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playin with some nanerz

Dakpo

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 5, 2009
Messages
1,912
Location
Denton, Texas
Ok so im a zss main *inb4gettingflamed*
BUT luigi is my secondary. My worst match is Diddy when i play as zss.
Well i just so happens my secondary has advantage against my personal worst zss match up.
So im not sure how to go about picking up the nanerz safely. can you pick them up *from the ground* using nair or dair. How would i go about practicing it? also can you SDI/TDI out of Diddys dash attack.
 

Dakpo

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 5, 2009
Messages
1,912
Location
Denton, Texas
if your fighting diddy with luigi....how do you pick up nannerz without slowly walking up to it and pressing A.-__- i know you can dash attack but that takes a while and is easy to punish
 

elheber

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 23, 2008
Messages
1,074
Location
Los Angeles, California
NNID
elheber
It's all about pressing A when you're just about to slip on them, no matter what. As Luigi, you're gonna have to train yourself to walk more than you dash... for many many reasons. Zamus has great out of dash options and attack strings (she's one of my 2 secondaries), but with Luigi... well... his out of dash options suck turkey balls.


So, yeah you should just get your timing down by landing on the monkey foreskins with nAir (your best "land on bananas" aerial), and by walking full speed over them and jabbing/fTilting. It's about timing more than anything... and even though the dash attack reeks of the aforementioned turkey giblets, going into the dash attack is better than slipping. The point is: lrn2walk and lrn2timetheApressnomatterwhat.
 

ALiAsVee

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
739
if your fighting diddy with luigi....how do you pick up nannerz without slowly walking up to it and pressing A.-__- i know you can dash attack but that takes a while and is easy to punish
Well You can run up to catch the bananas by Pressing A right when you hit the banana. You'll take a step forward but you'll cancel the Dash Attack by picking up the banana. I'm not sure about the timing, because I don't fight too many diddies, but I can say it's possible to do that if you need to run up and grab the banana quickly.

Nair is definitely your best bet here because it stays out so long, but I've caught bananas with Fair too. The idea on using Nair is that the Diddy throws bananas at medium - ish range to come in with w.e shenanigans they follow up their bananas on. You can catch, FF/AD away, and then zone them with fireballs, forcing them to the ground. Once on the ground, you can glidetoss the banana towards them for your own shenanigans or if you need to retreat glide toss away (Refer to Koga's Guide on this).

On an extended note, Bananas give you great mobility with the glidetoss, so it might be in your favor to hold on to one for a bit before disposing of it. If you smell immediate follow up from the banana toss, you can glide toss back to rest the situation. If they hesitate, you can SH a fireball/Tossed Banana to pressure them for a quick grab combo.

If you want to get under them to juggle them, I'd suggest SH banana > Tornado follow up, assuming they get hit by the banana in the first place. Albeit situational, Cyclone is a great move to use when they least expect it to initiate aerial strings.

This is all theory - crafting though, since the last Diddy I played was ADHD's in a team friendly, and I got whooped xD. The general consensus is that Luigi beats Diddy because they can't do their shenanigans, a smart Diddy would adjust their gameplay to a more defensive style in the wake of a luigi (depending on match up experience).
 

CR4SH

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
1,814
Location
Louisville Ky.
Im crash, I'm a luigi main/diddy secondary.

First of all, an important note is that ALL of luigi's aerials autocancel. Also, all of luigi's aerials pick up bananas. The best way of picking up a banana in a landing state is luigi's nair. You can time it terribly and it picks up the nanner anyway.

As for elh's point that "dash attacking is better than slipping on a banana." I disagree. Dash attack, against a good player that knows the matchup, always gets you hit. Wait, caveat, if they're on or near the stage. In all circumstances where they're on or near the stage, you get hit. Tech rolling a banana back usually does not.

My favorite thing to do , is short hop double fair, or double fair to nair, spamming near diddy kong. Its very hard for diddy to fit a banana in the middle of this without getting it caught. Also, if you catch a peanut on mistake, or by necessity, get rid of it as soon as you can, luigi's glide toss isn't THAT good (good enough to make having a peanut a good thing, I mean). Once you have one or both bananas, try to put them in a place that makes it hard for the diddy to get to them. In other words, put yourself in between the diddy and his nanners. On big stages, in other words his counterpicks, a good way to do this is to leave them on the stage behind you. On small stages, put them in the air with uthrows.

Most diddy's are almost hard wired to get their bananas back, or to get in a position of banana control. All but the best or worst diddys feel very very vulnerable when they are out of control of their bananas and have no way of bringing out new ones. On the other hand, all but the very worst of diddy kongs are able to exploit you for throwing their bananas back to them.

When diddy does not have his bananas, you **** his moveset. ****. Move for move, diddy is luigi jr.. And you have the added benefit of being able to predict the fact that he wants to get back to his bananas. If he goes into the air, hurt him. If he tries to roll, hurt him. If he dash attacks, you can shield grab it (!!!). Note about that, throw him away from the bananas, not a dthrow for combos. If he goes for a dash grab, spot dodge shoryu **** him. If he goes for a flip, bair him. If he spams peanuts, powershield them (having a peanut in your hand pretty much ***** your options). Another note, sh fireball to landing fireball rinse repeat covers most options. Spam that for a reaction. Punish the reaction.

Tldr version
step 1: get the nanners
step 2: neutralize the nanners
step 3: **** diddy for wanting nanners

TLTLDR version
:laugh:

P.S. This **** did NOT work on AZ. This **** almost worked on sai90. This **** ***** the piss out of every other diddy i've played (most of whom are better than sai90, none of whom are better than alphazealot.). AZ is just too much better than me. Sai90 has a ridiculous playstyle and somehow does magical things in the luigi matchup (but I still win). Against a much better diddy (az) I just played regular, autoweeg, and did quite well, but still lost. If you run up against a diddy kong that can predict 3 moves in advance where you're going to land, and have a banana there, you lose, sorry.
 

ALiAsVee

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
739
That helped me out with the match up, thanks Crash n_n V.

I laughed when you called Diddy Luigi Jr. xDD
 

PhantomX

WarioMan
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
10,683
Location
Round Rock, Texas
Banana game basically entirely revolves around grabbing them with the Z button.

Like, you can land on them/fly through them while hit and pick them with the Z button, plus Z drop mindgames, etc. It's pretty amazing.
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
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Oct 13, 2007
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12,542
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RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
You could always z-grab the naners.
I was kinda about to say that but anyhow, what this guy said.

Get really good timing with the Z button. Hop around a lot and press Z whenever you're near a Banana. Or pretend you're going to waveland if they're on the ground.

Oh and D-air is good too.
 

Dakpo

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 5, 2009
Messages
1,912
Location
Denton, Texas
what do you guys think of thowing the nannerz of the stage? i mean it gets rid of the nanner for a brief moment., because when i throw it back, usually, they just end up with the nanner and **** face. also if i make them pull out a new one i think that would be an easy chance to tornado rush them and punish, grab the banana they just pulled out while they are getting out of the hit stun. Throw it off the side rinse and repeat. my point being, is that its pretty hard to use the banana with out it turning back into the diddy's grubby hand
 

CRASHiC

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
7,267
Location
Haiti Gonna Hait
I wouldn't recommended it.
It gets him the ability to make a new naner, and gets rid of your ability to control her naners, which is key to winning against a Diddy.
 

KoRoBeNiKi

Smash Hero
Writing Team
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Apr 26, 2007
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Brooklyn, NY
Slippi.gg
KORO#668
I have done this multiple times...most recently vs AfroChimpy

Down throw with nana into down smash...works well.
 

Praxis

Smash Hero
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
6,165
Location
Spokane, WA
Not one person has mentioned catching the grounded banana with an airdodge yet.

Noobs.
 

TreK

Is "that guy"
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
2,960
Location
France
maybe because huh... it's obvious ? =/
like... even more than sakurai to shoryuken XD
 
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