PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Habefiet]

I understand, Armada. That MU is such a joke. I'm still gonna do it with Peach though.

Good to know.

Shoutouts to Armada for once again accidentally hijacking PP's thread. Didn't he say he was going to start charging rent?

 

[unknown522]

Armada, why not use fox vs jiggs? (I think I may have asked before....but not sure).

I hear fox wins that matchup easily

 

[Armada]

Yeah but not Hbox destroy foxes
The main key is that I can't practice against her. If Europe would have a awesome Puff I could play against kinda often I would maybe change char but right now the situation are not like that

 

[Tekk]

Im on my way

 

[Beat!]

So is Slynus!

 

[Deleted member]

Armada, why not use fox vs jiggs? (I think I may have asked before....but not sure).

I hear fox wins that matchup easily

regardless of how the MU "should" be, hbox clearly had a harder time edge guarding YL more so than any fox.

 

[TaFoKiNtS]

I don't think people enjoy the subtle gameplay things that Westballz does that makes him get "over the hump", where as other Falcos such as stab/sung seem to be good, but not win sets against top ranked players.

- Watch Westballz aerial spacing. He is by far one of the best vertical spacing players I've ever played against. He'll pressure you into bad positioning with jumps and get a hit on you in very unusual ways
- He gets really good spacing, "chess-like" reads. Watch him trap his opponents with solid air spacing. It reminds of Mango in certain instances
- really great game sense. <== I feel like this is a very hard to learn skill. Watch Wes follow up with weak bairs into drills and get follow-up hits that no other falco would dare to try.

If you're looking at his ground to ground approach, it's simple, yes, but why does he need to complicate it?

 

[unknown522]

Yeah but not Hbox destroy foxes
The main key is that I can't practice against her. If Europe would have a awesome Puff I could play against kinda often I would maybe change char but right now the situation are not like that

that's true. I'm in the same boat for some matchups. There are some players here that have some decent aspects with their character (like falcon, jiggs, marth [excluding I.B. and weon-x], ICs, peach, falco) but the skill gap is just too big so I don't get as much as I want out of it vs them.

They still help with things like (pseudo) combos and spacing around certain moves and such, but then there's still problems when having to face a high-level opponent with those characters (less so vs falcon. Fox/Falco vs Falcon is just so gay), and they pull out random tricks and different kinds of spacings y'know?

Also, as much as people say that 'I'm good vs marth'. I do not feel so at all. There's just something about that character that I can't put my finger on. Some days I will just get ***** and feel like I can't hit him, then other days he will be my *****. I dunno if it's the opponent playing better, cuz some of those times I'm having trouble, I don't feel like I'm playing much worse than normal.

regardless of how the MU "should" be, hbox clearly had a harder time edge guarding YL more so than any fox.

I know. I was kinda trolling smashboards with that comment. Cuz a lot of people make it sound like jiggs vs fox is so easy

@ tafo: what? westballz looks better than them.

 

[knightpraetor]

marth vs fox is marth's most technically difficult matchup...dash away's need to be frame perfect and decisions and reaction time need to be on point in order to actually ever dodge fox and get those grabs....so it might be them playing worse..or it might just be you playing better....honestly on days when my tech skill is bad i can't dodge fox...but other days my tech skill is fine but the fox is just mixng up his timings real well so that i keep getting tagged for options i choose under pressure

you should just watch videos of your matches with them when you're doing worse and see why that is

 

[FlowinWater]

How is the Falco vs Puff match up? I am old school and they weren't beast Puffs back in the day, so no clue how Falco will deal with one.

HOLLA

 

[DewDaDash]

Don't play melee much anymore except the occasional friendlies with hbox.

Although I can't give much advice, heres a recent video that might help of hbox and shiz about a week ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEUA-lIh3lk

 

[unknown522]

^ man, Shiz got stomped hard by hbox. I watched the set a few days ago

marth vs fox is marth's most technically difficult matchup...dash away's need to be frame perfect and decisions and reaction time need to be on point in order to actually ever dodge fox and get those grabs....so it might be them playing worse..or it might just be you playing better....honestly on days when my tech skill is bad i can't dodge fox...but other days my tech skill is fine but the fox is just mixng up his timings real well so that i keep getting tagged for options i choose under pressure

you should just watch videos of your matches with them when you're doing worse and see why that is

indeed

 

[TaFoKiNtS]

@unknown if you read the statement, it states that westballz is over the hump whereas stabbed/sung aren't.

 

[whitemountain123]

How is the Falco vs Puff match up? I am old school and they weren't beast Puffs back in the day, so no clue how Falco will deal with one.

HOLLA

you should watch some pp vs hbox, like their exhibition sets at tipped off 7 for example

this is the match up I've played most so here's some advice I have:

if the puff is spamming bair, then you have to laser a good deal (laser no matter what, but lasers become especially important because it turns a puff who's trying to bair around and will throw off their rhythm)

dair, bair, and utilt are your friends---you can't get away with too much nair unless you're in their face and they're not dealing with it well or you're managing to laser just right as you approach

dtilt kills in the high 80's, and utilt around 110, upthrow to bair or uair is also a good killing option if they don't di the throw correctly

after low percents, mostly look for dair to dair to dair... followups because puff's techroll is pretty bad anyways

do your best to stay in the middle of the stage-->if you're ever off to the side, you can use fh or even dj (puff is a lot slower vertically than you) to retreat to the middle platform. puff is weird in that she's actually a character that it's ok to be above

be wary of puffs who just throw out aerials and wait for you to run into a bair, or who come off of platforms down to the ground with nairs and such that cut off a lot of space. laser them, get on their height level or directly above or below and wait for the right moment to jump at them.

oh and di their uthrow and shine off the top (yoshis, stadium, rc, especially) when possible
Edit: I'm scrubbish so take my advice with a grain of salt

 

[unknown522]

@unknown if you read the statement, it states that westballz is over the hump whereas stabbed/sung aren't.

oh, ok

 

[choknater]

wow flowinwater

that name takes me back

ah, the days before combo videos

 

[fortunecookie]

hey pee pee, I've been playing melee competitively now for almost 3 years and recently I've felt like I don't really understand what spacing actually is.... or more specifically how I should be viewing the space between mine and my opponent's characters. What I mean is that when I play, I just do whatever "feels" right, for example if my opponent starts running towards me and threatening an attack, I will usually just run away or jump or w/e to avoid them. What do you look for when you see the space between you and your opponent? Why is it that when I think you can hit someone with an approach, a lot of the time my opponent has the time to avoid me? I have seen lucien's video about staying out of range of my opponent's longest attack...which is what I usually try to do but even then it is difficult to judge the exact space between characters. right now I feel like I view smash as just a lot of scenarios that are all independent of each other and they all have rock/paper/scissors/reset outcomes depending on how both myself and my opponent reacts. Is there some general theory that is able to tie all of spacing together?

I realize that what I am asking is pretty unclear and I might be confusing several different concepts together... It's just that most of the posts in character discussion forums seem to be about comboing/edgeguarding/shieldpressure... and i can't find anything concrete talking about how I should space from a neutral position. I main fox btw cuz im a homo and i like winning

 

[ZodiakLucien]

as soon as westballs learns how to use his shield better everyones ****ed

 

[Divinokage]

Then you can just shield stab him, Falco's shield is ***.

 

[Strong Badam]

more like his head is huge as hell

 

[HugS™]

I wrote a long post, but I decided I'm probably just gonna blog it instead.

TL;DR (sorta)

Most of Socal knows what I am capable of, but they are well aware that I'm retired. It's somewhat flattering that even in my retirement, I will draw comparisons to upcoming players, but by no means should I be placed on scoresheet against anyone currently active right now.

Westballz, and some other Socalians say I'm better because they know what I'm capable of, but it's obvious that right now, Plup does better than me. But who cares? He did horribly at his first high-exposure tournament. Also, I averaged 3 days of total playing per the 6 months leading up to both Genesis, and Apex, respectively.

You guys are comparing a guy who angrily said "Whatever, this matchup is impossible!"...when he lost to Reno (no offense homie)...
To a guy who is currently unaware of the whereabouts of his GC controller.

Let this sh*t play out a little, that's all I'm saying. I let M2k build a legacy before I rode his nuts and tried to make Ken comparisons.

PS: It's also kinda funny that I find myself posting in the Falco boards more than anywhere else lately.

 

[ZodiakLucien]

I want a purple name

 

[Tee ay eye]

only reason i checked this thread was because i saw that lucien posted

also i like unknown's ren tao avatar

 

[big sleep]

wait so.....u've ridden someone else's nuts before, hugs? how'd you fit two nutsacks in your ***? skillz imo.

 

[choknater]

ronzell goin in

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

Oh cool. Hugs got unbanned

 

[stingers]

wait so.....u've ridden someone else's nuts before, hugs? how'd you fit two nutsacks in your ***? skillz imo.

omfg

 

[HugS™]

LOL I can't believe NC is still salty about **** that happened like...2-3 years ago?

PP let it go, you all should too.

 

[big sleep]

what happened

 

[Dark Hart]

What am I salty about?

 

[Deleted member]

I want a purple name

go earn it like the rest of us did. it's really not that hard.

 

[SSBMLahti]

I feel like most Falco mains these days are missing a very important aspect of Falco's laser game which is very beneficial to him, and that's Isai dropping lasers. It's as if this technique has been tossed aside. I'm not sure whether people haven't felt the need to learn how, or just haven't implemented and utilized it in their playstyle.

You used to see players like DaShizWiz, Lambchops, and Zhu Isai drop all the time, and their lasers seemed to be much more effective. Most Falco's I see playing recently tend to laser and drop down onto a platform, run forward and laser- which usually brings them in range of an opponents attack since they moved forward to laser off the side of the platform.

I find Isai dropping lasers to be very useful because if you lasers then Isai drop through a platform rather than run->drop off->laser, you're farther away from your opponent and hopefully out of range of most of their moveset. Now I know being closer to your opponent in some situations is a better option, but I feel like Isai dropping is overall a better and safer option.

Not only does it seem to be safer, but it does open up combo opportunities/setups that just dropping off from a platform TOWARDS the opponent and lasering doesn't have.

Also, if you don't Isai drop you tend to remove the coverage a platform above you, leaving you open from the top, whereas Isai dropping allows you to drop down->laser, except you're still under the platform.

Now I depending on where you are versus your opponent, you can always platform away reverse laser, blah blah blah, but that may put you too far out of range for any damage opportunities.

I know most of you won't read this because I'm a nobody, but I had to get it off my mind.

tl;dr: Isai drop yo laserz!

 

[Tee ay eye]

tl;dr: Isai drop yo laserz!

There's people that don't do that?

 

[Tee ay eye]

stuff.

wait, where did this come from? i didn't see anyone talking about samus anywhere this page.

nvm im a noob and dont know how to check older posts

@WestBallz:

I think there's a few reasons people think you're bad against floaties. I think you're generally fine against them (especially since you beat me LOL), but I'd just like to lay it out there.

First of all, you have proven yourself WAY more against fastfallers (Lovage, SW, S2J) and you just don't look like the same player against floaties. You lost to our Peaches at NYTE, though you have your issues with that. You didn't ***-**** Sheridan at NWM, so this made all the stream monsters talk about how you're "bad against floaties." Sometimes you go Falcon against floaties, so that makes people think that your Falco vs floaty game isn't on-par with the rest of your game. Idk, whatever it is, it just puts on an appearance that your vs floaty and vs fast-faller game are two different things.

On top of that, you're a technical Falco player, and some strange reason, I think people associate high levels of tech skill with spacie vs fast-faller. It also doesn't help that you're referred to as "the StrycNYN3 of the WC," and Stryc actually IS way better against fast-fallers than he is against floaties. The association just adds to the rest.

 

[unknown522]

only reason i checked this thread was because i saw that lucien posted

also i like unknown's ren tao avatar

I just read the Shaman King manga over (cuz I missed a bunch of episodes when I was younger).

Ren is the best character in that series!

Edit: I could see some people saying that about his set with Sheridan (I am not one of them, cuz he used secondaries). He kinda gave him the **** with falco though.

 

[~Twitch~]

LOL I can't believe NC is still salty about **** that happened like...2-3 years ago?

PP let it go, you all should too.

i mean if someone can't win without a coach they shouldn't win they're worse.

 

[JPOBS]

Ok, its story time boys. what's the beef between hugs and NC?

 

[unknown522]

That set where Lucky beat PP at pound 4. Where PP 4 stocked him game 1 and then lost the set. Apparently HugS coached Lucky after that game and it won him the set.

From what I heard anyway

 

[JPOBS]

LOL. that **** cray

 

[stingers]

wtf what does that have to do with anything tho.
what ronzell said was funny...all there is to it. nothing to do with that old ****