Pokedex Entry 6: Snake

[Magik0722]

um i can beat good snakes too i just said its only the backroll that causes my charizard to lose
i usually hardly use charizard anyway and only in friendlies

With squirtle i take absolutely no risks at all if i am not sure it will hit i do not go for it squirtle is too light and the weight difference is huge so your percent is much more than snakes is and if a snake is at 120 and i am at 70 i consider my self the be losing. it really doesnt help that his moves do so much damage as well. I will go for fair in the air if his he hasnt started his nair, i also jab alot in this matchup to refresh my moves and it is a conservative move and does a respectable 9% which is good considering how easy it is to pull off

after utilt chain when you start going for uairs snakes have the ability to pull out a gernade so often times after my utilt chain i dont go for a uair, instead i just wait on the ground and grab him after he pulls out his gernade and uthrow, then i go for uairs.

I find watergun only semiuseful in this matchup but i dont use it occasionally, being able to stop gernades and push snake closer to the ledge is good but not great.

when approaching with fairs i try to end up behing him or just out of his grab range, if he attemps a grab you can jab combo him and if you do end up in his grab range i like ftilt more than jab as if he continues to shield he will be able to grab you out of jab while ftilt is fast enough to be safe.

 

[SuSa]

I've seen some PT pretty recently plus he's one of my best characters. (<3 Ivysaur)

The thing is his largest advantage is the fact not many Snake's have the matchup experience... so yes, those tricks and options do work. Once you face someone who knows the matchup however.... :/ it seems more and more uphill.... PT simply has less options, and many of the options he does have are limited or need to be executed very well. The Snake has more room to be sloppy in general....

I'm hosting a tourney next saturday. lmao if you feel like driving down to SoCal... :-D

 

[Miles.]

Sigh.

I hope you are going to genesis.

I want to show you my pokemons.

Snake > PT.

But pt has some triicks/options.

 

[MaTA]

i like how everyone is thinking charizard is bad against snake until pokemon master irl says one thing then your all like "oooo yeah guess your right" when i've been saying hes good the entire time

 

[TheREALShadowChaos]

CP Norfair/Rainbow Ride go Squirtle and proceed to ****.

Rainbow ride is good because you can use Squirtle/Zard Canceling in a manner that you have never thought of it before: To cancel Ivysaur!

Awsome as he may be I think that he's not so effective in Rainbow/Norfair. Though he does give more awsome points.

But Norfair can be nice too because Ivy's recovery is actually good there.

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

Everyone's recovery is good at Norfair. Its why Deva and his Link **** there <_<.

Also, I love Squirtle's Utilt in this MU. Now if only I can hit them with it. Jab also clashes with the first hit of Snake's Ftilt.

 

[MaTA]

Rainbow Cruise**** not ride


but Norfair is banned in Florida so can't go there anymore and it was my cp.

 

[Steeler]

Also Steeler, while your options do seem good.

what lol

snake can grenade out of utilt combos after about 4 or so, so just grab him, don't pummel, and uthrow to uairs or something

snake cp is kind of dependent on who you want to use the most. if you want to use squirtle, then brinstar is a **** cp for you, for the same reason that it is **** for wario v snake.

rainbow cruise is alright for squirtle and charizard v snake, there's a lot of small platforms on the stage that'll make the snake dthrow really really gay if you get grabbed. i hate that stage as ivysaur too. you can ivy cancel on pretty much anything though so that's a bonus.

i find that snake's pivot grab has ridiculous range on charizard since his body is one of the largest and his neck/head kind of "stick out" from where he's actually standing.

overall i think this matchup is 40:60 at best and could easily be 35:65

 

[Kingdom Come]

Squirtle VS Snake: Remember, in Brawl Squirtle is a flying-type pokemon. You have to stay in the air at all times, use as much fair and bair as possible. When he is in the air use your watergun it should stall him somewhat, follow this up with a fair. As far as approach goes f-tilt to jab x3. People who complain about Squirtle can't kill STFU because the Pokemon Trainer overall can't really kill, he is about jabs and grabs. So your best options for the kill are your aerials, Usmash, and Dthrow. Kills at about 150+%

Ivysaur VS Snake: This is by far my favorite match-up, some can use this to say tiers don't exist or whatever. Anyways, you spam the mess out of razor leaf. I have noticed for approach you should abuse f-tilt, they never see this coming and it is possibly my favorite Ivy move. You can also f-tilt to bullet seed. For his DAC use your d-tilt, it works for everything of the sort. Space with your razor leaf and bair often eventually he will fear it to the point where you can go in with nair to bullet seed to rack up all the damage. Best kill moves here IMO are usmash, fsmash, uair, you can even spike him with dair which is a EXTREMELEY risky, Go for the kill at right around 120%

Charizard VS Snake: Jab constantly. Space with your ftilt when he approaches, Flamethrower whenever possible just make sure you get him, it has so much lag that if you short hop flamethrower and miss, you WILL regret it big time. You can chain fairs, fair chase him to the ledge and use flamethrower this should 90% of the time. Charizard has a good reach so use a lot of dthrow. When it comes to the aerial game use rock smash and fair. Hell, you can even spike him if you think you can. Just don't do anything with too much lag or your screwed. Kill moves are F-smash, Rock Smash, Dthrow. Kills usually at 120%

Pkmn Trainer is my Snake counter believe it or not! So I know this match-up pretty well. BTW Ivy rocks!!!

 

[Blitzmidfielder]

Snakes I play against don't know what to do against Zard's Grab Releases. That and Dtilt make me think Zard is the Snake killer.

 

[typh]

uuuuuh grab releasing snake means you die lol

 

[Ghetto Fabulous]

does snake's jab come out faster than charizards jab after a grab release?

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[MaTA]

charizards grab release jab comes out faster then snakes. my Charizard is the snake raper.

 

[Ghetto Fabulous]

then what is typh getting at

 

[Miles.]

My charizard is a snake rapper.

 

[Toby.]

charizards grab release jab comes out faster then snakes. my Charizard is the snake raper.

then the snakes you play against don't know the matchup at all. snake is one of charizards worst matchups.

all snake has to do is land ONE GRAB.

 

[Shaya]

1. Vs Ivy:

Snake can use first hit of ftilt to cancel out any razor leaf, and the hitbox will still be out, and outranging most of Ivysaur, disallowing any little dash grab shiz. A 'walk' into another first hit ftilt will be faster than a second razor leaf. Whilst it isn't often that Snake is told to approach, he can, and grenade camping isn't that effective.
Ivy can't aim her razorleaf to cover Snake lopping grenades in an arc too well... Ivy can attempt to avoid them, but Snake's in an advantage in this situation. However on stages with unfavourable (for Snake) platform cover, he'll be forced to jump at least to get to the nade to you.
Stupidly low kill ability with C4s.
Damage output is so much in Snake's favour if he can avoid bullet seed.

2. Vs Charizard
Troll Roll. Lopping grenades over flame thrower. Get's "juggled" by uairs? LOL.
Rock smash shield pokes Snake well; Snake has ****ing humongous issues TOUCHING the ground due to Charizard's extreme grab range that just makes Snakes cry themselves to sleep. Resetting that situation over and over again with uairs; fears of rocksmashes, upsmashes or the pivot grabs .

3. Vs Squirtle
Can gimp Snake with awesome tricks.
Can combo Snake with awesome tricks. Juggle, ****, grab Snake as he touches the ground thats almost as bad as Zard.
However Snake's grab game and nades can reset the situation for Snake if Squirtle is on top of his ***.
Snake can't camp Squirtle; watergun the nades back at you, and the good enough ground and air speed to weave past them (YES! GOOD WORK SQUIRTLE AT NOT FAILING LIKE IVY AND ZARD).
Snake can chain grab Squirtle to a ledge to a first hit ftilt (the hitbox above the ground that hits 'far') and Squirtle will struggle to recover; especially with a looming back air.
Squirtle won't be killing Snake without gimps or a fresh fair/dair at the ledge until like 150%+...

 

[Tien2500]

then what is typh getting at

If you grab release Snake he is in range the grab you and Dthrow you. If he gets his shield up before your jab hits you get shield grabbed to Dthrow and that's bad. If you have Snake grabbed you should probably just launch him up with Uthrow and try to keep him in the air, or if you're near an edge throw him off and try to gimp.

 

[Gindler]

1. Vs Ivy:

Snake can use first hit of ftilt to cancel out any razor leaf, and the hitbox will still be out, and outranging most of Ivysaur, disallowing any little dash grab shiz. A 'walk' into another first hit ftilt will be faster than a second razor leaf. Whilst it isn't often that Snake is told to approach, he can, and grenade camping isn't that effective.
Ivy can't aim her razorleaf to cover Snake lopping grenades in an arc too well... Ivy can attempt to avoid them, but Snake's in an advantage in this situation. However on stages with unfavourable (for Snake) platform cover, he'll be forced to jump at least to get to the nade to you.
Stupidly low kill ability with C4s.
Damage output is so much in Snake's favour if he can avoid bullet seed.

2. Vs Charizard
Troll Roll. Lopping grenades over flame thrower. Get's "juggled" by uairs? LOL.
Rock smash shield pokes Snake well; Snake has ****ing humongous issues TOUCHING the ground due to Charizard's extreme grab range that just makes Snakes cry themselves to sleep. Resetting that situation over and over again with uairs; fears of rocksmashes, upsmashes or the pivot grabs .

3. Vs Squirtle
Can gimp Snake with awesome tricks.
Can combo Snake with awesome tricks. Juggle, ****, grab Snake as he touches the ground thats almost as bad as Zard.
However Snake's grab game and nades can reset the situation for Snake if Squirtle is on top of his ***.
Snake can't camp Squirtle; watergun the nades back at you, and the good enough ground and air speed to weave past them (YES! GOOD WORK SQUIRTLE AT NOT FAILING LIKE IVY AND ZARD).
Snake can chain grab Squirtle to a ledge to a first hit ftilt (the hitbox above the ground that hits 'far') and Squirtle will struggle to recover; especially with a looming back air.
Squirtle won't be killing Snake without gimps or a fresh fair/dair at the ledge until like 150%+...

1. So ivy can't aim razor leaf................they can always use the nifty jump feature and RL at the same time though.

2. Aim flame thrower up............zards so heavy he doesn't even care about nades

 

[Steeler]

nades do 18% fresh. that's a lot of damage... snake utilt kills at like...eh, let's say 115%. three nades and you are over 50%.

 

[Miles.]

nades are ****. just get the lead and run away.

haha.

 

[MaTA]

ha tcanter...believe me the snakes i play know the match up. yeah his jabs come out more quick then snakes when released.


gindler, ivy gets punished bad if you razor leaf at the wrong time

 

[Toby.]

My point wasn't about which jab comes out first. Honestly that doesn't matter at all when snake can 0-death zard from a single grab. I was saying that it doesn't make sense for your charizard to be a snake raper when any snake player with the tiniest amount of matchup knowledge can easily defeat charizard simply with standard nade camping and dthrow. This is an incredibly bad matchup for charizard. Therefore I assumed that the people you play don't really know about the matchup. Its either that or they aren't good enough to utilise snakes total superiority. Or maybe you're incredibly good and never get grabbed. Thats always an option

This is going to be more general now. Regarding people knowing the matchup:

Virtually every American and Australian player I've met hasn't known the first thing about pokemon trainer. These days I just assume that the people myself and everyone else plays don't know about any of pokemon trainer's most fundamental weaknesses. Half the time it seems like the pokemon trainer board doesn't even know about them. It makes me very sad.

Matabird, I'm not trying to put you down. I was going to make a post like this before I saw your post anyway.

I think that its important for the PT board to pull its head out of the sand and seriously learn about PT's weaknesses. Otherwise our metagame will always revolve around foolish assumptions we've developed because our opponents dont know **** about pokemon trainer. I love you guys, but you gotta realise that half the time our effective strategies are born from our opponents not actually thinking about the matchup at all.

 

[Miles.]

I think that its important for the PT board to pull its head out of the sand and seriously learn about PT's weaknesses. Otherwise our metagame will always revolve around foolish assumptions we've developed because our opponenets dont know **** about pokemon trainer. I love you guys, but you gotta realise that half the time our effective strategies are born from our opponents not actually thinking about the matchup at all.

Best post of 2009.

 

[Miles.]

I think that its important for the PT board to pull its head out of the sand and seriously learn about PT's weaknesses. Otherwise our metagame will always revolve around foolish assumptions we've developed because our opponenets dont know **** about pokemon trainer. I love you guys, but you gotta realise that half the time our effective strategies are born from our opponents not actually thinking about the matchup at all.

Best post of 2009.

 

[MaTA]

A lot of people i play know the match up now...but even before they have ever faced me they had a decent amount of knowledge on it. I really dont think snake can 0-death charizard with one grab. The amount he has to guess right to keep re-grabbing is pretty bad. It is opinion based for you to say that this is a incredible bad match up for charizard. from what i've experienced and people I play (Afro, HRnut, 8-Bit, Radix) really good snake palyers. I can hold my game just as good as they can. If you really play a lot of snakes you find ways in between everything and can punish them greatly. I'm not scared about snakes grab nor worry about it.

 

[PK-ow!]

Squirtle sucks here because there's no way he's going to get Snake to KO without becoming fatigued.

Don't start Squirtle.


I have a hard time believing Ivy does better than Charizard in this one, although I can't say why.

Maybe I haven't faced enough dthrow chains, though...

[random noob throws in 2 cents]

 

[Steeler]

i think the best idea is to start squirtle, get your **** juggle in, cycle through the other two, and bring fresh squirtle back in to kill. because squirtle is imo your most reliable killer in this matchup if you compare all three when they are fresh.

but sometimes it's not possible or feasible to cycle through the whole switch order in the same stock so idk. that's the best case scenario imo.

 

[Toby.]

Matabird, I've played and beaten a number of top marth players. This does not mean that marth isn't a bad matchup. It simply means that they didn't know the pokemon trainer matchup. Playing somebody a lot doesn't mean they will learn the key aspects that make a matchup good or bad.

Typh is one of the most well known PT players and is a tournament regular. Not a single person I played or spoke to from california knew about charizards back roll.

Here's why snake's dthrow on charizard isn't about guessing: go into training mode. get snake to dthrow charizard and try and do a backroll. Notice how charizards backroll is so bad that he doesn't even move behind snake? Its basically the same thing as a normal getup. So now we only have 4 options against snake: backroll/get up, attack, roll away or do nothing.

Ask any snake player whether its a massive advantage for them to be able to know that you will never be able to roll behind them. Also keep in mind that our forward roll isn't far enough away to avoid another regrab.

Even if they mess up and dont get a couple regrabs, its completely devastating for charizard knowing that a charizard with such a beatly boost grab can land the regrab so easily. Oh and no matter what option we choose, as long as snake shields to avoid the getup attack he will always get at the very least a dash attack. Easily, too.

I really can't see how you could think that this isn't a big problem for charizard :S

 

[MaTA]

you can just say "Mata"

You're blowing this way out of perspective. First off marth is good but beatable so really no reason to bring him in here. I told you the people i played sorta knew the match up some beforehand. Yeah I knew the back roll a while ago I know i posted it somewhere in the PT threads.

its actually a little different then the normal stand up. To actually re-grab charizard out of it you need to run pass him and pivot grab. Most snake players wouldn't do that thinking its a normal stand up and wouldn't get the grab. You don't have to roll behind them to get away.

It's as devastating as playing any other character except some have faster stand up/roll animations. If a snake shields any attack from someone attacking and getting up its a free hit. doesn't matter if your charizard or not.

I dont see how its a big problem because when your d/thrown by snake its the same as other characters. Yeah snake can camp charizard but just because he's bigger doesnt mean crap. He can run and almost do a instant power shield because he barely slides and then sprint right out. Time it out perfect for a grab.

Your making this a bigger deal then it is. Its a grab.

 

[Steeler]

whyyyyyyyy can't you tech that throw ughhhhh

 

[MaTA]

cause then the snake players would complain then
probably wouldn't be as broken...who knows

 

[Shaya]

Arguing players to disprove a match up flaw is facetious.
Arguing players to prove people don't know the match up is also facetious; but has better purpose when bringing up a player who plays in tournaments that they often get top 8 in.

Snake's dthrow on Zard is...
"See get up" (which is similar in animation to get up, attack and rolling towards snake): Shield... grab or if you aren't using shield hit lag to move towards Zard through his get up attack, shield drop ftilt.
"See roll away", boost grab. Whilst rolling away animation isn't so noticably slow...

When Snake only needs to either shield or dash forward to get the tech chase... It's bad for Zard.

Just about everyone else agrees that zard gets ***** due to dthrow.
The snake side, most of the PT side (just about everyone except you) and even me the semi-PT tier ***** side.

Whilst yet again it's facetious for me to just go 'PEOPLE SAY ITS SO', I don't feel the need to repeat a sound argument that tcranter already has said.
If you're getting top 8 consistantly with PT, or are beating the high level Snakes you name drop (I've only ever heard of Afro and HRNut, Afro being a much more KNOWN player as a Snake though) consistantly then get back to us. If you continue to beat those high level Snakes after they realise they may have to put 30 seconds of reading into the match up to push it back into their favour, then let's start the whole ball of "Charizard does well against Snake".

But where Snake has better damage output, better range (Flamethrower not included), better weight, better killing and where Charizard's strengths come from being able to **** his landing with grabs and some juggles... and... and... what? I'm not sure. Do go on.

 

[Toby.]

I hate writing long replies like this, which is probably because I never read them myself.

Oh well.

A lot of people i play know the match up now...but even before they have ever faced me they had a decent amount of knowledge on it.

I told you the people i played sorta knew the match up some beforehand.

When I say know the matchup I mean more than knowing a bit about range and such. I'm talking about a full understanding of the matchup. If the people you played "sorta knew the matchup some" then saying that you did well against them doesn't really prove much.

its actually a little different then the normal stand up. To actually re-grab charizard out of it you need to run pass him and pivot grab.

If you have never experienced a snake standing still and regrabbing you out of your back roll, which is what is implied by your claim that snake can't just stand still, then chances are these players don't know the matchup properly.

Most snake players wouldn't do that thinking its a normal stand up and wouldn't get the grab. You don't have to roll behind them to get away.

No, remember we are talking about snake players who know the matchup. Players who know about the backroll. So we can't trick them with something they already know about.

It's as devastating as playing any other character except some have faster stand up/roll animations. If a snake shields any attack from someone attacking and getting up its a free hit. doesn't matter if your charizard or not.

Its more devestating because we lose an entire option. I know snake can hit anyone out of the getup. I was illustrating the point that even though we have other options (such as the get up attack) they will often fail and get us punished.

I dont see how its a big problem because when your d/thrown by snake its the same as other characters.

Other characters can roll behind snake, which forces the snake player to guess what we are going to do. Here they dont have to guess nearly as much, which means its far more effective.

Yeah snake can camp charizard but just because he's bigger doesnt mean crap. He can run and almost do a instant power shield because he barely slides and then sprint right out. Time it out perfect for a grab.

Your making this a bigger deal then it is. Its a grab.

Think about it this way. Typically snake controlls the stage with nades, his mine and the c4. One of the ways snake players create traps is by spacing the explosives to eliminate your options out of a dthrow. The most obvious example is a mine behind snake to encourage you to roll away.

Against charizard, snake only needs an explosive in front of him and the he can over every single option we have simply by standing still.

Lets look at it from another angle. Fresh snake ftilt does 20% in total and outranges everything we have except for fsmash, ftilt and flamethrower. His ftilt is much faster than all of those moves. His nades do 13%. Uptilt does 13%. Uair and bair do 14% Dthrow does 12% and pummels do 2%.

Lets say we get hit by two grenades, two ftilts - with one of them only being the second hit-, and one uair or bair (remember how charizard is helpess from below?). Thats about 70%, taking stale moves into consideration. So far everything snake has done has been easy, safe and fairly conservative.

Now they manage to grab us, pummel once (although in reality we'd probably be seeing more than one) and dthrow. 84%. They hold up their shield and we try to do a getup attack, which scores them another grab, pummel and dthrow. 96%. We roll away and they stay in their shield for too long so they only get off a dash attack. I don't know how much damage dash attack does so like just assume its about 8%. So now we're on 104%. This too has been safe and conservative. The chain was short (unecessarily short, if the snake player has any decent level of skill) and finished with the worst option.

Charizard starts dying from snakes up tilt at 109% without DI.

I wrote all of that to illustrate how ludicrously easy it is for snake to get charizard to kill percent even when they barely abuse the dthrow. Him having faster, longer ranged moves that are better for killing is just very hard to get past. We flamethrower is the only attack with have that can't be grenade countered. Snake is BETTER at covering his weak angle that charizard is. He can punish bad aerial positioning far better with his stronger, high priority aerials.

Can charizard do any of this? No.

Perhaps we are going about this the wrong way. If you could explain how charizard can do well against a character who is superior in every conceivable way I would be very happy.

 

[luke_atyeo]

hi shaya, I like to follow you around

but yes shaya and tcranter are correct.

its actually a little different then the normal stand up. To actually re-grab charizard out of it you need to run pass him and pivot grab. Most snake players wouldn't do that thinking its a normal stand up and wouldn't get the grab. You don't have to roll behind them to get away.

the only differences are, A. it takes a little longer than a normal stand up, and B. if you move forward then charizard will get behind you, BUT IF YOU STAND STILL THEN HE ROLLS BACK INTO YOU AND GETS UP IN FRONT OF YOU, try it out in the game already.

you dont have to do any pivot grabs at all, thats completely wrong.

you are right about one thing, alot of snake players wouldnt do that because they simply dont know about it, but thats like saying that metaknight is a bad character because people dont know about (insert all of MK's brokeness here)

just because someone doesnt know about it doesnt make it suddenly not exist, after all, matchups are assumed that the match is at the highest level of play with both players knowing what they are doing.

snakes grab ***** zard, snake ***** zard, if you dont know about it that doesnt make it suddenly no apply.


ALSO do we agree on charizard having a huge advantage in grabbing snake as he lands? because snakes have found a way to land with 0 landing lag, yeah, we're broken like that.

 

[CoonTail]

I wrote all of that to illustrate how ludicrously easy it is for snake to get charizard to kill percent even when they barely abuse the dthrow. Him having faster, longer ranged moves that are better for killing is just very hard to get past. We flamethrower is the only attack with have that can't be grenade countered. Snake is BETTER at covering his weak angle that charizard is. He can punish bad aerial positioning far better with his stronger, high priority aerials.

Can charizard do any of this? No.

Perhaps we are going about this the wrong way. If you could explain how charizard can do well against a character who is superior in every conceivable way I would be very happy.

At this point if your still thinking zard is at an advantage on snake you might be asked to leave LOL.......anyway Tcranter your completely right and I never really saw this matchup play out like this and your completely right it will be an extremely hard point to prove that zard can do well against snake. If I had to take on this task I would say that charizard can do well against snake but honestly not much beyond that at all. A good zard can full hop a Flamethrower if the snake plucks a nade leaving the ability to stop your flamethrower smaller than original noted earlier in this thread. With Flamethrower and rocksmash you can get around certain projectiles by forcing shields, yet obviously if you rocksmash a snake with a grenade and he shields your still boned. Assuming you know the situation and correct attack for the projectile you can get around the planted c4's by forcing shields on snake and get around mines with smart flamethrower. Charizard is like other pokes where air game is key so if you get snake in the air at that point you finally have advantage. Lastly with that spike if you get him off stage yet again your at advantage. In short a smart zard can prevent options from being cut off and forcing you into terrible grab situations, also placing snake in the air or off the stage yet again creates advantages not huge ones but advantages non the less. I may have condensed this way to much and I will expand later but Im sure if your not being cynics you can follow my thought process. In no way shape or form does zard have advantage overall at all in this matchup. But the question being can zard do well against snake the answer is yes it just requires the PT player to know the matchup with snake the way were assuming the snakes in this situation know our matchup.

 

[SuSa]

hi shaya, I like to follow you around

but yes shaya and tcranter are correct.



the only differences are, A. it takes a little longer than a normal stand up, and B. if you move forward then charizard will get behind you, BUT IF YOU STAND STILL THEN HE ROLLS BACK INTO YOU AND GETS UP IN FRONT OF YOU, try it out in the game already.

you dont have to do any pivot grabs at all, thats completely wrong.

you are right about one thing, alot of snake players wouldnt do that because they simply dont know about it, but thats like saying that metaknight is a bad character because people dont know about (insert all of MK's brokeness here)

just because someone doesnt know about it doesnt make it suddenly not exist, after all, matchups are assumed that the match is at the highest level of play with both players knowing what they are doing.

snakes grab ***** zard, snake ***** zard, if you dont know about it that doesnt make it suddenly no apply.


ALSO do we agree on charizard having a huge advantage in grabbing snake as he lands? because snakes have found a way to land with 0 landing lag, yeah, we're broken like that.

You need to start visiting the Snake boards more.... lol

QFT

 

[MaTA]

I never said he had this huge advantage. I know how to play charizard well enough to win against snake. there is no point of saying anything cause its going no where.

 

[Toby.]

I just don't like it when we pt players assume we have decent matchups just because we can beat people who don't really investigate the PT matchup. As long as you understand that generally charizard has significant problems with snake then its all good

Actually since you don't seem to agree with that then I guess its all good regardless of whether we agree.

lol.