Pokemon Stadium 2: Full Analysis, Gameplay Implications, and a really fair stage

[Budget Player Cadet_]

It's not that nobody cares about Yoshi. It's just that he's one of the least-used characters in the game, a low-tier to boot, and "Yoshi is good on this stage" is therefore a fairly moot point. Now, "over half of the top tiers are amazing on this stage" on the other hand...

 

[Tesh]

<3

PS2 is such a legit stage, I'm always counterpicking it with Yoshi =D

This is not the post the OP wanted to see in this thread.

Thanks, though, it sure helps my argument.

I'm not sure exactly what you are getting at. Every stage is someone's best stage in some matchup. Every stage is someone's best stage in most matchups too for that matter. I would strike Ps2 vs Yoshi the same as I would strike FD against Diddy Kong.

I think the main trouble with this argument is that you guys want to decide whether or not its a viable starter, yet these are the same 2 groups that can't agree on what starter material is.

Some people feel a starter should be the result of full stage striking to leave the decision to the players (more depth?). Some feel that we can eliminate stages that would never be played on game 1 anyway (rc, brinstar). Some feel a starters should be strictly static rather than dynamic.

If people can't agree on what each category will represent, how are you supposed to sort things into those categories.

 

[Raziek]

Yoshi likes it because all the transformations support egg camping, IMO.

That doesn't affect it's candidacy as a starter though, you'd just strike it against Yoshi and end up on LC or something.

 

[t!MmY]

Your point is to defend PS2 by showing how, in all of its formations, the stage is not broken. I agree that it's not a broken stage. This does not however mean these transformations are not found as annoyances/inconveniences to players.

My solution:
I will allow PS2 as a Starter/Counterpick.
I will also hack it so it never transforms.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Updated the OP with a quote from Almo on AiB.

Inconsequential?

Here's a team friendly i played during the summer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fch66F9uufs


going by the time on the in-game timer,


7:10 Wind formation starts
6:58 This is when i start traveling upwards. My second jump is also wasted.
6:38 The stage returns to Normal. At this point I am airdodging so Pit's arrows don't kill me. If it was a character that couldn't reach me with something, DB1 can still be used to stall for longer.
6:30 I'm visible on screen


Let's assume that there's some point above the blast zone where I can not go any higher. Some sort of limit. So it will always take 8 seconds to be visible on screen again. If i had started at 7:10, i would still be up there for 40 seconds, until 6:30. Assuming i use DB1 to stall for longer, let's give it an extra 5 seconds. And then not wasting my 2nd jump, an extra second. That's 46 seconds of being 100% safe and assuming there is no limit above the blast zone, i can stay up there for longer, since i lost 12 seconds of rising, plsu the amount of time it would take to fall that extra distance. If a match is something where my opponent is above 150% with 45 seconds to go, or i have a 50% lead, i've already won the match. Snake can cut a 50% lead down to nothing in less than 10 seconds on any of those 3 stages you listed, or any other legal stage for that matter. That should never happen.

You asked how long they could stay up there in your thread, here's your answer for marth.

Don't say it's inconsequential though.

 

[MK26]

he's above the blastzone, so if his opponent can chase him up it's basically 50-50 who's going to die, and if his opponent has a projectile that he can aim its an ohko
and unless hes at or above 150% hes slowly taking magnifying glass damage so if the match is close he cant stall
that's a pretty high-reward, moderate-risk, low-chance-of-occurrence tactic - infuriating? yes. unbeatable? no.

 

[Raziek]

My solution:
I will also hack it so it never transforms.

This is a horrible idea, even in theory. The chance of getting it CONSISTENT on every Wii is low. On top of that, you're setting yourself up for MASSIVE slippery slope.

May as well Freeze Norfair, Wario Ware, use Spear Pillar+ and Rumble Falls+, and hell, maybe even that nifty Ganondorf's tower hack!

And take out tripping! And Buff Ganon! And Nerf MK!

etc, etc.

 

[WindMajor]

...and so on and so forth until we all end up playing Balanced Brawl.


But seriously, any modified versions of Brawl should be strictly side events, they should never replace vBrawl.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Your point is to defend PS2 by showing how, in all of its formations, the stage is not broken. I agree that it's not a broken stage. This does not however mean these transformations are not found as annoyances/inconveniences to players.

My solution:
I will allow PS2 as a Starter/Counterpick.
I will also hack it so it never transforms.

So...what are you saying makes the stage worth hacking exactly.

You just said it's not broken, unless those air stall are looked into more, and yet you want to hack wii's the fix this.

what?

 

[BSP]

Frozen Wario ware would be legit.

 

[Tesh]

Frozen WarioWare would be GREAT. Same reason I like smashville and Delfino plaza. Edgeguarding and recovering are so much deeper where there is that platform that hangs past the ledge.

WarioWare would be starter material frozen.



As for BPC's quote, is that guy just talking about how PS2 might not be starter material? If so, I think he isn't too far off base. Air is slightly worse than PS1 for camping because in those situations you can approach and get ***** if you want to. In PS2 you can't even try in some matchups. At high level play its pretty much the same thing though.

As far as legality, its absurd to think that 50 seconds of camping means the stage is unplayable. Look at Delfino, PS1, RC, Pictochat. Even if you camp out all of the transformations (which requires alot of ledge grabbing too), the stage is fine.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I maintain that camping shouldn't prevent a stage from being starter material as long as Scroogeville is accepted as one.

 

[Raziek]

Greetings from Canada.

I come bearing a PS2 replay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo9pp75rJyA

I think there might be a few more, but not everything has been uploaded yet from our recent tournament.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I think your one of the best TO's because your willing to test things like this.

ty.

 

[Yikarur]

well it's not like testing PS2 is a great deal, this stage is so ok D:

 

[Raziek]

Yeah, but people always want "proof", not just theory, so I do what I can.

 

[WindMajor]

You'd think it would be the other way around in terms of who is asking for proof, but things simply aren't like that.

I appreciate Raziek's efforts too.

 

[clowsui]

-___- MW tournaments have had PS2 on for-EVERRRR

it's just no one CPs it

 

[DtJ Composer]

The midwest stagelist isn't liberal enough anymore

 

[Raziek]

-___- MW tournaments have had PS2 on for-EVERRRR

it's just no one CPs it

That's because it's a good starter stage.

Nobody counterpicks a stage that gives them minimal advantage unless they know they can **** on their opponent regardless of where they go.

If PS2 was a strong CP, you'd see characters picking it.

 

[Tesh]

That's because it's a good starter stage.

Nobody counterpicks a stage that gives them minimal advantage unless they know they can **** on their opponent regardless of where they go.

If PS2 was a strong CP, you'd see characters picking it.

I honestly believe this as well.

Some of it may be ignorance though. Alot of other CPs that aren't SUPER obviously polarized were tried out as starters early on and people realized they gave more subtle advantages to certain types of characters. PS2 might eventually be proven to be CP material, but right now its looking like a lackluster CP for Yoshi, Lucas, GnW in maybe a Bo5 set in some odd matchup.

It would be an interesting starter. I could see alot of people striking it though to avoid and unfamiliar situation.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Interesting note: if Ike upBs onto the edge of electric, he gets pushed back offstage to where he can't recover.

 

[!!!RM!!!]

Is that when Ike tries to grab the ledge with up B or when he goes onto the stage?

 

[Life]

Interesting note: if Ike upBs onto the edge of electric, he gets pushed back offstage to where he can't recover.

I actually can't recall this ever happening as lag gets canceled if Ike is pushed off the edge, or am I wrong? (Is this a version difference?)

 

[Tesh]

Interesting note: if Ike upBs onto the edge of electric, he gets pushed back offstage to where he can't recover.

Its the blastoff glitch. The same thing happens on yoshi's Island and pictochat if you land on the slopes at the edge. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJB5xTtCTec

I didn't realize this happened on such a small slope though ( i guess the motion helps). Nice to know, too bad Ike ***** on the other 3 transformations though. But it is worthwhile to know i can edgehog an up b for that effect here to.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

What tesh said.