Ok so my next door neighbor introduced me to the game. Now i can't stop playing. I really really want to beat him. We play together all the time and i consider both of us to play on a reasonably high level. Anyway... he plays ganondorf while i use fox, falco, sheik, and marth. I have trouble comboing ganon because he doesn't fall very fast and if he's in the air to long i'll get hit with the d-air (which pisses me off so much). Also i have trouble countering his b-air. Ganon's b-air just seems to have such high priority and range and always wins out over pretty much any move i try. Lastly, he always interupts my recovery with that darn b-air and i have trouble getting back on the stage. What do you guys think is a good anti-ganon character? What are some good strats for stopping his high priority and killing power? Any combo suggestions? Any help would be appreciated! Thanks.
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PLEASE help me beat my friend!!
- Thread starter stek55
- Start date
HideousBeing
Smash Ace
Can you both do advanced techniques? Do you know what wavedashing is, or do you do it? L-cancelling? If these terms are foreign to you, read the guide to terms. The first step to owning your friends is learning how to do the "advanced techniques."
Mars-
Smash Champion
Don't die. That always works.
Hey thanks for the comment HB. In truth yeah i can both wavedash and l-cancel. Perfectly with falco (my main) and well with the others. Sometimes i mess up the l-cancel though and don't really wavedash all that much. But the weird thing is... he knows these techniques too and doesnt use them (except the occasional wavedash). And still he can beat me.
Lol thanks. That makes sense.
Fletch
Smash Master
Sheik is the best "anti-Ganon" character I can think of, just CG a lot with her and that should be a very easy match.
Yeah i should work on my grab game. I've never really tried chain grabbing with shiek. I do it with marth and i've done it with sheik on Dreamland before but only because of the wind. I'll be sure to work on that. Thanks for the help guys.
HideousBeing
Smash Ace
Well in that case, here are my recommendations:
1. If you say you don't WD all that much, it probably means you don't do it enough. Have a look at any Falco vids here, and you'll see a lot of WDing.
2. Post videos of yourself against your common opponent in the Falco thread, and ask for advice. Visual aids yield the best recommendations.
3. I don't play Falco, but I do know that Ganandorf is quite easy to edgeguard against. When you knock him away from the stage, hang on the edge as he returns, then drop off, popping back up quickly with a midair jump, and a bair -repeatedly. Or you can just edgehog him, if its obvious that he will not be able to make it back without grasping the ledge. (You should be able to tell if you play against Ganandorf often.)
4. If you have problems coming down on him with an arial attack, because he grabs you, you can do several things. First, you can try to always land behind him whether or not he blocks the attack. Second, you can (remember to L-Cancel or it won't work) land and as quick as possible do a spot dodge. I believe you can also (again not sure, I'm not very familiar with him) shine as soon as you hit the ground to bounce him upwards and begin comboing. You mentioned him spamming his dair to prevent you from taking him from underneath. Sheild and grab when he hits you for one way (unless he can L-Cancel > Spot Dodge upon landing.) You should also keep in mind that the move is a long time in coming out. With Falco, you should be able to jump and hit him with your nair before he can pull it off.
That's all I got for now.
Wow thats some good advice HB. I never thought of landing behind or edgeguarding like that. Thanks a ton for all the help. I'll try to find out what i can do about putting some vids up. Sounds like a cool idea. Now time for practice 
Thanks again to everyone that could help
Thanks again to everyone that could help
BAMN
Smash Journeyman
Spam SHL with Falco 
Zeela12
Smash Ace
Pratice combo with comp lvl 9 ganons, then when you're playing, pretend to be losing and "accidently" jump off a couple of times, and at your last stock, take a giant baseball bat and smash his head, then after he passes out, tilt his controller all the way to the right or left, NOTE: IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU TILT THE CONTROLLER, and THIS TRICK WILL NOT WORK on certian stages, so it really is chance on if you win or not.
Rapid_Assassin
Smash Master
Laser him.. A lot.. That should be annoying for him.
Does he use advanced techniques?
Does he use advanced techniques?
uhhhhh right... lol.
Spam lasers huh? That sounds like a good idea. Yeah i try to use SHL into d-air into a shine a lot but its tough to get that close sometimes. I think i may need some work on my mind games.
And no Rapid Assassin he doesn't. It's embarrassing that he can still beat me without L-canceling. I just need to work on getting in range for a shine/drillshine and not getting sheild grabbed. HB's suggestions seemed to make a lot of sense and I'm sure it would get him annoyed if i lasered the hell out of him too
Razgriz
Smash Journeyman
All you have to do is walk up to him, scream "MINDGAMES!" and F-smash him. The louder you scream "MINDGAMES!", the better your mindgames will be. Rinse and repeat. (Works especially well with Marth).
teeman92
Smash Lord
peppy(from starfox) : ROLL! you got to try rolling..
gannon is easy to deal with,with fox, try his b+left or right move as a surprise, or use his up+b move,as fox is charging up tilt the analog stik towards him,dont forget to SMASH,dont hold it if your wide open!
that should help,i wish i can show you me playing...without wavedasing
gannon is easy to deal with,with fox, try his b+left or right move as a surprise, or use his up+b move,as fox is charging up tilt the analog stik towards him,dont forget to SMASH,dont hold it if your wide open!
that should help,i wish i can show you me playing...without wavedasing
-Darc-
Heir to the Monado
I'm surprised you know what waveshining is because apparently you don't know what teching is.
Unless you meant that his opponent is so nubbish that he won't tech. >_>
Pye
Smash Journeyman
Ganon is absurdly easy to combo as Fox or Falco. If Fox gets a grab on Ganon at low %s, it's pretty much done right there. You can get 2-3 uairs in a row off a uthrow. That's a lot of damage, and on some stages (YS anyone?) it's a stock. What's even better is Ganon is easy to waveshine. A waveshine is a free grab on Ganon. Dair -> waveshine -> grab -> uthrow, then proceed to juggle. Ganon's recovery is predictable, too. Shinespike it, or interupt it with bairs. There's absolutely no reason for Ganon to make it back if he's off the stage. You're a hell of a lot faster then him too, so as long as you're smart enough not to walk into his attacks, you should be fine. Try some simple wavedash and dashdance games (like dash towards him and WD back to see if he'll whiff and attack, then go in for a grab, a shine, or an aerial).
As Falco, You can shine -> dair -> utilt at least. Even if he DIs the shine, you can chase with lasers and get back on top of him quickly. PILLAR against Ganon too! It completely shuts down his "gtfo" aerials out of shield that tend to **** Falco if he hits you with them. As for SHL, remember that Ganon has no projectiles. Any time you arent right next to him, you should be shooting lasers. It's that easy. If he jumps onto platforms, follow him with fulljumped double/triple lasers. Don't forget that you don't have to approach him ether! Falco's lasers allow him to control the pace of the match, aswell as his opponent's playstyle. If you sit there and spam lasers, Ganon has to come to you. Your control over the stage is an 11 out of 10; Ganon's is a zero, especially against Falco. Use that laser, and show him you aren't taking **** from him. That's YOUR f*cking stage, not his.
Now I'm not a Shiek player, but I know she can CG Ganon quite severely...but so can he! So be carful around him. If your friend dosn't CG, more power to you. Get a grab in, CG for a while, then just kick his *** with tilts and aerials (sounds like how Shiek plays every match...). Ganon is a good weight to juggle as Shiek, and you can edgeguard him really well thanks to, once again, his predictable and slow recovery. Not much else to say here.
As Marth, it's a bit tough. Ganon's range is almost a match for yours, so your spacing needs to be flawless. However, you can combo Ganon like a beast with your utilt and uair(Lol, like this). It's pretty easy to combo into a dair or an fsmash too. You're quite a bit more maneuverable then he is too, so it comes down to a game of wether you're good enough not to walk into his attacks or not. Try to make him whiff his aerials (which are usualy followed by jabs, so be carful. You said your friend dosn't L-cancel though, right? If not, don't worry about the jabs. They won't come out fast enough), then dashdance into fairs or a grab or something. You can also attempt the spacing game against him, but like I said, you don't severely outrange him like you do most other characters, so that can backfire.
Try this stuff I'm no pro, but I have a Ganon playing friend, so I know what he's like to play against.
EDIT: If you didn't already know about shieldgrabbing, then I agree 100% with the post under mine. Shieldgrabbing allows you to punish almost anything that hits your shield, from any smashes to shffls to dash attacks. If your friend dosn't l-cancel and plays Ganon, you have AMPLE time to shieldgrab him any time he hits your shield with an aerial.
As Falco, You can shine -> dair -> utilt at least. Even if he DIs the shine, you can chase with lasers and get back on top of him quickly. PILLAR against Ganon too! It completely shuts down his "gtfo" aerials out of shield that tend to **** Falco if he hits you with them. As for SHL, remember that Ganon has no projectiles. Any time you arent right next to him, you should be shooting lasers. It's that easy. If he jumps onto platforms, follow him with fulljumped double/triple lasers. Don't forget that you don't have to approach him ether! Falco's lasers allow him to control the pace of the match, aswell as his opponent's playstyle. If you sit there and spam lasers, Ganon has to come to you. Your control over the stage is an 11 out of 10; Ganon's is a zero, especially against Falco. Use that laser, and show him you aren't taking **** from him. That's YOUR f*cking stage, not his.
Now I'm not a Shiek player, but I know she can CG Ganon quite severely...but so can he! So be carful around him. If your friend dosn't CG, more power to you. Get a grab in, CG for a while, then just kick his *** with tilts and aerials (sounds like how Shiek plays every match...). Ganon is a good weight to juggle as Shiek, and you can edgeguard him really well thanks to, once again, his predictable and slow recovery. Not much else to say here.
As Marth, it's a bit tough. Ganon's range is almost a match for yours, so your spacing needs to be flawless. However, you can combo Ganon like a beast with your utilt and uair(Lol, like this). It's pretty easy to combo into a dair or an fsmash too. You're quite a bit more maneuverable then he is too, so it comes down to a game of wether you're good enough not to walk into his attacks or not. Try to make him whiff his aerials (which are usualy followed by jabs, so be carful. You said your friend dosn't L-cancel though, right? If not, don't worry about the jabs. They won't come out fast enough), then dashdance into fairs or a grab or something. You can also attempt the spacing game against him, but like I said, you don't severely outrange him like you do most other characters, so that can backfire.
Try this stuff
I'm no pro, but I have a Ganon playing friend, so I know what he's like to play against.EDIT: If you didn't already know about shieldgrabbing, then I agree 100% with the post under mine. Shieldgrabbing allows you to punish almost anything that hits your shield, from any smashes to shffls to dash attacks. If your friend dosn't l-cancel and plays Ganon, you have AMPLE time to shieldgrab him any time he hits your shield with an aerial.
.22%
Smash Apprentice
seems like everybodys suggestions should be helpful but i got to say that the one thing that should help you most (besides practiceing) is got to be sheild-grabbing.
sheild-grabbing is way to understated. it is a simple tech that will improve your game greatly. all the pros use it and wouldn't be where thay are now with out it.
look at chudat, with his ice climbers he is deadly with grabs and can chain throw and all that but if you watch him play you will see how much he sheild grabs. sounds like the perfect thing to stop your friends air attacks and even ground attacks.
sheild-grabbing is way to understated. it is a simple tech that will improve your game greatly. all the pros use it and wouldn't be where thay are now with out it.
look at chudat, with his ice climbers he is deadly with grabs and can chain throw and all that but if you watch him play you will see how much he sheild grabs. sounds like the perfect thing to stop your friends air attacks and even ground attacks.
Sephiroth31
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- May 20, 2007
- Messages
- 5
Sounds to me like your simply forgetting to dodge his attacks =/
Sephiroth31
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- May 20, 2007
- Messages
- 5
Hmm, where's my siggy?
Does it not display your own siggy, or is something wrong?
Does it not display your own siggy, or is something wrong?
Rapid_Assassin
Smash Master
If you are using quick reply, your sig won't display unless you click the box in the lower right corner. And since i didn't click the box, my sig isn't displayed. But you can find posts of mine where my sig does work.
maximuspita
Smash Ace
flintstone
Smash Cadet
as said, spam shl with falco, and what ever u do, do not practise against lvl 9 computers, they will mess up ur perception of human opponents and screw ur characters skills, instead lvl 1 computers and combo practise.
i play both these characters, and know how much a good gannon can be a pain in the ***, with the uber strength and stuff, but falco has the speed.
as said again, spam shl, get closer using them, he will be very helpless if u can get close with these.
d-tilts are very good for getting him in the air, and if he doesnt d.i then grab, throw down, and shine and start a combo. if he does d.i... then hope he dies the direction ur facing and d-tilt after the throw down grab.
if u want to try being a pain in the *** try chainthrowing forward, i dont garantee this works, but can be useful if u get it.
shuffle d-airs, n-airs and b-airs
if he goes of the stage, u make sure he stays there, whether it be down smashing when he's near the edge, d-airs of the stage (make sure u can recover after) or a favourite of mine, when he's above the stage but needs his up-b to get back, jump behind him and phantism back to the stage, and he will hopefully be meteor smashed to his doom.
one last note, crouch cancel and learn to tech...
if u do all this and still cant win then sadly either somethings wrong or im just uber crap with falco...
i play both these characters, and know how much a good gannon can be a pain in the ***, with the uber strength and stuff, but falco has the speed.
as said again, spam shl, get closer using them, he will be very helpless if u can get close with these.
d-tilts are very good for getting him in the air, and if he doesnt d.i then grab, throw down, and shine and start a combo. if he does d.i... then hope he dies the direction ur facing and d-tilt after the throw down grab.
if u want to try being a pain in the *** try chainthrowing forward, i dont garantee this works, but can be useful if u get it.
shuffle d-airs, n-airs and b-airs
if he goes of the stage, u make sure he stays there, whether it be down smashing when he's near the edge, d-airs of the stage (make sure u can recover after) or a favourite of mine, when he's above the stage but needs his up-b to get back, jump behind him and phantism back to the stage, and he will hopefully be meteor smashed to his doom.
one last note, crouch cancel and learn to tech...
if u do all this and still cant win then sadly either somethings wrong or im just uber crap with falco...
_the_sandman_
Smash Ace
Forget about wavedashing, seriously.
Pick a different character if your choices don't work. Try everyone out, you might find someone that fits better into your style of gameplay.
Pick a different character if your choices don't work. Try everyone out, you might find someone that fits better into your style of gameplay.
RedYoshi92
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2006
- Messages
- 1,561
practice makes perfect.Watch videos of pros playing and see how they react to different situations.
sagemoon
Smash Lord
uhhh shield grabbing always works for me in this match up (and most matchups). It will definately work if hes not l-canceling. I was too lazzy to read every post so if this was covered sorry.
teeman92
Smash Lord
L-canceling and teching helps you outta the "sheik combo" (down tilt, up smash over and over)
Joe_Sumo
Smash Apprentice
Shield grabbing might help a lot. just let him do a move on yer shield and grab him. this works especially well with marth whose grab has an amazing amount of range. also take time to sufficently learn marth's tipper range. ganon should have a very hard time getting inside since marth has a dis jointed hit box. use tilts they have high priority, high range, and minimal lag if your if your good at tippers.
mistassailant5
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2007
- Messages
- 10
gannon is a really powerful charecter, but the game designers have sacrificed his speed for his power. Exploit that weakness. Use a reasonably fast\strong charecter to faces Gannon with. Fox, Falco, Sheik, Marth, and Roy are all great choices.
A Falco User NICE Lemme tell ya When I first Played a good Ganon I learned Head on attacks dont work well and he doesnt recover well from mind games. In HIS case a mind game is Jumping under him when he's in the air then Double jumping Left or right (to avoid the Meteor Smash) and Kicking Him mid ait (usually Bair). Avoid the SH Fair and counter with a SH Dair. Use the SHL and RSHL for distance. Sheild grab and Take advantage of his lag time.
Smple N Clean!
Smple N Clean!
Mischief Maker
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2007
- Messages
- 61
As Roy, I can destroy Ganondorf because of these things:
A)Roy has a longer range.
B)A smart Roy player can counter any of Ganondorf's B moves and send him flying.
C)Roy's sword can EASILY keep him away.
D)He's almost as strong as Ganondorf and MUCH faster.
Knowing that, play defensively. Never let him get close to smack you around, avoid all his strong moves, counter as many moves as you can, and he stands no chance.
A)Roy has a longer range.
B)A smart Roy player can counter any of Ganondorf's B moves and send him flying.
C)Roy's sword can EASILY keep him away.
D)He's almost as strong as Ganondorf and MUCH faster.
Knowing that, play defensively. Never let him get close to smack you around, avoid all his strong moves, counter as many moves as you can, and he stands no chance.