Power to The Princess: Peach Topics. This week: SECONDARIES

[TimeSmash]

Hi all.

There seems to be more activity on these boards as of late, and I think it would be really great and or draw in viewers if we started a topic about Peach's various attributes. I have a thread in the Zelda boards that is really succesful and gets a lot of input, and the format will probably follow that (see: Triforce of Wisdom (ToW) thread in PM Zelda boards). Threads like this thrive on community effort, so be aware that if no one contributes, this thread will die. Not many people use Peach in PM, and even fewer contribute to these boards. So this is a kind of revival if you will, to bring some life back into this character.

Topics will be broken down on a biweekly basis. This whole OP will be edited later on, see the ToW board for generalities.

This week we will be talking about the use of Peach's turnips, and all about glide tossing, Z dropping, spacing, and whatever else. Hopefully this is successful! Commence with discussion!

Table Contents:

1. Using Float Effectively (being edited currently)
2. Turnips (in discussion)

1. Using Float Effectively

Spoiler

Using Float Effectively

Float is a bread-and-butter technique solely specific to Peach. Note that Mewtwo can kind of pseudo float, and that the properties of his technique are a little similar to Peach's. But this thread isn't about Mewtwo haha. Floating is done by holding the jump button after your first or second jump, but is usually performed by holding the jump button down and then pressing down when you get to a certain height. You can float instantly from any height, and even just float right across the ground. You should learn matchup heights, such as the correct height to float above lasers from spacies. You should also learn the general speed of the float, which is somewhat slow but usable. You only get one float every time you are in the air, and this is refreshed by landing back on the ground, NOT the edge. Float has TONS of uses, ranging from spacing to edgeguarding to mindgames, but a really capital use of it is float cancelling. Float cancelling is when you perform an aerial while floating, then drop/fastfall the aerial and hit the ground. By doing this, you cancel all your aerial's landing lag, and can instantly do something else. Common things would be like floating, doing a down air, dropping the float during down air and landing (AKA float cancelling it), then doing DSmash from there. It's a great way to tack on damage and can also be used for pretty good shield pressure. When Peach uses her forward air and the enemy shields, they'll have a lot of shieldstun which you can capitalize on and punish. But these are just some ideas. Let's see what the community has to say.

Edit: Still am updating this as of 7/11/14, ignore the following spoiler

Spoiler

This isn't definitely a great place to start and its a super broad topic since is like, peaches best tool pretty much. I think the most important use of float is extremely low lag-less aerials. Like float just off the ground, Nair or Bair and immediately land and use jab or down smash or something to cover yourself. Thats peach BnB to me at least. Also just using using it as a movement option and being comfortable the same way any other character has to be comfortable wave dashing/landing. Floating over falcos lasers, marios fire balls, and other projectiles of that sort is really important as well as just baiting out grounded moves and punishing by floating above them and fast falling with an aerial.

yeah that also works well. Depends on the aerial usually if they shield a bair or dair you cant get a grab off. Dash attack is also a good option after landing a Fair or Nair on shield because they might just buffer a roll away as soon as you put them in shield pressure and that's a free dash attack which usually has a follow up. Doesn't really work on mewtwo cause mewtwo is stupid.

Personally, I like to grab if they shield the float-cancelled aerial, also to that end I like to use z to input aerials that way I can just tap it again quickly to grab.

honestly id recommend just playing as him and you'll get a feel for it. Its not very high, peachs full hop float height is far above it. Anyway back on topic. Floating is amazing and you should always float cancel your aerials when possible, but using float as an approach/ movement option is something that should be done intelligibly. I see a lotta peaches just floating around willy nilly against characters like link then they eat a boomerang to down air because they cant shield or really avoid a projectile without dropping float. Although in my opinion just playing peach against link is a horrible idea haha

oh yeah i do that all the time too, especially when returning to stage and dropping from the top platform on battlefield, dreamland, FoD etc. You can use float to make Fair safe at any height which is good cause thats super unsafe with out a float cancel but i usually come down with nair or bair cause they have long lasting high priority hit boxes and i can usually make it to the ground or at worst force a trade which is almost always in peaches advantage. ITs a good mind game to bait approaches from characters you can't usually approach on yourself very easily like marth. When hes dash dancing throw out a float canceled fair then immediately get ready to punish the dash grab or Fair thats probably coming. Stuff like that. Peach can use her float the same way falcon and marth ( and others) use their dash dance in a sense to bait stuff out and just apply mental pressure. Not that her dash dance is bad but yeah just another good option for neutral game.


Yeah i suppose but it depends on spacing and the other characters OoS options. Bair Doesnt have as much shield stun as Fair or Nair so trying that on a spacie or samus or anyone with a good OoS like shine or screw attack can be a little risky. Personally I usually down smash after a shielded low float canceled Bair because it hits behind her and will at the very worst damage their shield a lot which is never a bad thing as a peach because that means the next shielded down smash will probably shield stab.

I'm pretty sure as long as the bair is float-cancelled, you'll have time to turn around grab before any character can do any OoS option other than roll. Dsmash is still a good option after bair too though.

Didn't know about d throw that's awesome, anyway back to the topic at hand haha. One thing i find a lot of peaches doing (including myslef) which is not good is waste their float during recovery. Like being hit off stage and floating back a little then double jumping back on stage, when it would be much more advantageous to save your float til you get above the stage and using it to help you safely reach the . Also we haven't really talked about float camping much which is a huge part of peaches defensive/neutral game.

I float off stage with a turnip a lot, especially after a kill to make them waste their invincibility or jump off stage throw the turnip on stage and float back on with a fair or something. Someone might be able to word this better than me but my definition would be something along the lines of "float camping is a similar concept to dash dancing in that it applies pressure without actually committing to an option, you can float back and forth as well as fast fall a float canceled aerial (usually fair) from far away then immediately go back into float to bait out an approach then punish or sometimes to mask your own approach. Learning what height to float at and what distance your safe at is very match-up dependent and is critical to know as a peach player. You should also throw turnips in between floats to apply more real pressure and force them to approach or cover your own approach" Like i said someone might be able to say it better but that's how i would say it lol.

I remember I Vidjo-dropped after a dair into a down smash once. However, I find it hard to set up because you basically have to be right on top of the other player. It's decent shield pressure, I guess. Though I've also heard of using it as a suicide bomber if you happen to pull a bob-omb.

 

[TimeSmash]

RESERVED FOR SPACE

 

[Angrycuban]

This isn't definitely a great place to start and its a super broad topic since is like, peaches best tool pretty much. I think the most important use of float is extremely low lag-less aerials. Like float just off the ground, Nair or Bair and immediately land and use jab or down smash or something to cover yourself. Thats peach BnB to me at least. Also just using using it as a movement option and being comfortable the same way any other character has to be comfortable wave dashing/landing. Floating over falcos lasers, marios fire balls, and other projectiles of that sort is really important as well as just baiting out grounded moves and punishing by floating above them and fast falling with an aerial.

 

[deadjames]

Personally, I like to grab if they shield the float-cancelled aerial, also to that end I like to use z to input aerials that way I can just tap it again quickly to grab.

 

[Angrycuban]

yeah that also works well. Depends on the aerial usually if they shield a bair or dair you cant get a grab off. Dash attack is also a good option after landing a Fair or Nair on shield because they might just buffer a roll away as soon as you put them in shield pressure and that's a free dash attack which usually has a follow up. Doesn't really work on mewtwo cause mewtwo is stupid.

 

[TimeSmash]

Sorry, wasn't able to respond to this for a variety of terrible reasons but it's okay now.

@ Angrycuban , I understand this isn't the best place to start since it's such a broad topic, but I figured because of its broadness it would help to draw people in both as readers and writers, due to float and techniques associated with it being very unique to Peach. Regardless thanks both to you and @ deadjames for contributing to this so far, and hopefully we can get more people to post too.

Anyways, I think baiting people with float is sometimes a good idea. Sometimes you can just empty float certain characters and they'll expect an approach, or even approach you, which can obviously be in your favor. There is always the risky maneuver of floating right towards and enemy and then backing up to really fake them out, but I often get punished for this because I'm not thinking of a follow up to it.

Not to get into MUs, but I have a harder time using float effectively against spacies, Mario, Link and a semi-difficult time with Zelda.

 

[Angrycuban]

Not to get into MUs, but I have a harder time using float effectively against spacies, Mario, Link and a semi-difficult time with Zelda.

I find float to be extremely useful against spacies but pretty much useless against link, marth samus, and mario to an extent, among a few others. Against falco and wolf float is a godsend haha. Its the only reason I believe those match ups are even.

 

[TimeSmash]

I have the most difficulty with Falco, but that's also because I haven't practiced the exact distance in the air you need to be to avoid his [short-hopped] lasers.

 

[Angrycuban]

I have the most difficulty with Falco, but that's also because I haven't practiced the exact distance in the air you need to be to avoid his [short-hopped] lasers.

honestly id recommend just playing as him and you'll get a feel for it. Its not very high, peachs full hop float height is far above it. Anyway back on topic. Floating is amazing and you should always float cancel your aerials when possible, but using float as an approach/ movement option is something that should be done intelligibly. I see a lotta peaches just floating around willy nilly against characters like link then they eat a boomerang to down air because they cant shield or really avoid a projectile without dropping float. Although in my opinion just playing peach against link is a horrible idea haha

 

[TimeSmash]

What do you think of (obviously in a safe manner) using float as you're descending or fastfalling to immediately stop your momentum and then drop the float with an aerial or sometimes even? It's more of a mind game than anything, but sometimes I will do that when going downwards thorough a platform--instead of just hitting the ground, I float, unleash a Nair and then fast fall that. You could also technically do the same when you're ascending, but I haven't done it that much.

 

[deadjames]

yeah that also works well. Depends on the aerial usually if they shield a bair or dair you cant get a grab off. Dash attack is also a good option after landing a Fair or Nair on shield because they might just buffer a roll away as soon as you put them in shield pressure and that's a free dash attack which usually has a follow up. Doesn't really work on mewtwo cause mewtwo is stupid.

You can most certainly get a grab when they shield a bair, if they shield a dair I would either dair again or dsmash, either way you're likely to shield poke.

 

[Angrycuban]

What do you think of (obviously in a safe manner) using float as you're descending or fastfalling to immediately stop your momentum and then drop the float with an aerial or sometimes even? It's more of a mind game than anything, but sometimes I will do that when going downwards thorough a platform--instead of just hitting the ground, I float, unleash a Nair and then fast fall that. You could also technically do the same when you're ascending, but I haven't done it that much.

oh yeah i do that all the time too, especially when returning to stage and dropping from the top platform on battlefield, dreamland, FoD etc. You can use float to make Fair safe at any height which is good cause thats super unsafe with out a float cancel but i usually come down with nair or bair cause they have long lasting high priority hit boxes and i can usually make it to the ground or at worst force a trade which is almost always in peaches advantage. ITs a good mind game to bait approaches from characters you can't usually approach on yourself very easily like marth. When hes dash dancing throw out a float canceled fair then immediately get ready to punish the dash grab or Fair thats probably coming. Stuff like that. Peach can use her float the same way falcon and marth ( and others) use their dash dance in a sense to bait stuff out and just apply mental pressure. Not that her dash dance is bad but yeah just another good option for neutral game.

You can most certainly get a grab when they shield a bair, if they shield a dair I would either dair again or dsmash, either way you're likely to shield poke.

Yeah i suppose but it depends on spacing and the other characters OoS options. Bair Doesnt have as much shield stun as Fair or Nair so trying that on a spacie or samus or anyone with a good OoS like shine or screw attack can be a little risky. Personally I usually down smash after a shielded low float canceled Bair because it hits behind her and will at the very worst damage their shield a lot which is never a bad thing as a peach because that means the next shielded down smash will probably shield stab.

 

[deadjames]

I'm pretty sure as long as the bair is float-cancelled, you'll have time to turn around grab before any character can do any OoS option other than roll. Dsmash is still a good option after bair too though.

 

[Angrycuban]

I'm pretty sure as long as the bair is float-cancelled, you'll have time to turn around grab before any character can do any OoS option other than roll. Dsmash is still a good option after bair too though.

this is a little off topic so excuse me, but what do you usually do after a grab. I up throw up air/nair spacies and falcon and pretty much just down throw dash attack/f tilt/ nair everyone else haha. Not sure if i can get more off them though.

 

[deadjames]

It depends on the MU and my stage position, if I'm near the center I CG every character I can for as long as I can, if not I usually follow up dthrow with ftilt or utilt and uthrow with nair, uair, or utilt. If my opponent is at like 100% or higher I go for two to three pummels and fthrow to try to kill and even if it doesn't kill it will put most characters in an edge-guard situation, and if I'm near the edge I go for whatever throw will get them offstage.

 

[Angrycuban]

It depends on the MU and my stage position, if I'm near the center I CG every character I can for as long as I can, if not I usually follow up dthrow with ftilt or utilt and uthrow with nair, uair, or utilt. If my opponent is at like 100% or higher I go for two to three pummels and fthrow to try to kill and even if it doesn't kill it will put most characters in an edge-guard situation, and if I'm near the edge I go for whatever throw will get them offstage.

She can chain grab every character? Why did i not know this haha? I can chain grab spacies for a while with up throw you can do it to falcon for a bit too but not past like 35ish% but thats about it haha

 

[deadjames]

No she can't CG every character she can chain uthrow on Fox and Falco, and dthrow on a lot of characters, I'm not sure who all it works on, but I can tell you for sure it doesn't work on Puff, Samus, Kirby, Zelda, Luigi, Yoshi, and Ivy, so basically she can probably CG everyone who isn't super floaty. Also, you can technically regrab Marth, but I think he can fair out of it at any time, and the uthrow CG kind of works on Wolf and Falcon, but not reliably.

 

[Angrycuban]

No she can't CG every character she can chain uthrow on Fox and Falco, and dthrow on a lot of characters, I'm not sure who all it works on, but I can tell you for sure it doesn't work on Puff, Samus, Kirby, Zelda, Luigi, Yoshi, and Ivy, so basically she can probably CG everyone who isn't super floaty. Also, you can technically regrab Marth, but I think he can fair out of it at any time, and the uthrow CG kind of works on Wolf and Falcon, but not reliably.

Didn't know about d throw that's awesome, anyway back to the topic at hand haha. One thing i find a lot of peaches doing (including myslef) which is not good is waste their float during recovery. Like being hit off stage and floating back a little then double jumping back on stage, when it would be much more advantageous to save your float til you get above the stage and using it to help you safely reach the . Also we haven't really talked about float camping much which is a huge part of peaches defensive/neutral game.

 

[TimeSmash]

Didn't know about d throw that's awesome, anyway back to the topic at hand haha. One thing i find a lot of peaches doing (including myslef) which is not good is waste their float during recovery. Like being hit off stage and floating back a little then double jumping back on stage, when it would be much more advantageous to save your float til you get above the stage and using it to help you safely reach the . Also we haven't really talked about float camping much which is a huge part of peaches defensive/neutral game.

I see a lot of that too. In fact, I'm sometimes guilty of it as well. Sometimes I'll do the baiting tactic with my float (come towards stage while recovering, float away, then actually recover). I will ocassionally see people activate float at a safe distance off stage and wait for the opponent to do something, which results in them doing one of three things:

-Nothing/ empty jumps or DDing
-Approaches without projectile
- Uses projectile.

So I'm kind of wondering when is a good time to straight back to the stage and when to be a little more "freely using" of it.

Float camping definitely needs to be talked about. Could someone give me a nice little description I can quote for when I edit the OP?

 

[Angrycuban]

I see a lot of that too. In fact, I'm sometimes guilty of it as well. Sometimes I'll do the baiting tactic with my float (come towards stage while recovering, float away, then actually recover). I will ocassionally see people activate float at a safe distance off stage and wait for the opponent to do something, which results in them doing one of three things:

-Nothing/ empty jumps or DDing
-Approaches without projectile
- Uses projectile.

So I'm kind of wondering when is a good time to straight back to the stage and when to be a little more "freely using" of it.

Float camping definitely needs to be talked about. Could someone give me a nice little description I can quote for when I edit the OP?

I float off stage with a turnip a lot, especially after a kill to make them waste their invincibility or jump off stage throw the turnip on stage and float back on with a fair or something. Someone might be able to word this better than me but my definition would be something along the lines of "float camping is a similar concept to dash dancing in that it applies pressure without actually committing to an option, you can float back and forth as well as fast fall a float canceled aerial (usually fair) from far away then immediately go back into float to bait out an approach then punish or sometimes to mask your own approach. Learning what height to float at and what distance your safe at is very match-up dependent and is critical to know as a peach player. You should also throw turnips in between floats to apply more real pressure and force them to approach or cover your own approach" Like i said someone might be able to say it better but that's how i would say it lol.

 

[TimeSmash]

Bumping this because it needs to be.

I'm trying to find legit uses of Vidjo Dropping, or however you spell it. Thoughts? I'm thinking of doing something simple like a Nair, VDropping and then FCing some other aerial, like Bair.

 

[Inserio]

I remember I Vidjo-dropped after a dair into a down smash once. However, I find it hard to set up because you basically have to be right on top of the other player. It's decent shield pressure, I guess. Though I've also heard of using it as a suicide bomber if you happen to pull a bob-omb.

 

[JackDarkStone]

One mix-up I like to do its I pull out a turnip, float and act as if I was gonna do a float-cancel f-air, then I airdodge downard and quickly throw the turnip at them (slide-toss). Anyone have any other tricks with the turnip?

 

[Inserio]

Going off of that, I like to jump back up, catch, and AGT down throw it towards them again, all in the same motion. It's actually decent shield pressure when done well because of how fast it happens and because you're still at a small distance away.

 

[Angrycuban]

yeah floating with a turnip in front of someone is amazing for exerting pressure. Thats something armada did/does a lot. Peach floating in front of you is so scary just because that Fair causes such extreme shield pressure so that causes them to space for the Fair which allows to to lock them down by throwing the turnip and then going in for that Fair or Nair or whatever after they shield the turnip.

 

[Darknut]

oh yeah i do that all the time too, especially when returning to stage and dropping from the top platform on battlefield, dreamland, FoD etc. You can use float to make Fair safe at any height which is good cause thats super unsafe with out a float cancel but i usually come down with nair or bair cause they have long lasting high priority hit boxes and i can usually make it to the ground or at worst force a trade which is almost always in peaches advantage. ITs a good mind game to bait approaches from characters you can't usually approach on yourself very easily like marth. When hes dash dancing throw out a float canceled fair then immediately get ready to punish the dash grab or Fair thats probably coming. Stuff like that. Peach can use her float the same way falcon and marth ( and others) use their dash dance in a sense to bait stuff out and just apply mental pressure. Not that her dash dance is bad but yeah just another good option for neutral game.

One question, I use Peach but I'm not too experience especially with the more techincal aspects of the game. When fast falling how would you initiate a float? Wouldn't it require you to waste your second (air) jump in order to float? Or is there a way you can initiate the float anytime you are in the air without having to waste a jump?

 

[regiwolfe]

If you hold down when you press jump mid-air, you'll go into a float without using your second jump. It's great for edgeguarding and gimps since you can use it to chase your opponent ridiculously far off-stage for a KO, and still have a second jump and the umbrella to recover with. Also, if you hold jump while pressing down when you're on the ground, you'll be able to float immediately off the ground without having to press jump a second time.

 

[Darknut]

If you hold down when you press jump mid-air, you'll go into a float without using your second jump. It's great for edgeguarding and gimps since you can use it to chase your opponent ridiculously far off-stage for a KO, and still have a second jump and the umbrella to recover with. Also, if you hold jump while pressing down when you're on the ground, you'll be able to float immediately off the ground without having to press jump a second time.

Ahhh, so far I've been pressing and holding jump then tapping down to float. I didn't know it could be done the opposite way as well. Thank you!

 

[Alakaslam]

Just posting to say I am here and interested, and CASUAL as all fails...

So

What is float canceling?

(Blushes, and runs to hide)

 

[Alakaslam]

Didn't know about d throw that's awesome, anyway back to the topic at hand haha. One thing i find a lot of peaches doing (including myslef) which is not good is waste their float during recovery. Like being hit off stage and floating back a little then double jumping back on stage, when it would be much more advantageous to save your float til you get above the stage and using it to help you safely reach the . Also we haven't really talked about float camping much which is a huge part of peaches defensive/neutral game.

Doing otherwise than getting to full height before float never occurred to me, so I will stay as I am. Saving further jumps is best with just about any other character.

 

[TimeSmash]

Just posting to say I am here and interested, and CASUAL as all fails...

So

What is float canceling?

(Blushes, and runs to hide)

Float cancelling is when you perform an aerial whilst floating and then fastfall during the aerial and land on the ground with no endlag. Other characters can L cancel to cut some of the endlag of their aerials, but Peach cuts all of hers. So you can cancel your aerial into different moves. A good example would be FC'd Dair -> DSmash

 

[Alakaslam]

Hm

Maybe it's just my buddy maining Ike, but I have found Dair to be a dangerous choice...

But Fair into DS, ooooh deliciousssss..... You have me thinking!

I need to get context on Peach's fast fall, I am used to Link & Pikachu from 64

Unless

Looking at Dair hitbox soon

Yup I see what you mean and now feel so devious >

Btw I had totally forgotten about that frikkin' sword of imbalance, might be fun to hang on to that now & then

Prissy pink Jedi FTW

 

[deadjames]

Peach definitely wrecks Ike, just saying.

 

[Alakaslam]

Peach definitely wrecks Ike, just saying.

Yes but let me guarantee you, Jason far outperforms Justin. I am not half as skilled as he, and he plays an air game as do I. I must stay grounded usually which is uncomfortable for me.

 

[Angrycuban]

I play Lordy a lot and peach Ike is a really fun match up, he usually cps falcon cause it's probably slightly in peaches favor though, its a turnip heavy match up for sure.

 

[Darknut]

I play Lordy a lot and peach Ike is a really fun match up, he usually cps falcon cause it's probably slightly in peaches favor though, its a turnip heavy match up for sure.

Peach and Yoshi both match up well against Ike. Especially with the down aerials. G&W on the other hand.... gets WRECKED by Ike. It's not even fair. (In Project M at least).

 

[deadjames]

I think Yoshi vs Ike is pretty even, I secondary Ike and I play against a really good Yoshi player fairly often.

 

[Alakaslam]

I play Lordy a lot and peach Ike is a really fun match up, he usually cps falcon cause it's probably slightly in peaches favor though, its a turnip heavy match up for sure.

Thy Cuban threw me off

If you don't understand the bbcode check Team Liquid

:ws: Angry :ws:

 

[Jam]

About the Peach shield pressure, what I've found is that after landing a float cancelled fair on an opponent's shield, they just proceed to grab me. I feel like I should have an upperhand, but I don't. Does anyone know if this is right? By the way, most of the time I have been grabbing after the fair, and their grab gets me before mine gets them.

 

[deadjames]

You have frame advantage after float-cancelled fair, so if you're getting grabbed then you aren't grabbing fast enough, also you should mix it up, jab, dtilt, and dsmash are all good options for applying pressure.