's Moves have a disjoint, you can not out range/ disjoint him.

Unless you're named Zair or Zss Side B.

Or some other move with janky range I'm too lazy to care about.


Also good eye Helldew.

Our U-Air is frame 3

All of DK's attacks are disjointed? None of our attacks beat his? Wow, you're da best playerrrr

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Yeah DK's moves are either not disjointed or are so minimally disjointed that it doesn't matter...

 

[Player -0]

Probably isn't understanding what disjoint means, want to clarify what it is so we don't get an argument?

 

[Ookami Hajime]

That'd be nice. This thread gets sidetracked by idiotic player disputes much too often

 

[Angiance]

Disjoint = Marth's attacks

 

[Mr.Pikachu]

I always thought disjointed meant that the attack might have more or less range than what it actually looks like it's reaching to.

 

[Thor]

Disjoint = no hurtbox but a hitbox, i.e., if you each hit the same space and one of you has a disjoint and one doesn't, the disjoint wins because aerials trade. It's less relevant on the ground other than "I can clank with you from a distance neener neener." Marth fair = disjointed, because if you hit where his sword is you take damage and he doesn't. I'm not sure this definition is complete because it implies Fox shine in Melee is frame 1 disjointed (Because no hurtbox but yes hitbox) but it's far better than the other definitions.

Mr.Pikachu, your definition is just a move's hitboxes being silly or else has slightly extended hitboxes because it made sense to devs. Snake's utilt is disjointed, but for the wrong reasons - they resized his model but not this hitbox, but they did fix hurboxes, so it has some parts where it hits but he isn't hit (it can beat a TL dair XD). It also has some invisible range on startup (utilt hitbox is out before the foot is up). Our fair is a little disjointed and has the invisible part because electricity surrounds Pika so they made it a hitbox, but it's so small that tipping it and seeing this effect isn't obvious to people who haven't played with it (though you probably have). Nice avatar by the way.

1Pokemastr, DK has no real disjoints on his attacks (PM they gave his nair invincibility on the arms, or made it disjointed), but his bair's range is a ***** to deal with so it often seems "disjointed" because it smacks you out of the blue like a Marth fair. But you can actually trade with it (bad idea as Pikachu) or space it with fair, but that's hard to do (betcha Angiance is just being obnoxious and I'd doubt he does it consistently).

Angiance, be less obnoxious. Even if you can space fair perfectly every time.

I still can't even B-reverse thunder so I jump offstage, FF, jump back and thunder. N00BY tactics 2014. Just felt like mentioning this. Just to be clear, I thunder then slash the analog stick toward the direction I want to move in (i.e, the opposite direction), right?

 

[Ookami Hajime]

Thor's explanation was pretty much perfect. Good job.
By the way, not being able to b-reverse thunder and just doing it your way is common, even among the best Pikas; you're fine. They're generally the same except that missing the b-reverse means pika goes far off enough off stage to get you killed.

If you want to know my inputs, I generally jump forward, thunder, and then quarter circle the control stick in the other direction.
Thunder-----> diagonal down left---->left
Do it one quick motion but AFTER you input thunder. If you quarter circle it at the same time, pika will fly off stage while simply looking the opposite direction he's flying in.