Nintendude
Smash Hero
Falco has the strangest combos on Puff LOL
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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dr Peepee
- Start date
Bones0
Smash Legend
Yeah, unlike IC's combos which are really boring and normal. 
Everyone always told me Fox has a guaranteed shine out of dthrow -> shine, but he doesn't (unless Training Mode is wrong somehow).
Everyone always told me Fox has a guaranteed shine out of dthrow -> shine, but he doesn't (unless Training Mode is wrong somehow).
Rocketpowerchill
Smash Ace
couple di questions
for smash di, is advanced sdi hard to learn or is simply inputing one direction with the cstick and one with the control stick viable
also if your not using that quarter circle stuff can you just mash towards stage while returning the cstick to neutral each time
or can you not input the same direction twice
and if you di in advanced how long will your asdi last?
plus, i see people beating the **** out of their controllers
1 are they doing quarter? half ?
2 how can you mash so much without ever doing an arial once the hit stun ends?
for smash di, is advanced sdi hard to learn or is simply inputing one direction with the cstick and one with the control stick viable
also if your not using that quarter circle stuff can you just mash towards stage while returning the cstick to neutral each time
or can you not input the same direction twice
and if you di in advanced how long will your asdi last?
plus, i see people beating the **** out of their controllers
1 are they doing quarter? half ?
2 how can you mash so much without ever doing an arial once the hit stun ends?
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
1. Not sure what you mean by advanced, SDI is simple in concept. Very hard to implement meaningfully due to the small windows.
2. Yes you can do that but that's basically never going to give you what you want because IIRC most moves have hitstun (or hitlag, whatever the applicable term is) between 1-18 frames. It will be extremely difficult or impossible to get more than like one-two inputs if you want to push a direction and let it reset. And that's assuming you do it perfectly preemptively and you have a reaction time of 0 frames. You can't input the same direction by holding it as far as SDI goes, that'll only give you one input.
3. I don't know what that means "if you DI in advanced how long will your asdi last?" if you hold a direction before getting hit you ASDI in the direction you're holding (which is small mind you) and your trajectory changes based on the same direction you were holding. Idk what you mean by "last." As long as you're holding it you'll do it.
4. Idk what people do it depends, from my experience some people just having that kind of controller etiquette. (I.e. everything they do makes a lot of noise, lots of clicks and jerks. I personally don't really ever do that)
5. Mash what exactly? There is no way to not get an aerial if you SDI too late (or a smash attack if you are grounded).
Rocketpowerchill
Smash Ace
okay, i will try harder to hold the right angles before i get hit.
but forexample, i know im about to get fsmashed, do i hold both sticks at the same time ?
mind my constant di bs tahci, sry man
i just wanna learn it and stick to it
i know what angles for survival and stuff, its a matter of not getting caught not di'ing
which i get caught up in a combo and eventually a tipper that i didnt di = dead
but forexample, i know im about to get fsmashed, do i hold both sticks at the same time ?
mind my constant di bs tahci, sry man
i just wanna learn it and stick to it
i know what angles for survival and stuff, its a matter of not getting caught not di'ing
which i get caught up in a combo and eventually a tipper that i didnt di = dead
Tarv
Smash Journeyman
Is it possible to stay grounded for falco's doubleshine? I can get the doubleshine down but I always get off the ground a little bit for the second shine.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
You're pressing b too slow.
It's definitely possible to do a grounded doubleshine (it's not even that hard).
It's definitely possible to do a grounded doubleshine (it's not even that hard).
G
genkaku
Guest
if you're doing it right you can stay grounded for not just two but a large number of shines, hence the term multishine. But it's hard to do many more than a handful.
[edit] ninja'd
[edit] ninja'd
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
really, don't worry about SDI at all. You can get by just DI'ing things properly and worry about that on the case by case once you become comfortable
Bones0
Smash Legend
Don't use the C-stick for DIing. It has very niche uses, and you're only going to make your DI awful trying to incorporate it.
You can input multiple SDIs by rolling the stick. For instance, if you want to SDI Fox's drill, you can smash left, roll the stick up to the top-left, roll it back down through left to the bottom-left. Each direction you cross counts as an additional SDI input. This is rarely necessary and really difficult even when it is, so I'd highly recommend just focusing on trajectory DI and simple, single-input SDI.
Rocketpowerchill
Smash Ace
werd
that clears up a lot of conflicting feelings in my mental game so i feel more comfortable
that clears up a lot of conflicting feelings in my mental game so i feel more comfortable
Divinokage
Smash Legend
I disagree, SDI is absolutely necessary, it enables you to avoid standard combos. When you master SDI even if you are Ganon, all characters wont be able to combo you that well.. they'll do max 2 link combo and then theyll be forced to play the neutral game. I learned to do that against Falco especially where as soon as shine hits there's no way in hell he'll be able to aerial combo.
But first things first of course, Id master regular DI so at least when you do you'll be able to see when exactly should you DI inside or towards the edge. It's like Falco going for a dair crossup.. on hit youll DI diagonally inwards so that shine wont connect but if he hits in front of you, you DI diagonally outwards so again a shine will whiff.
In some cases ive even managed to do crazy TAS DI where even after a falcon dair, he wasnt even able to connect a uair. lol.
S l o X
Smash Champion
Stab, do you have a skype or facebook or somethin?
stabbedbyanipple
Smash Master
Well, I don't really use skype very much, but feel free to add Matt Tafazoli on facebook
Bones0
Smash Legend
I said multiple SDI inputs on the same move is rarely necessary, which it is. It's especially unnecessary and bad advice to tell a new player who can barely DI at all to try to incorporate multiple SDI inputs.
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
Yeah, if you can't DI well at all you shouldn't focus on SDI.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Its only good vs moves with multiple hits because then it gives you a DI input for every hit.
Voltz
Smash Journeyman
Is utilting a lot a bad thing?
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Depends... It's really a question of how your opponent deals with the up tilt.
In the best case you end up beating his approaches all the time and you net big combos of it and that one time in the match where he doesn't get caught by it, he fails to punish the move...
But on the other hand he might fake out you with dash dance or sth all the time and then consistently manage to punish your ending lag ... in which case it'd obviously dumb to continue relying on it too much.
So yeah, just evaluate your risk/reward in each situation and then decide whether you want to go for it.
In the best case you end up beating his approaches all the time and you net big combos of it and that one time in the match where he doesn't get caught by it, he fails to punish the move...
But on the other hand he might fake out you with dash dance or sth all the time and then consistently manage to punish your ending lag ... in which case it'd obviously dumb to continue relying on it too much.
So yeah, just evaluate your risk/reward in each situation and then decide whether you want to go for it.
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
Utilting center stage on yoshi's works too well lol. People just jump straight into it from the platforms
Someone moved out of my neighbors apt and left a free 24 inch crt.
Been borrowing a cube, so I finally get to practice!
(I haven't practiced melee in about 2 years. I usually get by on existing smarts and muscle memory)
Sent from my Event using Tapatalk 2
Been borrowing a cube, so I finally get to practice!
(I haven't practiced melee in about 2 years. I usually get by on existing smarts and muscle memory)
Sent from my Event using Tapatalk 2
Tarv
Smash Journeyman
Whelp... At least I know it's just me being bad. Thanks anyhow.
Rocketpowerchill
Smash Ace
as im only doing single input di and still learning the basic angles and knowing when to hold what
i got question about cgs
at 0% is it possible for anyone to di out of range of stading grab?
just wondering what you do to make your opponent have to dash grab to get the cg off?
i got question about cgs
at 0% is it possible for anyone to di out of range of stading grab?
just wondering what you do to make your opponent have to dash grab to get the cg off?
FrootLoop
Smash Lord
you can't SDI throws (somebody will say except puffs fthrow but nobody cares), so max DI is just holding direction. at 0% if you DI behind marth he can't regrab. Marth doesn't have to move until your % gets to late teens, and I think he has to move earlier vs forward DI than vs behind DI.
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
If I'm not warmed up I can't do it at all. But once I've been playing it easy. Just remember it's only a 1 frame window so it isn't the easiest thing in the world, although it's not that hard.
Who's CG? The specifics make a difference lol. Marth regrabs by not moving or he can turn around until about 16% (For Fox, add a lil for Falco). Past that he has to pivot or dash grab. If he doesn't you can shine him.
Anyone want to falco ditto at zeneth?
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Sent from my Event using Tapatalk 2
Rocketpowerchill
Smash Ace
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
Eh not sure, I try to DI slightly behind because it can be awkward to judge, if that's not working then I just mix up hard away/in. Probably not the best answer lol. Don't forget if you're not going to DI the throw, or you DI slightly behind to mash shine. This forces the Marth to do it correctly.
stabbedbyanipple
Smash Master
The way I was told to DI marth's Uthrow a long time ago and what I pretty much still do when getting chain thrown is mix up slight behind and no DI.
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
^Seems legit(sarcastic). Although in all seriousness, I think if you're mashing for a shine out, you won't be DIing as well, and are probably worse off.
i feel like once you see the shine come out, a ****ton of escape options open up and if you hit them with your shine, with falco's it's like you just reversed the situation on them. of course, not much can be done if they know how to properly chaingrab so then you just mixup your DI, and look for any opportunities as they come
shine + mixing up slight/behind DI on chaingrabs sounds like the most effective way to trip up a marth main, and adding shine into the chaingrab escape in general forces marth to work harder for the regrab. also, at those percents where falco's getting chaingrabbed, i dunno how marth is gonna hard punish that without some sort of read
but i'm a terrible theorycrafter, so i dunno, someone smarter could say something to put me in my place
shine + mixing up slight/behind DI on chaingrabs sounds like the most effective way to trip up a marth main, and adding shine into the chaingrab escape in general forces marth to work harder for the regrab. also, at those percents where falco's getting chaingrabbed, i dunno how marth is gonna hard punish that without some sort of read
but i'm a terrible theorycrafter, so i dunno, someone smarter could say something to put me in my place
Bones0
Smash Legend
MM? ($1-5)
Don't mash, just time it.
This is good, but you can actually DI on top of them a little without going past them. It's a very small detail, but it makes it a million times harder for Marth to judge if you are behind him or not (which is compounded by the fact that they can tell you DIed differently than no-DI, so they usually assume you DIed slightly behind).
DIing for what? Marth can't hit you with any threatening moves until ~30%, and even then, DIing down on most of Marth's utilts out of a no/slight-DI uthrow isn't devastating (though certainly not recommended).
The main things I keep in mind that haven't been mentioned already are buffer rolling, teching, and full DI. When you're at 0% and you get grabbed, DI away and down to buffer a roll or spot dodge out of Marth's fthrow CG. Almost every Marth does it because uthrowing at 0% is really hard. I actually don't think he can regrab Falco is he DIs behind him on a uthrow at 0%. Either way, don't get fthrow CGed like a scrub. Once you are into the part of the CG where you are DIing on top of him, always keep your main focus on teching. It seems weird because it won't happen much (especially in friendlies where Marths just want to practice gdlk CGs), but many Marths will inevitably give up on the CG when they start having to pivot grab, and they will just go for a d/fthrow fsmash gimmicky thing. You can react in time for these, so no johns. I mention full DI because often after the Marth has done several slight turn around grabs or even pivot grabs, they are liable to start expecting your no/almost no DI. It's good practice to mix in the occasional full DI both to potentially get out because they don't expect to have to move very far, but even if they get the regrab, it is good for positioning yourself for the upcoming utilt combos.
Always position yourself so you can DI a utilt for a slideoff. It usually doesn't matter too much where you are, but you have to have multiple plans because you don't know when they will decide to utilt (at least not exactly). I tend to stick with slide DI at around 30% which is when most Marths start looking for utilts, and you have to know how they will utilt if you slight DI behind or if you full DI behind or whatever DI you plan on doing. I'd even recommend learning the Marth CG vs. a level 4 Falco or at least watch some Mew2King videos just so you can get a good perspective on what utilts Marths do on which DIs at which %s. If you know how they will utilt certain DIs, you can maximize your chances of escaping via a slideoff. As a general rule, I do not full DI between 30% and 90%. Utilts are pretty vicious vs. your DI length at 30% because you either go straight up or if you DI well, you've gone so far to one side that when you go back across Marth's body he is close enough to reach you. DIing on top from the throw and behind him on the utilt is the best at creating the most distance between you. I avoid DIing away on uthrows until 90% because that's around when uthrow fsmash stops working (I want to say 85% is the exact time, but I forget). I tend to not DI away even at high percents anyways because it seems easier to regain control from above with tricky shine stalls and FFs and dairs than to land from an uthrow near the edge of the stage or on a plat.
Also, I've said it before in this thread and others, NEVER DI Marth's uthrow off stage on FD when you are even remotely near the ledge. If you try to use your nifty slight DI behind towards the edge, he can just randomly fsmash (even at low %s where you don't die, you're suddenly about to get gimped), or he can regrab and start fthrowing you off stage, which can also lead to an easy gimp. Just let him get his 3-4 easy regrabs as you full DI towards the center of the stage, then you can begin using slight DIs to try to escape. There's just too many DI traps by the ledge that lead to edgeguards.
Rocketpowerchill
Smash Ace
at what percent can you start shining
when does the shine come out?
when does the shine come out?
Bones0
Smash Legend
When you can start shining is dependent on how early they grab. I don't know if it's even possible to shine out sub-30% if they grab as early as possible.
No MM, only friendlies, Bones. I'm barely going to have enough money to eat/take the train a few times. My hours got severely cut at work. x_x;;
Zeneth is the day I pay rent.
so my bank account is going to be emptyyyyy.
Zeneth is the day I pay rent.
so my bank account is going to be emptyyyyy.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Pride set then.
Rocketpowerchill
Smash Ace
with spacies how do you avoid fthrow chain grabs, do you have to buffer a roll or spot dodge
also i dont understand buffering so could you talk about the basics if buffered jumps, rolls etc.
also i dont understand buffering so could you talk about the basics if buffered jumps, rolls etc.
Idk, I mostly just want to practice falco dittos. it's my worst match up. If I pride/money matched you, I'd just go Fox or Falcon.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
call it pride Falco dittos then or something... Geez, way too much fuzz about something so irrelevantIdk, I mostly just want to practice falco dittos. it's my worst match up. If I pride/money matched you, I'd just go Fox or Falcon.
To escape the fthrow you need to DI down and away get away from him as far as possible (if you're interested in the exact angle you know what to do... Pick marth in training mode and throw a high percent player and then start DI'ing perpendicular to that), and afterwards you have to buffer a spotdodge or roll indeed. Just standing there and being "theoretically safe from grabs" isn't good to do you a whole good, if you don't do something to escape.
You can buffer a spotdodge (or roll) by holding the c stick down (side direction for roll obviouslylol ) and also holding down a shield trigger. I don't know whether a roll is actually fast enough (of course depends on how close to frame perfect the marth is lol)... The more interesting part about choosing which to do is probably the evaluation between the roll being slightly harder to chase down in case he reads you taking a defensive option fast enough to escape the grab and the better counter attacking chances from the spot dodge.