*Pound* 4 Results

[ph00tbag]

Personally, I would rather Plank be "unfair" to people who were late to their matches, than be unfair to the people in losers who had nothing to do with it.

 

[XIF]

that isn't an excuse, people in losers need to man the fvck up.

 

[Mogwai]

People need to stop complaining about DQs. The players that got DQ'd knew what was on the line, yet they chose to be irresponsible and be late. Being late when there are strict time limits is unacceptable and if it's beyond your control, well then tough luck that's life (but I'm pretty sure in all these situations the players had options to fall back on). Life isn't always fair.

The issue is not with the DQ, the issue is with the perceived double standard.

JMan and Warrior Knight were in the same late car to the venue. JMan's team was DQed from the entire bracket, Warrior Knight's was not.

This could happen I guess if WK's match was called much later than JMan's and Plank was DQing from tourney rather than matches, but DQing from tourney rather than matches strikes me as whack. It was plank's tourney and he could do whatever he wanted to, but there was no mention of a solid DQ rule in the rules on the first post of the pound thread, and as such, I think we as a community were assuming that the Mages' standard is what would be used (at the very least, that's what I expected, I can't speak for anyone else).

RE: Unfair to Loser's Bracket:
it sucks for them, but frankly, you can't care about that colateral damage. less people will care if Raynex and Unknown get 17th instead of 13th than those who will care that M2K and JMan didn't get to give us a competitive finals.

 

[White_Mike]

So you'd rather a team get cheated out of their money and rightful spot in the losers bracket then have a team who already lost in winners get put against another team in losers just because they're as good as they are?

I remember a certain player losing link dittos at pound 3 and then beasting through the entire losers bracket and messing it up, but he wasn't DQ'd? It's essentially the same thing. Whether he was late to his winners match or if he lost a silly ditto, he still messed up the entire losers bracket.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Lol, what's this? Drephen disagreeing with mew2king? There's no personal bias there at all.

And I will say on current matters in Melee:
1) PLEASE stop hating on Hungrybox. Really cool and nice player. I hate watching him too (lolboringjiggs), doesn't mean he shouldn't **** everyone who isn't Mango or Colbol like he can....and I can hope Jason soon.
2) While I don't agree with the total DQ, I'd go with the send to losers protocol, I respect Plank's decision as a TO to make that decision. Need I remind you how ****ing massive a tournament he just ran.

 

[Atlus8]

there was no mention of a solid DQ rule in the rules on the first post of the pound thread, and as such, I think we as a community were assuming that the Mages' standard is what would be used (at the very least, that's what I expected, I can't speak for anyone else).

You're right! There is no DQ rule at all to start with!

 

[Atlus8]

I remember a certain player losing link dittos at pound 3 and then beasting through the entire losers bracket and messing it up, but he wasn't DQ'd? It's essentially the same thing. Whether he was late to his winners match or if he lost a silly ditto, he still messed up the entire losers bracket.

Why would he get DQ'd in the first place? Should he get DQ'd for messing up the bracket?! If anything, it's much harder working your way up when you start in loser's bracket because you would have to play more matches to get 1st!

 

[White_Mike]

Why would he get DQ'd in the first place? Should he get DQ'd for messing up the bracket?! If anything, it's much harder working your way up when you start in loser's bracket because you would have to play more matches to get 1st!

Well that's the EXACT reason Plank had for DQing M2K and Jman so there ya go.

 

[Nintendude]

The issue is not with the DQ, the issue is with the perceived double standard.

Yeah, I'm aware of that, but Plank already said that those who didn't get DQ'd he simply didn't realize were late. Getting DQ'd from losers as well is harsh but hopefully this'll be a lesson to those involved to get their act together.

 

[Ragboy Imperial]

People need to stop complaining about DQs. The players that got DQ'd knew what was on the line, yet they chose to be irresponsible and be late. Being late when there are strict time limits is unacceptable and if it's beyond your control, well then tough luck that's life (but I'm pretty sure in all these situations the players had options to fall back on). Life isn't always fair.

:bigthumbu ****'s definately not such a big deal, yet nobody wants to drop the subject. Let'S talk about Inui getting punched unconscious by a lion, then waking up asking wtf happened. Some guy with a beer hat tells him a lion punched him, so Inui goes ''Orion? That SOB mawfukka?'' (no.. a lion..) but Inui didn't care... not anymore. He GRABBED the beer hat, put it on his head, right? Took a big *** sip and drank all the beer, then proceeded to kick Orion in the bawls. with his fist. saw it on CNN.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Well that's the EXACT reason Plank had for DQing M2K and Jman so there ya go.

........what

 

[Vyke]

Both sides need to stop ignoring things on either side of the argument, or at least take the time to research things before voicing their opinions on something they don't know the full scoop on. Plank already explained why he DQ'd M2k/Jman and not WarriorKnight's' team, because he simply did not know they were late.

Some people need to stop riding M2k with thoughtless support. Some people need to stop hating on him for who he is or how successful he's been.

All of you need to forget about it and get on with your lives(?).

 

[White_Mike]

........what

DQing them completely instead of just from winners is what I meant.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

:bigthumbu ****'s definately not such a big deal, yet nobody wants to drop the subject. Let'S talk about Inui getting punched unconscious by a lion, then waking up asking wtf happened. Some guy with a beer hat tells him a lion punched him, so Inui goes ''Orion? That SOB mawfukka?'' (no.. a lion..) but Inui didn't care... not anymore. He GRABBED the beer hat, put it on his head, right? Took a big *** sip and drank all the beer, then proceeded to kick Orion in the bawls. with his fist. saw it on CNN.

you should write childrens stories.

 

[nyc_tag$]

Everyone that's saying it's Jman's fault and that he was being irresponsible should shut the **** up.

There was a problem at the hotel and he couldn't leave until it was solved. It wasn't his fault so shut the **** up and get your ****ing facts straight before you talk out of your ***

 

[Dr Peepee]

Did Peepee really 4 stock lucky in the fist game then lose the set 2-1?!?

Oh, the things I could say.

Yes, it's true.

Edit: lol good same-time post adam. =p

 

[l0zR=)]

Show up on time and things like this wont happen. Its not like its the biggest melee tournament EVER or anything lets just show up late its no big deal. No excuses people!!

Good **** to plank for trying to run everything as smooth as possible. Mad props

Edit: PP i was gonna say the same LOL

 

[Atlus8]

Yeah, I'm still unclear as to what happened with Inui and punching and stuff!

 

[Plairnkk]

Personally, I would rather Plank be "unfair" to people who were late to their matches, than be unfair to the people in losers who had nothing to do with it.

^This. Im not going to penalize those people in losers bracket because of the lateness of another player. Pound 2 brackets got owned because of this and im not gonna let people who were irresponsible ruin the entire tournament for teams who did nothing wrong and had a chance to place high.

Nobody should have to "man up" and play a top team in losers because they were not there in time for their winners bracket. It's one thing if they were outplayed, its another if they didnt show up. If someone doesnt show up to their pool match they are dq'd from their entire pool, whats the difference between pools and brackets? I planned on DQing everyone entirely from the tournament not just from winners before the tournament. I even had a long discussion with a fellow TO the DAY before Pound on my reasoning on why I do that.

Basically just because a team is good doesnt mean the rest of the teams in losers should pay for their mistake. They need to take the full blow of not being at the venue when they need to play, not half of the blow and distribute the other half between the rest of the losers bracket.


Home from airport trips, now to the venue to clean. Renth if youre around you should come HALP ME!!!!!!11

 

[White_Mike]

Well I disagree with your reasoning plank but at least you have one and stick to it.

 

[Spife]

Dthrow is basically impossible to follow up in PAL, sans tech-chasing. NTSC, well... Yeah.


About the DQ situation: In basically every other competitive community, losing the first round is a legitimate strategy, because it's so much easier to plow through the loser's bracket. Why, then, should a top contender be completely removed because they "lost" (whether it was a DQ or not) their first match?

Did plank double-DQ every person that was late, or just M2K/Jman? A double-DQ for being late doesn't make much sense, but as long as the rules were enforced the same way for everyone, then the situation isn't "unfair," it's just a TO's preference on their DQ rulings.

Two things. One: I forget the match, and I'm sure it's not the only one, but there's a match of Amsah vs a Marth (pal version) on FD and Amsah basically had to tech chase the marth out of dthrows because of how far out the marth could DI away (or what ever let him get that far away).

Second, I agree with the parts on the double dq. Bolded is legit.

 

[thethethelyme]

Had he DQ'd anyone else by this point? I don't care about previous tourny's.. just Pound 4. We need to see if he was being harsh or just consistent.

 

[Atlus8]

I understand what Plank is saying, but as Mogwai pointed out there was no DQ rule in the OP! You said you had a discussion with a fellow TO which is fine, but it was the DAY BEFORE pound and nothing was said!

 

[White_Mike]

Even if he was being consistent, his consistency would be a harsh one IMO.

Now about Inui, I was not there but was told by someone about what happened with him.

He got drunk, hit someone in the face, dry humped someone in wii pajamas and it was borderline ****.

This is what I heard.

 

[Pakman]

Since M2K was there and jman was not, why wasn't it reasonable for m2k to try 2 on 1 or teaming with a level 9 until jman showed up?

 

[g-regulate]

He got drunk, hit someone in the face, dry humped someone in wii pajamas and it was borderline ****.

This is what I heard.

what? i heard he put his underwear on his head, ran around the hotel yelling at an imaginary person, and then SPEARED an old lady into the swimming pool!

Since M2K was there and jman was not, why wasn't it reasonable for m2k to try 2 on 1 or teaming with a level 9 until jman showed up?

i suggested this, 2 hours after the situation had already been handled. m2k should've thought of it sooner, i would've allowed it unless plank had some objection that, i couldn't imagine him having.

 

[Atlus8]

Odds are if M2K teamed with a computer then he might have lost which would send him to losers! That's exactly what Plank tried to avoid, having a dominant team in the loser's bracket and messing everything up! So he would probably still end up DQing Jman/M2K entirely anyway!

 

[CT Chia]

I know some people that replaced teammates in other teams events, even if I would have went in there with M2K and bomb stalled in the air while he ***** so I could hold more stocks for him he probably could have made it past first round lol

DQing for being late is understood, and it was said plenty of times. What wasn't said however is that you would be DQ'd from winners AND losers

I also find it hilarious that I was about 45 minutes late for my first Brawl teams match and no one noticed or cared, I just told my opponents what was up. I was at the venue as early as I could, but my teammate got a flat tire while driving to the venue that morning.

 

[Niko45]

To on one hand say "no excuses no special treatment for anybody" and then turnaround and double DQ because these specific players are so good that it would be considered "punishing" the loser's bracket is a double standard all by itself.

You are basically saying that if they had been less skilled players you wouldn't have double DQ'd them and therefore that you discriminated against these players specifically in your decision.

 

[Spife]

Eh, I've said it else where but I think communication needed to go down better. Had Jman and some one at the venue communicated, Plank would have been told that both WK and Jman were going to be late (I heard for car problems, I can't confirm this, but why was Jman late?). Plank could have then done something to both of them, rather then just one of them.

Moral of the story is to communicate

Edit:

I also find it hilarious that I was about 45 minutes late for my first Brawl teams match and no one noticed or cared, I just told my opponents what was up. I was at the venue as early as I could, but my teammate got a flat tire while driving to the venue that morning.

This. Can't be blamed for a flat.


Also,

To on one hand say "no excuses no special treatment for anybody" and then turnaround and double DQ because these specific players are so good that it would be considered "punishing" the loser's bracket is a double standard all by itself.

You are basically saying that if they had been less skilled players you wouldn't have double DQ'd them and therefore that you discriminated against these players specifically in your decision.

I think everyone from there on out were double DQ'd as well, so I think he was consistant. But I agree, it would appear he were treating a team differently if Jman and M2K were the only ones who got double DQ'd, but I do not think that that was the case.

 

[Mogwai]

To on one hand say "no excuses no special treatment for anybody" and then turnaround and double DQ because these specific players are so good that it would be considered "punishing" the loser's bracket is a double standard all by itself.

You are basically saying that if they had been less skilled players you wouldn't have double DQ'd them and therefore that you discriminated against these players specifically in your decision.

well, that's what's being perceived, though as of right now, no one's brought forth any examples of Plank single DQing anyone at this tourney. seems like he honestly just did DQs differently than most, but I think it's pretty upsetting that there was no mention of how DQs would be handled. there seems to be consistency, it's just that no one was aware of how it would be handled and thus had different expectations.

 

[Atlus8]

To on one hand say "no excuses no special treatment for anybody" and then turnaround and double DQ because these specific players are so good that it would be considered "punishing" the loser's bracket is a double standard all by itself.

You are basically saying that if they had been less skilled players you wouldn't have double DQ'd them and therefore that you discriminated against these players specifically in your decision.

That is very well said! Hoewver, Plank did double DQ everyone else that was late!

well, that's what's being perceived, though as of right now, no one's brought forth any examples of Plank single DQing anyone at this tourney. seems like he honestly just did DQs differently than most, but I think it's pretty upsetting that there was no mention of how DQs would be handled. there seems to be consistency, it's just that no one was aware of how it would be handled and thus had different expectations.

I think PC's team was also double DQ!

yeah i don't really get why we didn't just get sent to losers.. i wish plank told me that was the penalty when i was pestering him the day before that i'd be late the next day for teams. then pc could have just teamed with someone else

 

[g-regulate]

To on one hand say "no excuses no special treatment for anybody" and then turnaround and double DQ because these specific players are so good that it would be considered "punishing" the loser's bracket is a double standard all by itself.

You are basically saying that if they had been less skilled players you wouldn't have double DQ'd them and therefore that you discriminated against these players specifically in your decision.

yea but..... every team would've been "double DQed", under the same circumstances, no one else got any "single DQs", so there's no discrimination at all. making you sound somewhat foolish

 

[Toushi]

2 of the best players at the tournament DQ'd because one had a problem at a hotel that he had to resolve before going to the tournament. Catering to teams in losers who will most likely not place vs having all the best people play to see who really is the best team at a national melee tournament where people from all over go to compete an play against the top smashers playing at their best. I'm sure Plank thought about this before he made his decision. lol

 

[nyc_tag$]

what? i heard he put his underwear on his head, ran around the hotel yelling at an imaginary person, and then SPEARED an old lady into the swimming pool!

LOL

10LOLs

 

[White_Mike]

I think there was discrimination as Jman and M2K were the FIRST Double DQ of the tourney and Plank just followed suit after wards because he pretty much had to.

 

[ZIO]

All I know is I saw, first hand, the reaction M2K made towards the DQ.

I laughed heartily at that moment, and that night, and probably for the rest of the weekend. To me, that reaction was as good as his image of the girl kissing him from the TO tournament (Pretty sure it was TO).

If we could get more of those reactions, I certainly wouldn't object to the DQ methods. <_<

 

[XIF]

I still disagree plank. Yeah they deserved to get DQ'd from winners so lets not even touch on that. The fact is that good teams ending up in losers early on happens all the time (and in singles for that matter). We don't punish good players further for losing matches that they shouldn't have, so why should we punish them further for being late to matches they should have showed up on time to? People have to deal with the fact that sometimes brackets are gonna be **** (at TO5 me and gawes played first round, winner had to fight m2k and loser had to fight the loser of Tope and Colbol). And what of the matter of forfeiting? Do we DQ people for forfeiting a match of their own volition?

If they were not late for their losers bracket match then there is no excuse to DQ them whatsoever. Tough matches happen and they happen sooner or later.

Also, I would like to hear more about these extenuating circumstances that Jman ran into apparently. I think the circumstances in these situations do matter, especially for people traveling any sort of distance. Granted, given that a specific schedule was given for the day and they knew exactly when to show, I can't imagine a circumstance that arose that could not have feasibly been worked around.

 

[Strong Badam]

M2ks post says that jmans car wouldn't start

 

[Atlus8]

And what of the matter of forfeiting? Do we DQ people for forfeiting a match of their own volition?

This! Also, who is to say that Jman/M2K would have won? Maybe they felt like cr@p and lose the match then get sent to loser's bracket! Would that be a way to get around Plank DQ rule or would they still get DQ entirely for going into the losers bracket because they lost a match?