PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[choknater]

youre welcome

 

[tarheeljks]

pp, would you be open to critiquing some of your matches later in bracket? understand if you won't b/c you don't want to give away strat and what not

 

[Deleted member]

Thisssssss

My confidence was mad weak at times late in bracket. I think I know what to tell myself to remain confident in finals now though(figured it out vs Armada after WFs and it's why I won imo). I'll probably write a wall about it at some point.

yeah dude please do. I stayed home monday but I watched the stream online for a while. I think it was like WF you CPed armada to YS and lost. And then GF you CPed YS and lost, and then CPed YS again. I was literally calling every person i knew @ the tournament to yell at you. And then I remembered that the tournament was largely underground. And then you won that match. But my rage persisted.

And yes, Dr Peepee is officially the best player in the world. The dispute is over.

 

[Dr Peepee]

@tarheel: Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..............

That's an interesting idea. I'll play around with it and see if I can do that in a way that makes it helpful for everyone.

yeah dude please do. I stayed home monday but I watched the stream online for a while. I think it was like WF you CPed armada to YS and lost. And then GF you CPed YS and lost, and then CPed YS again. I was literally calling every person i knew @ the tournament to yell at you. And then I remembered that the tournament was largely underground. And then you won that match. But my rage persisted.

LOL yeah I dunno I felt like I could kill him well and contain him better on YS. I didn't want to go to PS because I wanted a smaller stage since I won on BF, lost on FD, and could kill early. I just felt like if I wanted to win I had to learn to make the most of that CP before I moved on lol.

 

[V3ctorMan]

^*Vman likes this* (Kevin's moderator status)

 

[Deleted member]

@tarheel: Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..............

That's an interesting idea. I'll play around with it and see if I can do that in a way that makes it helpful for everyone.



LOL yeah I dunno I felt like I could kill him well and contain him better on YS. I didn't want to go to PS because I wanted a smaller stage since I won on BF, lost on FD, and could kill early. I just felt like if I wanted to win I had to learn to make the most of that CP before I moved on lol.

the way i was thinking about it is that peach is just generally gay to falco on FD (chaingrabs, easier edge guarding, uninterrupted combos, simple kill set-ups from dash attack and dtilt, etc.) It looked to me like he was just waiting you out and trying to play a game of attrition, and that by going to a smaller stage and looking for simple counter-attacks, you were doing exactly what he wanted.

that said, i don't doubt your judgment. I am just of the opinion that if something isn't working, to stop trying it. I guess you showed me, lol.

 

[Dr Peepee]

the way i was thinking about it is that peach is just generally gay to falco on FD (chaingrabs, easier edge guarding, uninterrupted combos, simple kill set-ups from dash attack and dtilt, etc.) It looked to me like he was just waiting you out and trying to play a game of attrition, and that by going to a smaller stage and looking for simple counter-attacks, you were doing exactly what he wanted.

that said, i don't doubt your judgment. I am just of the opinion that if something isn't working, to stop trying it. I guess you showed me, lol.

I can corner better on a smaller stage haha, just because he's waiting doesn't change that. I just had to adjust my strategy was all, at least somewhat.

Salty matches are southern-friend strats bro. =p

 

[Rubyiris]

I stand by the opinion that if pp played WF more patiently, he would have won the entire tournament without dropping a set. Nearly everything Armada got was from PP not recognizing that he didn't really have a legitimate follow-up. He got hit by far too many counter-attacks, many of which led into tech chases, which in turn led into death combos.

The more I watch Armada the more I realize his whole game is based around winning trades and making the most out of small little holes in the other players aggression. He also likes to fish for high recoveries more than anything. I think people are too used to going high to avoid the dsmash edge guard, but against armada, it seems like the better option is to recover closer to the ground or ledge, and in general play a more ground-based game.

 

[KILLA.FOR.CASH.]

pp is ****ing tight!

armada is ****ing tight!

thats all

now i cant wait for genesis 2!

 

[Dr Peepee]

I stand by the opinion that if pp played WF more patiently, he would have won the entire tournament without dropping a set. Nearly everything Armada got was from PP not recognizing that he didn't really have a legitimate follow-up. He got hit by far too many counter-attacks, many of which led into tech chases, which in turn led into death combos.

The more I watch Armada the more I realize his whole game is based around winning trades and making the most out of small little holes in the other players aggression. He also likes to fish for high recoveries more than anything. I think people are too used to going high to avoid the dsmash edge guard, but against armada, it seems like the better option is to recover closer to the ground or ledge, and in general play a more ground-based game.

My big problem in WFs was that I tried to play it too safely. He pushed me into tight situations and then made the trades work in his favor and got the kills/combos that way. Aggression is better at times vs him because you don't get forced into those tight spots as often and you get more room to retreat/bait if you need it then anyway. Confidence was low so I struggled a lot on the approach and faltered and then he just trapped me and ***** me a lot. (He was nodding a lot early on but then quit when he found the way to bait the same reaction based on tight positioning over and over....it was actually kind of embarrassing and I was too dissatisfied with myself/nervous to try to figure it out[not a john so much as me simply being a dumb player but I guess you can call johns on it lol]).

He does like higher recoveries more, but I got away with a decent amount of them too as long as they weren't stupid.

 

[Rubyiris]

that's not johns, that's legit, and it's something you can take, and learn from.

think to yourself, why is acknowledging a fault in your game "johns?"

 

[Dr Peepee]

I just reference johns in such things to prevent backlash and actually focus on what I'm saying.

 

[Brookman]

Brookman, Walt, ChivalRuse, HomeMadeWaffles


Honestly, I'm not even impressed anymore, not since I saw you playing @ Rom3. Still, nothing tops Armada's Young Link. That was . . . something else. Anyway, congrats and best of luck at your next event!!

 

[Deleted member]

more importantly, you are the decisive best player in the world.

which means....thread title change?

=D

 

[Brookman]

the best player in the world, for now.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Lol maybe I'll find a way to impress again by the next major I attend. =)

And I don't know if I've really solidified that position yet, Umbreon. I feel like I have to be more consistent vs Hbox(I don't like how close our set was) and Armada(dropped a set to him at the same tourney I won) namely to have that title. And, personally, I want to beat Mango in our seriouslies more than he beats me when we're fully warmed up.

It's certainly arguable at this point, though. =p

 

[TaFoKiNtS]

do you think FD is a better stage as sheik vs falco?

I personally thought I had a SIGNIFICANTLY easier time getting setup on you and followups on that map moreso than any other. You're too good at escaping corners and zoning on platform stages.

 

[Rubyiris]

You're the best stop being humble.

fd is a bad sheik stage versus any space animal.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I've never really thought about it since most Sheiks auto-ban FD vs me.....

It may be that my personal FD vs Sheik game would just need adjusting and that I'm used to always fighting Sheik on platforms, but I'm not sure.

To outright answer your question, I think Sheik doesn't really suffer on any stage vs Falco except PS come to think of it(but that's avoiding player preference and etc etc) so I think you could do better than FD. Even so, I don't think FD is all that bad vs Falco. Sheik has an interesting anti-laser game without platforms so that's not a huge issue anyway(though I won't deny there are less mixups....that just means you have to use those few mixups effectively though.....not like everyone abuses every anti-laser technique anyway). Lack of platforms would make it harder to edge-cancel out of throws(though still doable on the edge but you could just be thrown offstage then).....eh, that's a pretty interesting idea. If you do better on it personally then that would be cool.

 

[choknater]

armada is very evenly matched with him, it's not a crazy by far the best margin that mango m2k ken once had. but i believe pp can get there : )

or maybe not! tight competition is very fun to watch as well.

pp, were you losing seriouslies to mango at p5?

 

[Brookman]

I didn't mean that in a negative way. What I meant was, it would be more impressive to see people beating you than the other way around. You just have such a great play style and you're definitely impressive, I just expected you to take the top spot is all.

 

[Dr Peepee]

armada is very evenly matched with him, it's not a crazy by far the best margin that mango m2k ken once had. but i believe pp can get there : )

or maybe not! tight competition is very fun to watch as well.

pp, were you losing seriouslies to mango at p5?

When we both got fully going, I beat his fox pretty much every game and we went somewhere around even in Falco dittos I think.....but yeah I guess that means I lost seriouslies to him. I'm not ashamed of going relatively even with Mango though. I would feel great about it but it takes me too long to get to that point(and Mango is the only one right now that I usually can warm up to that point with haha, but tourney I suppose it'd be different).....

I didn't mean that in a negative way. What I meant was, it would be more impressive to see people beating you than the other way around. You just have such a great play style and you're definitely impressive, I just expected you to take the top spot is all.

Ahhh I see, well thanks. =)

 

[TaFoKiNtS]

I think one thing I like about FD is that I push the spacey towards the ledge or the side, the escape options become significanlty fewer and eventually the spacie has to do something risky to regain map control, which leads me into setting up a position in which I get a hit which forces the spacie to tech or lead me into a grab setup.

On platform stages against highly technical speacies, they have much more options with the platforms which makes it really difficult to get "near checkmate situations" and longer followups as I do on FD.

The laser game honestly is not too bad.I take the 2-6% in lasers and just walk in, haha.

 

[choknater]

mm wow man, that's impressive to hear!

 

[strawhats]

When we both got fully going, I beat his fox pretty much every game and we went somewhere around even in Falco dittos I think.....but yeah I guess that means I lost seriouslies to him. I'm not ashamed of going relatively even with Mango though. I would feel great about it but it takes me too long to get to that point(and Mango is the only one right now that I usually can warm up to that point with haha, but tourney I suppose it'd be different).....

his puff is relatively an unknown variable against you. Who knows if he'd even go Puff if pushed that far. It may not even be his best character anymore.

Ahhh I see, well thanks. =)

lol so humble.

 

[choknater]

humility is good

 

[Rubyiris]

humility is good. pp is being too humble.

you're the best mother****ing smasher in the world. have some confidence. ****, be egotistical for a while. you earned it.

plus i'd totally love to see pp call some *****es out.

 

[strawhats]

humility is good

truth in its highest quality

but I really wanna see dat puff vs pp falco

 

[Dr Peepee]

I think one thing I like about FD is that I push the spacey towards the ledge or the side, the escape options become significanlty fewer and eventually the spacie has to do something risky to regain map control, which leads me into setting up a position in which I get a hit which forces the spacie to tech or lead me into a grab setup.

On platform stages against highly technical speacies, they have much more options with the platforms which makes it really difficult to get "near checkmate situations" and longer followups as I do on FD.

The laser game honestly is not too bad.I take the 2-6% in lasers and just walk in, haha.

Sheik loses a lot of her camping/escape game as well though. Just like it seems on FD all of the time, punishment for stage control and any given hit is higher on FD. Maybe FD is a stage where one's strategy should change to focus more on stage control since one would benefit more from it? At least in a matchup like sheik/falco this would seem like the case, anyway....hm.

 

[Divinokage]

PP, keep being a warrior, you are doing just fine. =)

 

[Brookman]

So PP, it seems you have systematically mastered your vs. m2k game. I'm wondering if you think he's just stale vs you or if you think he's under-skilled or what? I'm really curious on your thoughts here.

 

[choknater]

feels like a press conference

 

[Dr Peepee]

PP, keep being a warrior, you are doing just fine. =)

That's what I like to hear! =)

So PP, it seems you have systematically mastered your vs. m2k game. I'm wondering if you think he's just stale vs you or if you think he's under-skilled or what? I'm really curious on your thoughts here.

Alright, I'll answer this then go to bed. *M2K if any of this bothers you I apologize in advance. <3


M2K....is a lot like me. Or maybe I'm more like him? We're like each other. It feels that way to me, anyway. We both like to counter things. We both get the most out of studying something and then having a nice and neat strategy planned out beforehand. The way we have developed now it's like M2K is much more static but better at punishing(or rather he has more guaranteed punishes whereas mine are more variable). I feel as though I excel past him in reading mid-game(a skill I worked hard to surpass him in, and one I'm admittedly still trying very hard to work on....there is so much more I feel I could see and come up with and everything I do is so narrow-minded when the pressure is on...but this is a long train of thought that can be saved for something else), among other things.

See, if M2K were more confident vs me, were more warm without Brawl distracting him, or didn't blow SO BADLY vs Falco it would be harder for me to control him(partly because he's top level and therefore has a concrete strategy/reaction format that I can learn/exploit....this is why I struggle vs some people that aren't quite as good but that's another tangent as well) and he could get his better punishment game going. In addition to that, he rides momentum extra well and this allows him to mess up less. M2K loses before he even plugs in vs me now because he psychs himself out, but I know what he's going to do to an extent(he only uses a few simple options during a few small windows of pressure, etc that I can easily adjust my strategy to because I know that's what he'll change). You see, when I play someone, I get a general "feel" for how they play(I can re-create trouble scenarios in my head if I watch a video or remember a match and then work on as many ways to solve it and how it affects the match and momentum and the matchup and all of my other mixups, etc for every single one) and what a matchup is like based off of that person. The more I play, the more I learn about players and characters. M2K, in his already reduced adaptive state from what I mentioned already, has it that much worse that I have videos to learn even more about him from(I don't watch them much and certainly won't much at all this time because it makes me feel bad....) and he's getting less on average out of the videos than I am I think(well, we get different things out, so maybe I'm being ignorant with that statement.....yeah I am, but I'm leaving it anyway so you guys will know).


Somewhere in there is your answer I think. <.< This is why I was gonna start a blog lol. I do this tangent stuff too much....

 

[Deleted member]

Lol maybe I'll find a way to impress again by the next major I attend. =)

And I don't know if I've really solidified that position yet, Umbreon. I feel like I have to be more consistent vs Hbox(I don't like how close our set was) and Armada(dropped a set to him at the same tourney I won) namely to have that title. And, personally, I want to beat Mango in our seriouslies more than he beats me when we're fully warmed up.

It's certainly arguable at this point, though. =p

so, do you want a major win on WC first? oh you did that. how about beating all the best players in the world? check. maybe you want to win more major tournaments than anyone else in the last 6 months. oh, did that too.

I think what you are describing is "best in the world and unchallengeable for that position also". you beat everyone, and fairly consistently. there is no better player for you to overcome. who else is left?

 

[Dr Peepee]

I want to beat Mango's Falco in a best of five tournament set.

 

[Deleted member]

I want to beat Mango's Falco in a best of five tournament set.

oh, well in that case.

you got this.

it's like final boss of a video game. bust out the energy drinks and your favorite chair.

but no seriously, i think you got it.

...let's talk more about confidence.

 

[choknater]

legit goal

pp just continue to post here rather than having a separate blog. tangents are fine, we all enjoy reading it. wobbles started a blog and i dont think many of us ic players actually check it out, and i'm sure we'd get more out of it if he posted those things straight onto the boards rather than onto the blog

though im sure it helps him in his own personal reflection

 

[Dark Hart]

START A BLOG!!!

START A BLOG!!!

cle

 

[choknater]

hahah mkay, or that

 

[Dark Hart]

START A BLOG!!!

START A BLOG!!!

cle