Social PK Love - Lucas Social Thread: “Inside the mailbox was absolutely nothing”

[samsparta21]

A moves are totally different. Special moves are similar, but not identical. Do you think Luigi should be cut too?

At least Luigi has a different Down+B. Although I think Luigi should have a bit more move diversity as well.

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

I've seen play through of mother 3. Nice game but mother just doesn't deserve 2 reps for being a very small and obscure series.

I would love to see other series shine and have spotlight. With Lucas cut an unrepped series could have a chance to shine. I mean im sad squirtle and ivysaur are cut especially ivysaur but that's life you can't get everything you like.

Ness is okay. He isn't going anywhere.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

I can't wait till he is revealed.

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

I can't wait til PAC man, Ridley, Mii and chorus Kids are revealed.

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

If Lucas is revealed then that's hopefully a sign that my beloved Ivysaur isn't cut.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

I can't wait til PAC man, Ridley, Mii and chorus Kids are revealed.

This is kind of unrelated, but I hope that even the newcomers who get revealed after the game's release, get their own trailers. A Chorus Kids trailer would be hype.

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

This is kind of unrelated, but I hope that even the newcomers who get revealed after the game's release, get their own trailers. A Chorus Kids trailer would be hype.

I would be bit sad if they didn't get one. It would be nice to see other Nintendo characters interact with them in thier trailer

 

[samsparta21]

Gematsu leak please be true. I want mah Shulk.

 

[Commander Claus]

D'aww it's no longer even about Lucas. I still have this sad feeling that he'll get the ol boot.

 

[Frontiers]

Yeah but lucas in mother 3 is more of a defense buff character while ness was more of attacker I hope the moveset a reflect this

 

[Spazzy_D]

Yeah but lucas in mother 3 is more of a defense buff character while ness was more of attacker I hope the moveset a reflect this

Ness was also a buff character to a degree. Now that I think about it he was basically a Paladin, he had loads of HP, he hit pretty hard, and he had decent but not great healing and support "magic." In any case, how they play in the game isn't how they play in Smash so it doesn't have a real effect on his chances.

 

[Frontiers]

I hope his neutral b is a buff like project m but with customizable movesets you can change it from maybe defense to offense

 

[Rymi]

They could change his moveset he has other elements to use other then a ness clone

 

[Frontiers]

This is my plan for specials
Neutral b is a buff move
Side b is pk ice like his regular b
Up b pk thunder
Down b is more useful psi magnet and that when in the air you slightly move to help recover

 

[LancerStaff]

Not sure if it's been said, but...
http://earthboundcentral.com/2013/04/mother-3-and-japanese-fans-revisited/
To say Lucas has a significant hatedom would be... An understatement.
Dunno, Lucas is probably the only character who gets significant hate from his own series' fans. This definitely effects his inclusion IMO.

 

[Eight Melodies]

Not sure if it's been said, but...
http://earthboundcentral.com/2013/04/mother-3-and-japanese-fans-revisited/
To say Lucas has a significant hatedom would be... An understatement.
Dunno, Lucas is probably the only character who gets significant hate from his own series' fans. This definitely effects his inclusion IMO.

I still find it very ironic that Lucas and Mother 3 are much more well liked outside Japan when it's never been officially released outside it.

But I don't think being disliked by fans is much of a factor into being cut, if it was, Jigglypuff wouldn't have even made it to Melee.

 

[LancerStaff]

I still find it very ironic that Lucas and Mother 3 are much more well liked outside Japan when it's never been officially released outside it.

But I don't think being disliked by fans is much of a factor into being cut, if it was, Jigglypuff wouldn't have even made it to Melee.

She is/was popular in Japan, and doesn't have a significant hatedom coming from the series of origin.

 

[verysleepywolf]

I'm pretty sure the hatedom only comes from players that wanted another title that was just like Mother 2. Not all of those comments were negative but the ones that actually were seemed brash to me.

Is hatedom really a reason to be cut anyways?

 

[PKBeam]

The battle system wasn't necessarily better or worse anyway. You didn't have as much problems with healing and the game made you use stats and shield PSI more.

Mother 3 was made publicly available in Japan, instead of in other countries where it was not as widespread. More people of less intelligence had convenience access to it in Japan. Most of the people who made the more hateful comments were simply expecting a slightly edited Earthbound, so when a game tailored for a slightly different audience comes out, they hate on it and start finding ridiculous flaws, I believe I smelled a hint of someone implying that Earthbound's plot was better than Mother 3's, completely BS had you actually played the two.

And Lucas has potential for a moveset almost entirely different from Ness'.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I actually liked Earthbound' plot more than Mother 3's, but that's because I don't think they handled the whole family thing very well by killing off the mother before we could even begin to care about anyone, and when you can't get into that almost the whole story is ruined. The only really enjoyable part of Mother 3's story were the Pigmasks imo, which remains one of the best villain teams ever, they were ****ing hilarious while also quite threatening.

Mother 3 is still a very good game, definitely better than Mother 1 too, but it misstepped quite some places imo, especially with how streamlined it was, I only really got invested in it from Chapter 7 and forth. It's not my love for Earthbound that drags Mother 3 down for me, it simply has some general issues imo.

 

[PKBeam]

You may like it better but that doesn't actually make it better.

 

[PKNinja95]

I honestly thought Mother 3 was better

 

[LancerStaff]

I'm pretty sure the hatedom only comes from players that wanted another title that was just like Mother 2. Not all of those comments were negative but the ones that actually were seemed brash to me.

Is hatedom really a reason to be cut anyways?

Really, is it? Think about it, why would you specifically add in a character that's hated by roughly half of the fans of the series?

The battle system wasn't necessarily better or worse anyway. You didn't have as much problems with healing and the game made you use stats and shield PSI more.

Mother 3 was made publicly available in Japan, instead of in other countries where it was not as widespread. More people of less intelligence had convenience access to it in Japan. Most of the people who made the more hateful comments were simply expecting a slightly edited Earthbound, so when a game tailored for a slightly different audience comes out, they hate on it and start finding ridiculous flaws, I believe I smelled a hint of someone implying that Earthbound's plot was better than Mother 3's, completely BS had you actually played the two.

And Lucas has potential for a moveset almost entirely different from Ness'.

So you're effectively saying people who hate Mother 3 are stupid? Peh. Mother 3 is effectively in the same place Brawl is, except both sides are equal. Comparing things such as the plot simply doesn't work, because one isn't objectively better.

 

[verysleepywolf]

@ MasterOfKnees I can understand the greater appreciation of Earthbound's story over Mother 3's but I feel as though Earthbound almost didn't even have a story in comparison, the changes and events that occured in Earthbound seemed more like vehicles to carry the player through the game and present us with in-the-moment variety, Mother 3 had more the structure of a film or novel in that none of the characters were really static and the environments changed over time. Killing a character we barely know is usually just a tool to bring out emotions in the other characters, but the small moments like the letter to Flint and even just watching the characters interact on the naming screen effected me considerably, maybe I'm the only one but I felt an instant connection with the characters and was heavily stirred by the first chapter.

I really want Lucas back if only because he represents one of my all-time favorite games, removing all favoritisms and biases he really is unnecessary but I still feel very strongly about Mother 3 and just hope it doesn't fade away into obscurity underneath it's massively more popular older brother.

@ LancerStaff Sakurai stated that he includes characters that he feels will make people want to play the game. So you are probably right, we'll see no Tingle or Slippy, etc. But as previously stated by multiple users Sakurai tends to show favoritism towards Itoi-san's creations.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

You may like it better but that doesn't actually make it better.

That's entirely subjective. I don't feel that between these two kinds of stories there's an objectively better one, because they're simply two different ways of telling stories. Earthbound's story is mostly defined by events but without much character interaction per say, which does leave room for interpretation but also makes the characters feel rather flat in the end. Mother 3 follows a much more standard way of storytelling, which does give us more character interaction and development, but as a result also spins it into the standard story rules and frames, which makes it more suspectible to actual problems as opposed to its vague counterpart.

It's entirely up to which style you prefer, both have their benefits and downsides, there's no objectively better one between these.

I should probably add that I don't want Lucas to be cut either. Like I said, I still think Mother 3 is a good game despite my problems with it, and the Mother universe really is the most bizarre and unique one to be represented in Smash, it'd be a shame to see its representation be made smaller. Mother 3 has some crazy stage potential too, I'd absolutely love a stage made from the Chimera Lab. Plus, I really want to see if they can make Lucas differ a bit from Ness with his specials, I really want to see how something like PK Ground could work in Smash for example.

 

[PKBeam]

Really, is it? Think about it, why would you specifically add in a character that's hated by roughly half of the fans of the series?

So you're effectively saying people who hate Mother 3 are stupid? Peh. Mother 3 is effectively in the same place Brawl is, except both sides are equal. Comparing things such as the plot simply doesn't work, because one isn't objectively better.

I don't know how you came to that conclusion, but no. Since it was more available, there were more of the certain types of people who hate it, that are less prominent outside of Japan. Some people LIKE Earthbound's plot better but that doesn't change the fact that Mother 3 had a more developed plot with more developed characters and better themes and ideas, just like how Paper Mario clearly has a better plot than Super Mario Bros.

Personal preferences aside, a more developed plot is simply a better one.

 

[verysleepywolf]

I'm inclined to agree with PKBeam but even a "better" plot (dynamic plot, thematic messages, twists, character development) can be considered less charming than something simple like Earthbound if that is what the individual desires. Our personalities characterize what fictions we enjoy and what fictions we consider too ambitious/basic.

 

[Eight Melodies]

I like Earthbound and Mother 3 about equally, as I feel that, while the two are very different, they did what each set out to do very well.

 

[PKBeam]

I'm inclined to agree with PKBeam but even a "better" plot (dynamic plot, thematic messages, twists, character development) can be considered less charming than something simple like Earthbound if that is what the individual desires. Our personalities characterize what fictions we enjoy and what fictions we consider too ambitious/basic.

Yes, but those are personal views. Many people will consider Earthbound's plot to be better, but that's different from the fact.

Of course some people will prefer Super Mario Bros. to New Super Mario Bros. U but that doesn't affect the fact that NSMBU is a better game.

EDIT: Let me make myself clear.
One thing will be superior to the other unless both are exactly the same. An example is how is "better" than , whether that is your opinion or not.

People start using phrases such as "I personally prefer" and "some people will like ___ better than ___" when two things are harder to distinguish. Since Earthbound and Mother 3 have different plots/settings/battle systems etc. we should be able to assume that they are not equally good and that one is better than the other

When people ask something like "Do I look good in this shirt", then that is a situation involving opinion.
When people ask something like "Is A better than B", then this is a situation involving fact.

Opinions do not and should not change the facts.
My opinion/belief is that Mother 3's plot is better than Earthbound's.
Some people will have a contrary opinion to mine.

But at the end, there is a clear answer to this that does not involve a person's opinion.
So you can't say "A is not necessarily better than B because some people like B more"

If this were true, and would now be the best characters in Brawl.

 

[LancerStaff]

Yes, but those are personal views. Many people will consider Earthbound's plot to be better, but that's different from the fact.

Of course some people will prefer Super Mario Bros. to New Super Mario Bros. U but that doesn't affect the fact that NSMBU is a better game.

EDIT: Let me make myself clear.
One thing will be superior to the other unless both are exactly the same. An example is how is "better" than , whether that is your opinion or not.

People start using phrases such as "I personally prefer" and "some people will like ___ better than ___" when two things are harder to distinguish. Since Earthbound and Mother 3 have different plots/settings/battle systems etc. we should be able to assume that they are not equally good and that one is better than the other

When people ask something like "Do I look good in this shirt", then that is a situation involving opinion.
When people ask something like "Is A better than B", then this is a situation involving fact.

Opinions do not and should not change the facts.
My opinion/belief is that Mother 3's plot is better than Earthbound's.
Some people will have a contrary opinion to mine.

But at the end, there is a clear answer to this that does not involve a person's opinion.
So you can't say "A is not necessarily better than B because some people like B more"

If this were true, and would now be the best characters in Brawl.

Whereas a character's ranking can be 99% proven, a video game's merit cannot. It's as simple as that. There is no factual better game, ever.

 

[PKBeam]

Whereas a character's ranking can be 99% proven,

Nope. There is some discrepancy of the positions of a few characters, +/- 5 spaces, which I'm sure does not count for as little as 1%.

a video game's merit cannot. It's as simple as that. There is no factual better game, ever.

It's simply harder to distinguish. You wouldn't say that something like Ice Climber is BETTER than, say, NSMB. U.
When it comes to games like NSMB. U and NSL. U, it's harder to distinguish, but it's still possible to do so.
What factor resides in video games, but not fighting characters that makes it impossible to distinguish between their peers?

As long as that word: better
is used, there are two possible outcomes:

1. One game is better than another.
2. They are both equal.

It's certainly POSSIBLE to distinguish between games (or at least make an accurate conclusion) although the likelihood of that happening may be very slim.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

@ LancerStaff

You raise an interesting point, but I'm going to bring up a counterpoint.

How do they like Lucas in Smash Bros?

And do they dislike the game, but actually love Lucas? All I read was stuff about Mother 3 and nothing about Lucas himself. It could be a "Hate Other M but love Anthony" kind of situation.

 

[LancerStaff]

Nope. There is some discrepancy of the positions of a few characters, +/- 5 spaces, which I'm sure does not count for as little as 1%.

It's simply harder to distinguish. You wouldn't say that something like Ice Climber is BETTER than, say, NSMB. U.
When it comes to games like NSMB. U and NSL. U, it's harder to distinguish, but it's still possible to do so.
What factor resides in video games, but not fighting characters that makes it impossible to distinguish between their peers?

As long as that word: better
is used, there are two possible outcomes:

1. One game is better than another.
2. They are both equal.

It's certainly POSSIBLE to distinguish between games (or at least make an accurate conclusion) although the likelihood of that happening may be very slim.

Can't people just live with guesstimates on this site?! Every single time I say "99% of the time..." somebody wants me to do the math! It's just a saying. Do want me to factually prove that Ganondorf literally sucks when I say "Ganondorf sucks"? No. /endrant

Anyway, it's truly impossible. Especially for a game that roughly half of it's players hate. There's no such thing as objectively rating video games, or movies, or books, or food, or ANYTHING. 'Better' is an opinion. Simple as that. Tier lists are just the current potential, and can't be proven entirely.

@ LancerStaff

You raise an interesting point, but I'm going to bring up a counterpoint.

How do they like Lucas in Smash Bros?

And do they dislike the game, but actually love Lucas? All I read was stuff about Mother 3 and nothing about Lucas himself. It could be a "Hate Other M but love Anthony" kind of situation.

It's something about hating the story, and since Lucas is the character the plot revolves around...

 

[TumblrFamous]

So, if Lucas is in the game, when do y'all think he'll be revealed? E3?

 

[Deleted member]

If Lucas is still in the game, I expect him to be a starter with Ness (and Falcon) still being hidden, so either E3 or sometime before E3 and release, though considering the lack of Mother content thus far (other than Saturn and Franklin Badge) E3 is probably a better guess.

I would absolutely love it if ICs, MK, Wario, and Lucas were revealed at E3, but I get the feeling I'll be shooting myself in the foot with this speculah.

 

[Louie G.]

I think that Ness will be starter this time with Lucas as an unlockable. I don't know, just a gut feeling.

Ness is basically the poster boy of Mother in Smash Bros, essentially the face of the series and one of the most iconic Smashers.
He is also high priority, normally. He was higher than Lucas in Brawl but still.
He just makes more sense IMO. And with Earthbound on VC Ness is back to being the most recent protagonist, kinda.

 

[Substitution]

Knowing Sakurai, he'll be a starter, like in Brawl.
Unless Sakurai pulls a Melee and makes Ness a starter, then I see Lucas unlockable.

 

[Eight Melodies]

Lucas will be revealed at E3 if he's in the game, or Ness if he's a starter instead. One of the two will.

 

[Swift Fox]

Actually I think they won't be seen in E3 because they have good anniversaries (25th for Mother and 20th for Mother 2) after E3.

Those who do not have any more game releases/anniversaries will be seen in E3 or become hidden characters.

 

[PKBeam]

Anyway, it's truly impossible. Especially for a game that roughly half of it's players hate. There's no such thing as objectively rating video games, or movies, or books, or food, or ANYTHING. 'Better' is an opinion. Simple as that. Tier lists are just the current potential, and can't be proven entirely.

If you can't make a logical argument or even support it then it's better to just not say anything.