Pit General Match-Up Thread

[Archangel]

OK so...last time I gave this a shot was in 2.5 when Pit had almost all good MU because he was OP'd. now that I'm back and more active I'll try giving the MU's I've got experience in a legit shot.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Thoughts on the m2 MU? It feels like whoever has the momentum usually wins. So it could be close to 50:50 or there could be a slight favor to one of them. It could be in m2 favor, he seems to have a easier time getting kills but a harder time getting gimps/edge guards. Something funny I did with a m2 was, I would miss my arrow and then just curve it into the ground and it would hit his obnoxiously large tail. wasfunnylaughdammit

Oh and when can DA not be cc?

 

[Archangel]

Thoughts on the m2 MU? It feels like whoever has the momentum usually wins. So it could be close to 50:50 or there could be a slight favor to one of them. It could be in m2 favor, he seems to have a easier time getting kills but a harder time getting gimps/edge guards. Something funny I did with a m2 was, I would miss my arrow and then just curve it into the ground and it would hit his obnoxiously large tail. wasfunnylaughdammit

Oh and when can DA not be cc?

I have very little experience in he MU since I've only played it a few times but in terms of tools it's about even. I think pit is slightly better overall but not by much. Mewtwo is hard to combo into kills past a certain % so the flow of the match feels like Marth vs Peach(a match I've played a lot in melee) difference being you have the tools to camp Mewtwo until he over extends himself. Basically you have control over the stage if your reaction is good enough to deal with the UpB-aerial which is going to happen for sure and as long as you can handle it the MU belongs to Pit. There are wholes in your game by design that mewtwo is capable of exploiting. Mewtwo has no probably combo-ing into kills especially on small stages with shorter blastzones so personally I'd ban them unless you are confident that you can kill the mewtwo before he kills you. Keep in mind that he has a grab that will kill you easily on a stage like Yoshi's or Wario Ware. You can combo-up b but the %'s are tight and M2 with good DI might escape your combos given how floaty he is in general. Overall I'd compare the MU to Pit vs Samus. Past certain %'s just back away and play it safe. Should be in your favor 55-45 I'd say but I have to look into it more.

 

[Phoenix502]

that'd be great if you could look further into the Pit VS Mewtwo matchup, because for the most part, finding reliable means of getting close is just not easy to find... that stupid tail has no problem shutting me down when I approach and it outranges me almost half the time. I ended up asking my opponent (Frozen) what he's exploiting and he tells me I have no mixups.

meanwhile I'm starting to fume by the answer as "It's difficult to develop any mixups if I don't have a plan" so I'd deeply love some insight as to how the hell you even fight against Mewtwo as Pit...

 

[Archangel]

that'd be great if you could look further into the Pit VS Mewtwo matchup, because for the most part, finding reliable means of getting close is just not easy to find... that stupid tail has no problem shutting me down when I approach and it outranges me almost half the time. I ended up asking my opponent (Frozen) what he's exploiting and he tells me I have no mixups.

meanwhile I'm starting to fume by the answer as "It's difficult to develop any mixups if I don't have a plan" so I'd deeply love some insight as to how the hell you even fight against Mewtwo as Pit...

After Exploring the MU more I find it easier than Mewtwo vs Marth. Mewtwo's tail is bull**** now. I do however think it's good for Pit. Major issue that sticks out is "when I approach" Idk what playstyle you have but my best advice is to not approach Mewtwo and play campy smart. Eventually Mewtwo will have to get close to you and you'll get a chance to gauge his movements. The up-B-aerials as fast as they are become predictable over time. advance then retreat. In military tactics this is luring and it works wonders vs Mewtwo who once committed can be punished. Vs Good DI good combos are going to vanish when Mewtwo gets like 50% or higher so I wouldn't worry about getting flashy kills because they stop working. Mewtwo is too floaty. Instead run away, pick shots and rack up damage until Mewtwo is high enough % and then strike. Don't be shocked if you don't get kills until like..200% because that seems to just be the way the MU works most of the time. If it's tournament I'd ban small stages with small ceilings/walls because Mewtwo combos the **** out of pit compared to you maybe getting 2-3 hits at a time past mid %s.

As for the Tail on mewtwo it's best not to challenge it at all. It's more like a sword now it's best to run away and shoot him. I don't bother challenging the Bair because 9/10 times you lose.

This is all I got now but i'm playing the MU more. I'll let you know anything else I come across.

 

[Phoenix502]

so, in other words, facing Mewtwo with Pit is a severe test of patience... with me losing as soon as I start to crack.

crap, patience is not one of my stronger suits...

 

[Archangel]

so, in other words, facing Mewtwo with Pit is a severe test of patience... with me losing as soon as I start to crack.

crap, patience is not one of my stronger suits...

Then I suggest you get really good at someone who can super aggro Mewtwo. Falcon can do it but if you aren't super good you are going to get o-death a great deal. I played the MU more today and the less you focus on getting cool combos the easier the MU gets imo. Just accept playing extremely patient/ghey and that almost nothing cool is going to happen and you'll do better LOL.

 

[bksbestbwoy]

How does one play the Dr. Mario match up? Specifically, how do you navigate campy/cape-y Dr. Marios? It feels like I "get it" in terms of staying mobile and coming to grips with the idea that I'll probably never get to stay grounded for too long, but what do you all do versus pill spam? Even when I attempt to stay away, that damage racks up over time and nothing kills momentum like running into one and having to guard 2 more while Doc rushes you down. Also, do you use arrows to bait out capes or is this a mostly arrowless matchup?

 

[Archangel]

How does one play the Dr. Mario match up? Specifically, how do you navigate campy/cape-y Dr. Marios? It feels like I "get it" in terms of staying mobile and coming to grips with the idea that I'll probably never get to stay grounded for too long, but what do you all do versus pill spam? Even when I attempt to stay away, that damage racks up over time and nothing kills momentum like running into one and having to guard 2 more while Doc rushes you down. Also, do you use arrows to bait out capes or is this a mostly arrowless matchup?

especially after today I'm pretty convince that Mario now beat Pit in the head to head. I thought it was even back in 2.5 but Pit's been nerfed since then while Mario has been transformed into PM's Sheik. His ability to out spam you, out reflect you, and out play you and just about every situation including forced trades on your disjointed hitboxes is just....annoying. But every good character has to have at least 1 challenging MU right? I still have a great deal to learn about this MU but one thing I can say is if you get him directly above you, Uair juggles still work. If timed correctly you beat his Dair and pretty much anything else he can come down with. As for everything else...idk I need to collect more data.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

If mario is already coming down with dair you ain't doing squat to him. You have to hit him in the start up of his dair. It starts of slow with low priority and then it gets fast with good/high priority.

 

[Player -0]

Up B thingy?

Dair beats that?

 

[otter]

How does one play the Dr. Mario match up? Specifically, how do you navigate campy/cape-y Dr. Marios? It feels like I "get it" in terms of staying mobile and coming to grips with the idea that I'll probably never get to stay grounded for too long, but what do you all do versus pill spam? Even when I attempt to stay away, that damage racks up over time and nothing kills momentum like running into one and having to guard 2 more while Doc rushes you down. Also, do you use arrows to bait out capes or is this a mostly arrowless matchup?

It's rough. He can spam better, reflect better, and his projectiles do 5x more damage than yours. its pointless to fight mid range. shoot arrows from afar, or get in that ass. You have to count on getting some gimps because he's going to being dealing way more damage than you as well.

Up B thingy?

Dair beats that?

not the grounded version, but that only does 10% with no killing or combo options. His dair does beat upsmash though wtf.

 

[bksbestbwoy]

especially after today I'm pretty convince that Mario now beat Pit in the head to head. I thought it was even back in 2.5 but Pit's been nerfed since then while Mario has been transformed into PM's Sheik. His ability to out spam you, out reflect you, and out play you and just about every situation including forced trades on your disjointed hitboxes is just....annoying. But every good character has to have at least 1 challenging MU right? I still have a great deal to learn about this MU but one thing I can say is if you get him directly above you, Uair juggles still work. If timed correctly you beat his Dair and pretty much anything else he can come down with. As for everything else...idk I need to collect more data.

I'm quite honestly convinced that even at a semi casual level that Mario is a ****ing problem for the large majority of the PM cast. None of my usuals (Marth, Fox, Pit, Lucas) challenge him enough for him to stray away from his game plan and he gets massive rewards off of anything he wants to do at a moment's notice. lol

Thanks for the input though, guess it's time to brush everything up.

Edit: I will say though that all of those guys go even until you make a bad decision or get sloppy though. It's just that you're definitely doing more work to stay even than he does in most of those match ups.

 

[Archangel]

I'm quite honestly convinced that even at a semi casual level that Mario is a ****ing problem for the large majority of the PM cast. None of my usuals (Marth, Fox, Pit, Lucas) challenge him enough for him to stray away from his game plan and he gets massive rewards off of anything he wants to do at a moment's notice. lol

Thanks for the input though, guess it's time to brush everything up.

Edit: I will say though that all of those guys go even until you make a bad decision or get sloppy though. It's just that you're definitely doing more work to stay even than he does in most of those match ups.

yeah, I feel pit's main problem is that he doesn't have a high priority lingering hitbox on and he doesn't really have safe pressure and Mario is just one of those characters that can expose him but it's not like Pit can't win the MU its just hard to deal with him because he beats you in areas that you are good at lol.

 

[5-oNe]

you need platforms is a major key in the mario mu.because you will have a hell of a time dealing with fireballs without them.just stay patient.pit can still combo mario even with his quick nair...also marios play alot like luigis where they will button mash for their nair to come out, so its not difficult to bait it out

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

It's still going to bad, even with platforms. The higher mario jumps, they higher they go. He can also cover those with fireballs. Imo platforms are much better against lasers and things that go primarily straight. What I think you guys should try, is give him a little less space. Try figuring out a comfortable and safe fireball distance and the be closer or maybe further away, I'm sure some sitituations will call for ether or. If your to close for a safe fireball, you won't have to deal with it and if you're to far, well yup. Just my 2 cents.

 

[bksbestbwoy]

Well I don't know what happened but it felt like I caught the holy Smash ghost yesterday and my Pit started looking MUCH better. Thanks guys! I have a few things I want to share with you all but keep in mind these are just musings of a scrub:

- Dair is life. Dair is love. Dair is the one true attack.
- A lot of my successes came from catching Mario in his Fireball/Pill patterns with a short hop/full hop arrow angled to catch him in his start up, landing and immediately pulling out a buffered Palutena's Mirror. This has the added effect of reflecting the closest fireball back at them when they (damn near guaranteed) move in after being intercepted by an arrow which then leads into any number of followups.
- Using more Palu's Mirror to gimp recovery (usually to beat out any attempts at using SJP to get back to the stage) was also another big source of KOs and it dramatically turned the tides against both my brother's Mario and Roy (his mains).
- It's really a nutty and very tense match up, but it's doable.
- The craziest thing I noticed is that the match up almost feels free if you get a knockdown or stagger with Pit's dtilt. Things like WoI - nair - FFLC'd dtilt at low percentages almost let you have free reign with how fast Pit can dash dance grab if knocked down or just grab into down throw followups if they're standing.
- I'm learning how to use arrows in a way that when they get near Mario, if he capes, they aren't sent right back at me. If you are in a good enough range where the arrow angle doesn't make it come back to you immediately, Pit can seriously turn it up especially when you're freed from the nervousness of expecting a cape.

Regarding platforms, I pretty much feel like you want a stage where you can have wide open spaces and a platform from time to time. Smashville is really good, especially when you mix wavelandings out of Wings of Icarus into things and have them over exert themselves trying to catch or zone you with high bouncing fireballs/pills. Final Destination is really ****ing rough/tense since giving Mario anything near half the stage means you have to navigate the projectiles and stick real close to the ground lest they escape and begin camping the other side of the stage. I would almost nominate Green Hill Zone for this as well, but I'm inconsistent at using that level's platform with Pit.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Is it just me, or has the endlag on most of Pit's aerials been increased?

 

[Player -0]

Nair goes through fireballs so you can catch Mario out of it.

 

[otter]

Well I don't know what happened but it felt like I caught the holy Smash ghost yesterday and my Pit started looking MUCH better. Thanks guys! I have a few things I want to share with you all but keep in mind these are just musings of a scrub:

- Dair is life. Dair is love. Dair is the one true attack.
- A lot of my successes came from catching Mario in his Fireball/Pill patterns with a short hop/full hop arrow angled to catch him in his start up, landing and immediately pulling out a buffered Palutena's Mirror. This has the added effect of reflecting the closest fireball back at them when they (damn near guaranteed) move in after being intercepted by an arrow which then leads into any number of followups.
- Using more Palu's Mirror to gimp recovery (usually to beat out any attempts at using SJP to get back to the stage) was also another big source of KOs and it dramatically turned the tides against both my brother's Mario and Roy (his mains).
- It's really a nutty and very tense match up, but it's doable.
- The craziest thing I noticed is that the match up almost feels free if you get a knockdown or stagger with Pit's dtilt. Things like WoI - nair - FFLC'd dtilt at low percentages almost let you have free reign with how fast Pit can dash dance grab if knocked down or just grab into down throw followups if they're standing.
- I'm learning how to use arrows in a way that when they get near Mario, if he capes, they aren't sent right back at me. If you are in a good enough range where the arrow angle doesn't make it come back to you immediately, Pit can seriously turn it up especially when you're freed from the nervousness of expecting a cape.

Regarding platforms, I pretty much feel like you want a stage where you can have wide open spaces and a platform from time to time. Smashville is really good, especially when you mix wavelandings out of Wings of Icarus into things and have them over exert themselves trying to catch or zone you with high bouncing fireballs/pills. Final Destination is really ****ing rough/tense since giving Mario anything near half the stage means you have to navigate the projectiles and stick real close to the ground lest they escape and begin camping the other side of the stage. I would almost nominate Green Hill Zone for this as well, but I'm inconsistent at using that level's platform with Pit.

Would you elaborate on why dair is do good? I know it's the cool thing to say since armada started playing but is like to know why it's the best approach.

Also green hill zone is cool but keep in mind you're giving Mario a wall jump.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Dair is good but it's not super awesome. If you land it, it leads to a lot and vice versa.

 

[bksbestbwoy]

Dair (for me) just does so many things. It catches rolls with a moderate read when you start your nonsense off the nair/fair - FFL - dtilt spike beginning, it spaces and scares well (it's like the only button my regular opponent doesn't rush in on), and I feel like he gets some of the most free followups on Mario once he's gotten to a certain point.

Of course, you shouldn't throw it out all over and get predictable, but this is just me appreciating what adding one more here and there can do for offense.

 

[Sharkz]

I'm now 0-2 vs Metaknights in tournament. It doesn't seem like that tough of a matchup, I just need to learn how to follow up on certain things. His weight and fall speed are different than I thought they'd be.
The only thing I could figure out to do off of dthrow at low % was usmash. What do y'all do off throws against him?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I'm now 0-2 vs Metaknights in tournament. It doesn't seem like that tough of a matchup, I just need to learn how to follow up on certain things. His weight and fall speed are different than I thought they'd be.
The only thing I could figure out to do off of dthrow at low % was usmash. What do y'all do off throws against him?

Don't usmash at low %, CG him. You can do to till 40% If I remember correctly. You might be able to go longer, then you wanna usmash after you milked it.

 

[foxygrandpa]

Don't usmash at low %, CG him. You can do to till 40% If I remember correctly. You might be able to go longer, then you wanna usmash after you milked it.

after doing the chain grab, dont upsmash, go into dair and continue juggling. I play this matchup all the time and I think its pretty even, but its certainly a violent matchup. Pit and MK both play off each others weaknesses.

 

[Archangel]

after doing the chain grab, dont upsmash, go into dair and continue juggling. I play this matchup all the time and I think its pretty even, but its certainly a violent matchup. Pit and MK both play off each others weaknesses.

Exactly so far as I can tell it's even but it's the kinda of even that is going to be debated for years to come. Think Falco vs fox or Marth vs Falcon.

Also you can Uair combo MK as well, Sometimes you can also Fthrow him and arrow him to death depending on his %. I feel like there is a great deal Pit can do but you just have to be careful of Wiffs.

 

[5-oNe]

yeah definitely follow up with uair and dair.it will lead to more damage in the long run and alot more opportunities...i never try to follow with usmash at early percentages because you wont kill them and it just stops your combo.

 

[Doppler12]

I've been playing a Diddy a lot lately, as long as you take away his bananas he can't out camp you, and its harder for him to combo you. And if he needs to up b to recover, you just arrow spam him to death. There's pretty much nothing he can do about it.

 

[alphabattack]

Does any one have any tips for the lucas matchup? I have trouble since I can't approach very well, and his down b makes it hard to arrow camp.

 

[Doppler12]

Lucas's down b is pretty punishable, just arrow camp until he starts using his down b to stop it, then bait it out and glide approach him.

 

[woundedust]

I would play the Mario my just like the diddy one. Don't give him a lot of space, play in his face, etc

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I would play the Mario my just like the diddy one. Don't give him a lot of space, play in his face, etc

Unlike diddy, mario is REAL good at playing that game. Dunno how good that would be.

 

[Sharkz]

Don't usmash at low %, CG him. You can do to till 40% If I remember correctly. You might be able to go longer, then you wanna usmash after you milked it.

Glad to hear it. When I was playing the match, I wasn't sure and I had tried it but didn't work. Obviously just some mistakes on my part. I'll be in the lab.

I'm going to start experimenting using dair after my dthrows instead of just fair everytime. Makes for some interesting DI mixups and more custom followups.

Also, speaking of dthrow cg's, does anyone know the full list of who Pit can cg? I would love to test it out but I don't have anyone to help me properly DI away from throws.

 

[otter]

Lucas's down b is pretty punishable, just arrow camp until he starts using his down b to stop it, then bait it out and glide approach him.

you know he can waveshine right?

 

[Player -0]

"Waveshine." Lucas can't jump Oo Magnet but the endlag is so small that it looks like it.

Also - Down Throw to Dair Spike if your opponent DI's away. Legit stuff.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

"Waveshine." Lucas can't jump Oo Magnet but the endlag is so small that it looks like it.

For The Glory.
Press down b then up on the anolog with Lucas.

 

[Player -0]

For The Glory.
Press down b then up on the anolog with Lucas.

What?

 

[5-oNe]

Glad to hear it. When I was playing the match, I wasn't sure and I had tried it but didn't work. Obviously just some mistakes on my part. I'll be in the lab.

I'm going to start experimenting using dair after my dthrows instead of just fair everytime. Makes for some interesting DI mixups and more custom followups.

Also, speaking of dthrow cg's, does anyone know the full list of who Pit can cg? I would love to test it out but I don't have anyone to help me properly DI away from throws.

you can usually dthrow chain grab alot of the fast fallers. some less than others. for instance you can only dthrow lucas 3 times before he can break out. but with spacies it starts around 25% and ends around 80%...also lvl 9 cpus will use di. and they will mix up their di, which you will see if you practice your chain grabs.

 

[5-oNe]

"Waveshine." Lucas can't jump Oo Magnet but the endlag is so small that it looks like it.

Also - Down Throw to Dair Spike if your opponent DI's away. Legit stuff.

lucas can jump out of his magnet, which can let him do aerials almost instantly out of magnet, "multishine" and "waveshine"

 

[Player -0]

lucas can jump out of his magnet, which can let him do aerials almost instantly out of magnet, "multishine" and "waveshine"

If you hold the magnet and try to jump it doesn't work, hence magnet is not jump cancel able.