Pit the Punisher frame data punishment

[Katana_koden]

This is a new look into how well I believe pit is good at punishing your opponent according to his move sets. If not only that, it will help someone not do the research, I'll try doing some of it for you.

Every move has a cool down. The time it takes before you can do another attack.

If you understand some frame data- shielding come on frame 1, but it take 7 frames to react after letting it go. (shield lag)

While in shield, you can jump instantly out of shield without shield lag. Though you jump out of shield, it takes 5 frames to get into the air. The advantage of jumping is 2 only frames.

When you jump slightly from the ground you receive landing lag.
There is soft landing lag which is (need to test) frames. Like a short hop.

There is hard landing lag which is (need to test) frames. Like fast falling, or landing from high places.

When hit by certain moves, you are slightly sent in the air. If you touch the ground you receive landing hard landing lag. Luigi's jab is a good example.


I will list the character's attack followed by what pit can do to punish it asides from a grab.
Unshielded-miss or wrong direction
Shielded- after releasing shield- if it didn't work for unshielded, its not gonna work here.
Jumped- doing an aerial instead

Lets make this easier for me, dtilt hits as just fast as our smashes.


Metaknight seems like a good starter.

Fast, very fast. If you can pull out your fastest with his, then your are good. Limited mainly to a few main moves, jabs, utilts, nairs, dtilts.

Spoiler

Neutral A-
its ridiculous, you can easily see it and punish it with almost anything.

Down tilt-
Unshielded- jab, utilt, dtilt, all smashes, Nair
Shielded- utilt
Jumped-Nair

F tilt- all hits can be done on the 2nd and 3rd, but for the first
Unshielded- all except b moves
Shielded- utilt
Jumped- nair

U tilt-
Unshielded- all except b moves
Shielded- all standin moves except f tilt
Jumped- all except fair

dash attack-
Unshielded- all even an arrow
Shielded- jab, utilt
Jumped- nair

F smash-
Unshielded- all except arrow and fair
Shielded- none
Jumped- none

D smash-
Unshielded- all even arrow
Shielded- front all except b moves a f tilt> back- jab, utilt
Jumped- front nair, > back- none

U smash-
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all except arrow
Jumped- all

Nair-
technically none, but you can try out prioritizing it.
other stuff is weird data

Fair-
Air- all
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all except arrow
Jump- all
Landed
Unshielded- jab, utilt, dtilt, ftilt, side b
Shielded- jab, utilt, dtilt,
Jump- nair

Bair-
Air- all
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all except arrow
Jump- all
Landed
Unshielded- jab, utilt, dtilt
Shielded- utilt
Jump- nair


Dair-
Air- all
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all except arrow
Jump- all
Landed
Unshielded- jab, utilt, dtilt, ftilt, side b
Shielded- jab, utilt, dtilt,
Jump- nair

U air-
nair only

Tornado-
all

Shuddle loop, can be canceled and no data on drill.

Snake

Spoiler

All lot of shield knock back it what makes him harder to punish, get around that and the punishment is all yours.

Neutral A jab 1
Unshielded- utilt, jab, nair
Shielded- utilt
Jump- nair

sorry cant complete other jabs

F tilt 1
Unshielded- all even arrow
Shielded- all except arrow
Jump- all

sorry cant complete other tilt hit (don't know latest hitbox)

U Tilt
Unshielded- all even arrow
Shielded- all except f-tilt and b moves
Jump- all aerials

D Tilt
Unshielded- all even arrow
Shielded- all except b moves
Jump- all aerials

F Smash
Unshielded- all even arrow
Shielded- all even arrow
Jump- all aerials

Up Smash till the mortar leaves
Unshielded- all even arrow
Shielded- all A moves, barely f tilt
Jump- all, barely f air

D smash lol, lets just say hit em before they finish

Nair-
nair

F air
all aerials

B air
all aerials

U air
all aerials

D air
all except fair, but we won't fair under him right?

Diddy Kong

Spoiler

Fast and lags but his most punishable ones has some some shield knock back.

Jab 1 always assuming if canceled
Unshielded- all attack moves, no arrow
Shielded- all attacks except f tilt and b moves
Jump- all aerials except fair.

Jab 2 assuming if canceled
Unshielded- all attacks except B moves
Shielded- all except f tilt
Jump- all except fair

Jab 3 its infinate

Dash Attack!! seemed virtually lagless
Unshielded- all a moves except f tilt
Shielded- jab, u tilt, somehow all smashes
Jump- nair

Utilt
Unshielded- only all a moves
Shielded- all a moves except f tilt
Jump- all aerial except fair

Dtilt
Unshielded- only all a moves
Shielded- all a moves except f tilt
Jump- all aerials except fair

F tilt
Unshielded- all moves, even arrow
Shielded- all even arrow
Jump- all

Up Smash
Unshielded- all even arrow
Shielded- all even arrow
Jump- all

D Smash front
Unshielded- all even a late arrow
Shielded- all even an arrow
Jump- all

D Smash back
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all
Jump- all

F Smash
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all
Jump- all

Nair
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all
Jump- all
Auto Canceled
Unshielded- all except F tilt and b moves
Shielded- jab, utilt, d tilt , smashes
Jump- nair

Bair
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all except b moves
Jump- all aerials
Auto canceled
Unshielded- all except B moves
Shielded- jab, utilt, d tilt
Jump- nair

Dair
all

Fair
all

U Air
all

Marth

Speed, range, and knockback.

Spoiler

Jab 1
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all except f tilt and b moves
Jump- all except fair
Tipper
Shielded- jab, d tilt, utilt
Jump- all aerials except fair and dair.

Jab 2
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all except fair and b moves
Jump- all except fair
Tipper
Shielded- jab, utilt, dtilt
Jump- nair

F tilt
Unshielded- all
Shielded- jab, dtilt, utilt
Jump- nair
Tipper
Shielded- utilt
Jump- nair

U tilt
Unshielded- all
Shielded- jab, utilt, dtilt
Jump- nair, dair, bair, u air
Tipper
Shielded- jab, utilt, dtilt
Jump- nair

D tilt
Unshielded- jab, utilt, dtilt
Shielded- none
Jump- none

F Smash
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all except arrow
Jump- all
Tipper
Shielded- all except arrow
Jump- all

Up Smash
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all except arrow
Jump- all
Tipper
Shielded- all except f tilt
Jump- all

D Smash front
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all
Jump-all

D smash back
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all
Jump- all
Tipper
Shielded- all
Jump- all

Nair
Air- all
Unshielded- all
Shielded- utilt, dtilt, jab
Jump- all
Tipper
Shielded- jab, utilt, dtilt
Jump- dair, nair, uair, bair
Landed
Unshielded- jab, utilt, dtilt
Shielded- none
Jump- none
Tipper
Shielded- disadvantage
Jump- disadvantage

Fair
Air- all
Unshielded- all
Shielded- jab, utilt, dtilt
Jump- nair
Tipper
Shielded- jab, utilt
Jump-nair
Landed
Unshielded- jab, utilt, dtilt
Shielded- none
Jump- none
Tipper
Shielded- disadvantage
Jump- disadvantage

Bair
Air- all
Unshielded- all
Shielded- utilt, dtilt, jab
Jump- nair, bair, dair
Tipper
Shielded- jab, utilt, dtilt
Jump- nair
Landed
Unshielded- all
Shielded- utilt
Jump- nair
Tipper
Shielded- none
Jump- none

U air
Air- all
Unshielded- all
Shielded-all except arrow
Jump- all
Tipper
Shielded- all except arrow
Jump- all
Landed most likely to happen
Unshielded- none
Shielded-disadvantage
Jump- disadvantage
Tipper
Shielded- disadvantage
Jump- disadvantage

Dair
Air- all
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all
Jump- all
Tipper
Shielded- all
Jump- all
Landed
Unshielded- all
Shielded-all except ftilt and arrow
Jump- all
Tipper
Shielded- all ftilt except arrow
Jump- all except fair

Falco
Ya so he is faster than us

Spoiler

Jab 1
Unshielded- all except arrow
Shielded- jab, utilt
Jump- nair

Jab 2
no data but you have 0 frames to react if shielded by first jab

Dash Attack
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all
Jump- all

If chained to an up smash, you MUST perfect block the dash attack and react with a jab or up tilt to punish.

D Tilt
Unshielded- all except arrow
Shielded- all except f tilt
Jump- nair, uair, bair

F Tilt
Unshielded- all
Shielded- jab, utilt, dtilt
Jump- all except fair

U Tilt
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all except ftilt and b moves
Jump- all

D Smash
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all
Jump- all

F Smash
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all except arrow
Jump- all

U Smash
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all
Jump- all

No Duration was given on his aerials so Its only landed and counted as final hitbox before grounded.

Nair
Unshielded- jab, utilt, dtilt
Shielded- none
Jump- none

Dair
Unshielded- all except arrow and b moves
Shielded- none
Jump- none

Fair they laughed at this and didn't bother. since it has 33 frames apon landing, then I'll assume all.
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all
Jump- all

Bair
Unshielded- all except arrow
Shielded- utilt
Jump- nair

U Air
Unshielded- all except ftilt and arrow
Shielded- utilt
Jump- nair

Neutral B
none, if PSed uptilt

Reflector
Unshielded- all except arrow
Shielded- all except arrow
Jump- all

SOLO POPO = SOPO

Nana has 6 frames to react after popo, equals 1 jab, or utilt to punish her instead

Spoiler

Jab 1
Unshielded- all even arrow
Shielded- all except f tilt, and arrow
Jump- all aerials

Jab 2
Unshielded- jab utilt, dtilt
Shielded- jab utild, dtilt
Jump- nair

F Tilt
Unshielded- all except arrow
Shielded- jab utilt, dtilt
Jump- all aerials except fair

U Tilt
Unshielded- all even arrow
Shielded- all except arrow
Jump- all aerials

D Tilt
Unshielded- all except arrow
Shielded- jab, utilt, dtilt
Jump- all aerials except fair

Dash Attack
Unshielded- all even arrow
Shielded- all even arrow
Jump- all aerials

F Smash
Unshielded- all even arrow
Shielded- all even arrow
Jump- all aerials

U Smash
Unshielded- all even arrow
Shielded- all even arrow
Jump- all aerials

D Smash
Unshielded- all even arrow
Shielded- all except arrow
Jump- all aerials

Nair
Air- all
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all except arrow and ftilt
Jump- all
Landed
Unshielded- jab, utilt, dtilt, side b, ftilt
Shielded- jab, utilt, dtilt
Jump- nair

U Air
Best to hit while doing the move
Only nair can hit in time afterwards within 5 frames.

Landed
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all
Jump- all

D Air
Air- nair, bair, CHALLANGE IT!
Unshielded- jab, utilt, dtilt
Shielded- utilt
Jump- nair, dair, bair
Landed
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all
Jump- all

F Air
Air- all
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all even arrow
Jump- all
Landed
Unshielded- all except arrow
Shielded- jab, utilt, dtilt
Jump- all

B Air
Air- all
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all except arrow
Jump- all
Landed
Unshielded- all except arrow
Shielded- jab, utilt, dtilt
Jump- nair

Wario
Waha haaa... Why are the fat ones so mobile.

Spoiler

Jab 1
Unshielded- jab, utilt, dtilt
Shielded- utilt
Jump- nair

Jab 2
Unshielded- all except arrow
Shielded- jab, utilt, dtilt
Jump- nair, dair, bair

Dash Attack
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all
Jump- all

D Tilt
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all except arrow
Jump- all

F Tilt
Unshielded- all except arrow
Shielded- jab, utilt, dtilt
Jump- nair, bair, dair

U Tilt
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all except arrow
Jump- all

D Smash
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all
Jump- all

F Smash
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all
Jump- all

U Smash
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all except arrow
Jump- all

No Duration was given on his aerials so Its only landed and counted as final hitbox before grounded.

Nair 1 has 2 hit boxes
Unshielded- jab, utilt, dtilt
Shielded- none
Jump- none


Nair 2
Unshielded- jab, utilt, dtilt
Shielded- none
Jump- none


Dair
Unshielded- all except arrow
Shielded- jab, utilt, dtilt
Jump- nair, bair, dair
Auto canceled
Unshielded- none
Shielded- none
Jump- none


Fair
Unshielded- jab, utilt, dtilt, side B
Shielded- jab, utilt, dtilt
Jump- nair
Auto canceled
Unshielded- all
Shielded- jab, utilt, dtilt, side B
Jump- all

Bair
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all
Jump- all
Auto canceled
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all except arrow
Jump- all

U Air
Unshielded- none
Shielded- none
Jump- none
Auto canceled
Unshielded- all
Shielded- all except arrow
Jump- all

more to come soon and eliminate the unpractical ex: uair hitting grounded metaknight. As I do the data, I learn a bit of the match up.

 

[Coffee™]

This is a really good thread. Keep it up

My only issue is that you should organize it a little better so it becomes easier to read when you add multiple characters. Consider putting each characters moves in between "[C.ode][/Code]"

Also, lol @ thread title.

 

[Admiral Pit]

I do look forward to seeing many great improvements to this new, interesting thread. It could help us deal with certain things.

 

[MysteriousSilver]

Good info!

Good to look for places to throw in Ftilt, hard land to move but it sends them and a wonderfully horrible angle that's easy to edgegaurd.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Nice thread. This has potential. Its possible to punish a shielded MK nair w/ utilt from my experiences.

 

[Katana_koden]

Nice thread. This has potential. Its possible to punish a shielded MK nair w/ utilt from my experiences.

That's because his nair hits all around, then the hit box circles him like the fire on charizard's tail spinning around him.

 

[Arzengel]

hmm correct me i i'm wrong but in order to do an u-smash or u-tilt out of a shield you have to let the UP tilt configured as a JUMP option? cause i believe it won't work otherwise. (Most smashers put the UP tab JUMP OFF)

 

[Katana_koden]

hmm correct me i i'm wrong but in order to do an u-smash or u-tilt out of a shield you have to let the UP tilt configured as a JUMP option? cause i believe it won't work otherwise. (Most smashers put the UP tab JUMP OFF)

You can cancel a jump animation with up smash. I don't know about up tilt. Its only harder without Tap Jump because you have you to press the jump button and then the command within 5 frames.

 

[Cha0tic NiGhTmArE]

I like the idea! good thread :]

 

[Cha0tic NiGhTmArE]

is the the shielded portion assuming you PS, or just shield it in general? because i know against marth you have a few more options if you PS the fair.

 

[Katana_koden]

is the the shielded portion assuming you PS, or just shield it in general? because i know against marth you have a few more options if you PS the fair.

Normal shield, since you are less likely to PS most attacks.

 

[Kuro~]

what are we to do discuss in here katana id like to keep this alive if for anything for the data it possesses

 

[Katana_koden]

Since this is based on pure frame data, maybe help sort out the impractical movesets.

Unshielded might be removed, maybe left for wiffed aerials?

This thread is old, so I will have to adjust and fix it more comforting for the eyes and searches.

 

[dskank]

great thread