Practicing: Is it better to play melee or proj m for tech skill?

[Dubforce]

Me and a friend were having an argument about whether or not it would be better to play melee or project m to practice tech skill (with getting better at PM in mind). He was saying that, since in melee it is much harder to control your character accurately, playing melee would make you better at tech skill. I was countering him by saying that since we are trying to get good at project m it would be better to practice in project m because the game has a lot of specific mechanics to it.

Btw this came up because we played a few hours of melee a few days ago and I was doing a lot of dairs when i meant to fair/bair to the right, which I'm guessing has something to do with the way project m handles input, since it isn't my controller and I don't ever do that in project m.

 

[Kink-Link5]

How is Melee hard to control? In any case if you want to practice for PM, learning within the environment of PM's mechanics is blatantly obviously the right choice.

 

[Spiffykins]

Wanna learn PM? Play PM. Wanna learn Melee? Play Melee. Simple as that. Getting better at one will somewhat help you get better at the other and Melee skillz probably transfer more easily, but they're different games with different mechanics and techniques to master. Keep them separate in your head/muscle memory or you might end up trying to do PM stuff in Melee and "enter horrible failure mode," as Gimpy once said.

 

[Kally Wally]

After a lot of time playing PM and almost none playing Melee, it's basically impossible to play. Something just feels indescribably wrong. It doesn't help that you can't remap the controls, and I use a radically modified control scheme in PM.

Honestly, my biggest fear about PM is the developers doing too good of a job replicating Melee physics.

 

[Burnsy]

I consider turnaround mechanics in P:M to be one of the main differences in movement and aerial spacing that makes it difficult for me to transition to Melee. I've also become quite spoiled by the visual flash that occurs during L-cancelling in P:M its one of those small changes that you really appreciate once its gone.

 

[Wrestlemania]

Yeah, the Lcancel flash really has spoiled me as well it is fantastic. I personally only own a GC so if I want to practice tech skill on my own I have to do it with Melee. It definitely still helps, the just slightly tighter about of time you have to short hop keeps me sharp, and the lack of the flash keeps me focused. However, I still go over and get as much practice time on PM whenever possible, because that is the game I am actually practicing for.

 

[Strong Badam]

With getting better at PM in mind, practice PM. Dunno why you would think any differently.

 

[EpixAura]

If you want to get better at P:M, then of course you should play P:M, just as if you want to get better at Melee, play Melee.

That being said though, if you want to get better at BOTH, I'd play Melee more. From my experience, Melee experience carries over to P:M much better than P:M experience carries over to Melee.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Play both but play the game you want to get good at more. Project M has a lot of Project M specific mechanics you obviously need to practice but a lot of the hard-to-put-into-words "different-ness" of Project M like the input lag we had earlier and the 1 frame physics delay we have now are things that will be fixed to be more like Melee in later releases. Shorthop timings are more lenient in Project M IIRC so if you can shorthop in Melee you'll do fine in Project M but not necessarily vice-versa.

 

[Spiffykins]

Shorthop timings are more lenient in Project M IIRC so if you can shorthop in Melee you'll do fine in Project M but not necessarily vice-versa.

Are they though? This seems like something I'd be able to notice. The difference between 3, 4, 5, etc frame jump starts is always apparent, but playing the same character between PM and Melee, I don't notice a difference.

 

[standardtoaster]

The way shorthops are done is slightly different in Project M than in melee. Characters with a jumpstart of 3 (such as fox, sheik, samus) have a 2 frame window to shorthop in melee. In Project M, they have a 3 frame window to shorthop. Basically, the shorthopwindow in melee was jumpstart minus 1. In Project M, the window is the full jumpstart.

 

[Red(SP)]

A friend of mine played his Ganon in melee against my M2 for like, 15 minutes. We switch over to P:M, keeping in mind his Ganon was pretty ass around the time and he's beating the **** out of me the second we get back into the swing of things. Iunno, but I feel like he understood Ganon's previous foundation and implemented it with the newer stuff in P:M to kind of prove what he picked up about it in the first game. I had to tighten up my execution since I was sloppily playing with my secondary Lucas, but I still got in some very (debatable) stupid reads (i.e. zero to death on smashville was so ballsy, god; it was literally allied with the moving platform and a b-air towards the end lmao).

So on the subject of playing this game to get better at that game, I'm going to say playing either or wouldn't hurt. Slight changes should be kept in mind between the two, but we're all players and we need to adapt to whatever it is that comes our direction. There are others who'd disagree with me, but I had some tighter reads with my Ness because of playing Melee Ness for a few minutes, lol.

 

[Spiffykins]

The way shorthops are done is slightly different in Project M than in melee. Characters with a jumpstart of 3 (such as fox, sheik, samus) have a 2 frame window to shorthop in melee. In Project M, they have a 3 frame window to shorthop. Basically, the shorthopwindow in melee was jumpstart minus 1. In Project M, the window is the full jumpstart.

So this difference is independent of the physics delay?

 

[standardtoaster]

yes it's a separate thing

 

[Sandtru27]

play people who are actually good (that's your problem)

like Ian... and i guess no1 is there atm besides him for proj. m/melee (marsfool maybe? ask Ian)

 

[Kink-Link5]

Did someone just insinuate that a person's player base is their own fault? lol

 

[Sandtru27]

Yes. Because he has access to a semi-strong player base but has refused in the past to play w/ them b/c of differences. Hopefully this changes.

The worse people he plays against give him very little challenge and this babies his mechanics to this point. B/c you don't need good/solid mechanics to beat sh|t players.

Edit: god d4mn kinkajou

 

[Dubforce]

Yeah. I want to go to the GVille touney on the 22nd very badly...I just don't know anyone up there or how I would even get there. Maybe I can convice Ian to go. He can drive and I can pay for gas. I've never been in tourney and it would be great to see people, meet new people, and have both friendly/tournament matches against some good players. I really want to see how good I am compared to the best in FL, and not because I think I'm as good, but because I just want to know.

Also, Ian says my Pit is baller status and that I should main him. I believe it was between Gdubs, Pit and Ivy when he was helping me decide. My Gdubs is solid, but the luck on the hammer sometimes ****s you, and I think that was why he chose pit.

 

[Sandtru27]

I've never been in tourney

What about that one where you got 3rd to some fox and they had 2.5 or w/e before release? :trollface:

On the real tho, people would prolly travel in the fall if you start hosting local **** and get people excited.

It doesn't matter if you're ass or not. Going to tournaments improves you greatly (and it can be a fun experience)

you shouldn't be focusing on 9 hammers anyways b/c you have no control on that and it may (or, more likely, may not) provide any benefit.

 

[Dubforce]

That wasn't really a tourney. That was just a bunch of friendlies. I mean, it only cost 1 dollar to get in, and everyone there (including me) was ****. I was even better than the two winners, I just ****ed up a lot. I've had way harder matches just at UNF or my dorm.

I really want people to start coming out to UNF for ****, so I'll definitely be hosting stuff. I also need to get a capture card so I can stream the matches or record them.

And about hammers, the situations I'm talking about are where literally anything but 1-3 would be amazing, but I get 1-3.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Yes. Because he has access to a semi-strong player base but has refused in the past to play w/ them b/c of differences. Hopefully this changes.

The worse people he plays against give him very little challenge and this babies his mechanics to this point. B/c you don't need good/solid mechanics to beat sh|t players.

Edit: god d4mn kinkajou

Oh well then yeah that's his own fault lol. I took it a bit more personally than I should have for my own horrid player base and the nearest other players being a good 4-5 hour drive away.

 

[DMG]

Certain things feel different tech wise from Melee when playing Project M. If you are a hardcore Spacie player, I think you will be thrown off the most. Fox for example, it feels way too easy to SHDL now. I dunno what changed but it feels so much easier.

With that said, you're much better off focusing on the mechanical and character differences between games, not whether stuff is 1 frame off or anything similar. If you want to be good at P:M, you need to know when Sticky Tech rolls will help or hurt you, what characters benefit from reverse edge grabbing, how being able to RAR changes the meta, etc. Same thing with new stages and characters.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Landing detection is still not perfect with Fox, and momentum delays make for slower SHDLs. There was either a gif or video showing the difference but I would have no idea where to find it.