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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

KirbyKaze

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Man, Falco has so much potential for counter-gimping when you toss him off at low percent.

It doesn't usually work, but my god does it keep people honest.
 

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
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Man, Falco has so much potential for counter-gimping when you toss him off at low percent.

It doesn't usually work, but my god does it keep people honest.
Surprises you that much more when it works lol, though I think there's potential for improvement on edgeguarding him like that.

I agree with you though.
 

KirbyKaze

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Keeping people honest is half of what being top tier is all about!

The other half is flaunting that your combos, edgeguards, neutral game, stage positioning, speed, and priority is better than theirs.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
usually when i try to gimp falco at low percents like im a homoe i expect a double jump d-air so i hold right and just get ready to tech the side of the stage
 
G

genkaku

Guest
I'm preparing for my second tournament next saturday. First one exactly a year ago I didn't make it out of pools, which I expected. I'm much much much better now (I had been playing for about 3 months), but obviously have next to no tournament experience. I've only ever played people significantly better than me 3-4 times (curse you midwest), although my school friends and I play a few times a week.
I don't expect to do well by any means, but I'm a pretty smart person that learns fast, and I want to do as well as I can.
What should I do to prepare?
I've been practicing getting tech reads, fixed my spacing and mixups on shields and am paying attention to forcing favorable situations/positioning when I'm playing with my friends. I should have shine OoS consistent by tomorrow or the day after. I can do most of the other bread and butter stuff no problem, shine OoS is just tricky for some reason.
Um, I'm also experimenting with lasers, like blunted_object vs. mango stuff.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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genkaku catch a ride with the madison ppl and come to smashing grounds (or w/e its called these days) tomorrow
 

FoxLisk

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I'm preparing for my second tournament next saturday. First one exactly a year ago I didn't make it out of pools, which I expected. I'm much much much better now (I had been playing for about 3 months), but obviously have next to no tournament experience. I've only ever played people significantly better than me 3-4 times (curse you midwest), although my school friends and I play a few times a week.
I don't expect to do well by any means, but I'm a pretty smart person that learns fast, and I want to do as well as I can.
What should I do to prepare?
I've been practicing getting tech reads, fixed my spacing and mixups on shields and am paying attention to forcing favorable situations/positioning when I'm playing with my friends. I should have shine OoS consistent by tomorrow or the day after. I can do most of the other bread and butter stuff no problem, shine OoS is just tricky for some reason.
Um, I'm also experimenting with lasers, like blunted_object vs. mango stuff.
you should get in the mindset of having your own game down pat (that means probably cutting off any newly developing parts of it for the tournament) and focusing really hard on playing against your opponent using the tools you're fully comfortable with. try to watch their movement/teching/approaching patterns and do whatever you're already good at doing in such a way to punish them.
basically if you want to place your best, don't rely on anything you're experimenting with, only do things you already have down, and focus all your attention on how to deal with the way your opponent is playing. use whatever tools you already have, not those you're trying to develop now.
 

Bones0

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Falco would definitely be the best character with knee... His combos already consistently deal ~50%, and now they would always end with knee which guarantees edgeguards, which would just lead to ledge hopped reverse knees for KOs. Dair knees alone would be SO insane. Someone totally needs to mod a copy of Melee to do this...


Also, PP you were totally right about WDing towards Marth. I was using it like mad tonight and it worked almost all the time. It literally got me 2x more grabs. Every time I did it I was just amazed he wasn't just grabbing me, but it is so fast and as long as I landed outside of his grab range before WDing in he would be focused on predicting aerials and more lasers. Thanks. ^_^
 

ph00tbag

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i wasn't talking strictly about hitstun combo's, but more of after i get the hit how do i continue pressure and preserve momentum, that's what i lack. i hitconfirm too much and end up hesitating on my follow ups, which even though i might not be able to hit them again i should be in a much better position if i didn't hesitate, and be able to trade/make them scared and put pressure on them.

i'm not going for long outrageous combo's that aren't effective, i just am bad at riding momentum after the first hit
If you get a hit, but aren't confident you can follow up, jab is one of your best pressure moves. Jab them until you expect a retaliation, then counter their retaliation.

In case you don't know, you can cancel the link between jab1 and jab2 by crouching after the first jab. This allows you to just use jab1 repeatedly.
 

FoxLisk

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on the subject from a day or two ago of WDing in to get in on marth (or others i suppose) - has anyone considered/experimented with foxtrotting in? (i.e., IDA in and then IDA again into aerial/laser/whatever)? seems like it'd serve much the same purpose with the added benefit of giving your opponent a false visual cue
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Actually... i might disagree. Knee is ****ing broken and kills at 70%, making falco combo off shine and kill at much lower percents than fox.
oh you and I would think that, but the falco players wouldn't. they'd still focus on how falco has a bad run speed and has trouble getting in or whatever other problems they say they have but actually don't. it'd give falco a kill option at ~70% sure, but falco isn't exactly lacking on kill options. trust me, there'd be something to complain about, and it would just get tagged on to a pros list over fox like "laser stuns" but he wouldn't be the conclusive best.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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oh you and I would think that, but the falco players wouldn't. they'd still focus on how falco has a bad run speed and has trouble getting in or whatever other problems they say they have but actually don't. it'd give falco a kill option at ~70% sure, but falco isn't exactly lacking on kill options. trust me, there'd be something to complain about, and it would just get tagged on to a pros list over fox like "laser stuns" but he wouldn't be the conclusive best.
until they realized that knee has 4 frames bonus on shield and no longer even need a shine. They would simply complain that the knee has too much start up time to be usefull at all
 

leffen

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Falco has never had a problem with late aerials being unsafe (this is, however, a much more common problem in the rest of the cast). Knee wouldn't really help his shield pressure at all ;o.
 

leffen

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Jeff something. He has been the best in the world at ~5 games at some point in time (several SF2 versions, Age of Empires, Warcraft 2 etc) and has over 20 years over competitive gaming experience.
I just found this video amidst the MK ban discussion and I was really impressed
 

TheZhuKeeper

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Dair OOS, laser OOS, WD OOS, FH OOS. Those are the main responses to situations like that. If one of those doesn't work, then you executed at the wrong time lol(they expected one of those responses in other words).
Also rolling. Rolling really pushes people's reaction times just cause you have to really expect it to punish it.
 

~Tac~

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Learnin' everyday, K-Nan.

@leffen - I thought I was one of the few that actually saw those. I have a couple friends that play competitive SF. It's inspiring how they see the game and mentalities toward competition. There's another SF-related on Spacing/Zoning with some famous player I think. Even if you're spacing is on point, it's enlightening.
 

leffen

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I knew you guys'd like it ;)

Tac, could you link it? I think the SF players are more mature (but also a bit more limited) in their mindsets
 

ShroudedOne

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The answer for this varies each time I see it asked, but I never remember, so here goes: What CPU level will have the most random DI? I want to practice combos and things.
 

Bl@ckChris

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i would like to let it be known that the double wavedash forward is actually legitimately scary.

just try it.

i know i was afraid when ron did it, and it took me a second to figure out why. the tactic is legit. the speed and options are real.
 

Veetaak

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The answer for this varies each time I see it asked, but I never remember, so here goes: What CPU level will have the most random DI? I want to practice combos and things.
I feel like lvl 7 is the most random but I don't like high lvl'd bots cuz they jab too much it's just annoying.

You can still practise combos on low levels. It doesn't matter too much because if you Lcancel, shinecancel, waveland etc correctly then you should be able to follow up on alot of different DIs.

But to your question I have to say lvl 7 but I haven't looked it up and I guess it depends on what you mean by "random"
 

~Tac~

One day at a time.
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The answer for this varies each time I see it asked, but I never remember, so here goes: What CPU level will have the most random DI? I want to practice combos and things.
I want to say like 3-5. Nana occasionally does random DI and sits in that range. From my experience, level 9s do like..half DI. Then focus on recovery. Current air position:Ledge position = Priority recovery direction.

i would like to let it be known that the double wavedash forward is actually legitimately scary.

just try it.

i know i was afraid when ron did it, and it took me a second to figure out why. the tactic is legit. the speed and options are real.
I was there. I watched and I was scared for you. That ****'s intense.

I knew you guys'd like it ;)

Tac, could you link it? I think the SF players are more mature (but also a bit more limited) in their mindsets
Machinima Respawn: Super Street Fighter IV: Spacing by UltraDavid Even though it's SF4, he goes over things that apply to more than solely that game, from perspective of SF.

I think anyone who plays Smash should watch it. Especially as a mid-level competitive Smasher and above. If they're half open-minded, they can translate most of this to situations of Smash.

And as for maturity, he's wearing a friggin tie. Snazzy, lol.
 

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
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Also, PP you were totally right about WDing towards Marth. I was using it like mad tonight and it worked almost all the time. It literally got me 2x more grabs. Every time I did it I was just amazed he wasn't just grabbing me, but it is so fast and as long as I landed outside of his grab range before WDing in he would be focused on predicting aerials and more lasers. Thanks. ^_^
=)

on the subject from a day or two ago of WDing in to get in on marth (or others i suppose) - has anyone considered/experimented with foxtrotting in? (i.e., IDA in and then IDA again into aerial/laser/whatever)? seems like it'd serve much the same purpose with the added benefit of giving your opponent a false visual cue
Eh I kinda like that, but I've found that some people react to it like the beginning of a DD and don't really respond sometimes. People tend to avoid me when I run at them just beyond an initial dash startup so maybe I should mix in much more foxtrots in order to have people react to those instead.....it's worth messing with a little more even though I haven't had much success with it in the past.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-yKEeh70R8&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
This guys videos are amazing, if found it astonishing how well you could relate some of his examples to the top melee players
I love this guy <3 every time someone links one of his videos I really enjoy them haha.

Also rolling. Rolling really pushes people's reaction times just cause you have to really expect it to punish it.
Well yeah but I figured he knew that one already haha. Rolling is super beast though, I agree.

Mew2King uses lvl 4s. That's all the convincing I need, really. lol
I like lvl 1s and 7s m2k can have his 4s.
 

JPOBS

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Which means knee -> gentleman should beat shield grab even if you aren't frame perfect.
pretty sure it does. Knee->first hit gentlemen is frame proof i think. But the second and third hits are probably liable to get grabbed because sheild stun doesn't stack.
 

Bones0

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I feel like you would have to CC the first hit of the jab in order to shield the other two... why are we talking about knee -> gentlemen on the Falco forums? LOL
 
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