Prepare to be Astounded One Last Time: Wiseguy’s Brawl Predictions THE FINAL VERSION!

[Shadowplusle]

jigglypuff is my main and i dont see him dying anytime soon, so jigglypuff owns!

 

[Steel Braxus]

It's a good list, don't get me wrong...but it seems like a very SAFE list. What I mean is you didn't really take any stabs in the dark towards other characters being in the game that don't have an exceptionally high probability. Also, you let yourself off a little easy with the "OR" option. That's kind of like you saying you were right if either of the characters gets in.

 

[zigzaghakr]

yay ganon lives and pwns and owns ligglypuff to hell

 

[Shadowplusle]

Well you can take a stab in the dark if youre wearing night vision goggles. then it will be alright.

Fusion between ganon and jigglypuff. The would make a Ganonpuff. Just imagine how that ould look?

 

[bivunit94]

yay luig has been confirmed yay

Huh? When?

 

[Shadowplusle]

Thats exactly what i said about luigi

 

[Elysium]

Fusion between ganon and jigglypuff. The would make a Ganonpuff. Just imagine how that ould look?

Ganonpuff! Thats awesome.

I don't think we've gotten any news about Luigi aside from that "slip" from the Brawl "rep" that we've already discussed. Nothings confirmed until the Dojo states it.
"So sayth the Dojo, So sayth the flock"

 

[zigzaghakr]

there was a picture someone had posted

 

[Shadowplusle]

the picture was probably a photoshop or something

 

[bivunit94]

Yeah...that was just a photoshop for Wiseguy to use in here.

And even if it was real, Dedede is more exciting than Luigi ^.^

 

[Elysium]

Yeah...that was just a photoshop for Wiseguy to use in here.

And even if it was real, Dedede is more exciting than Luigi ^.^

Too bad Wavedashing is out, or Luigi would Waverape Dedede, and then taunt kill to inflict mental anguish.

IMO Luigi > Dedede

 

[zigzaghakr]

Luigi and I think the WTF character should be *drumrolls*... Me thats right zigzaghakr

 

[bivunit94]

Too bad Wavedashing is out, or Luigi would Waverape Dedede, and then taunt kill to inflict mental anguish.

IMO Luigi > Dedede

As far as importance, yes. As far as surprise factor, Dedede wins.

And. I wonder if Luigi is still gonna be any good now that wavedashing is a thing of the past?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Too bad Wavedashing is out, or Luigi would Waverape Dedede, and then taunt kill to inflict mental anguish.

IMO Luigi > Dedede

Dedede> Everyone

 

[bivunit94]

Olimar > Megaman > Dedede> Everyone

QFT

Just had to make some corrections.

 

[Elysium]

Dedede> Everyone

What about Ridley?

 

[Metaknight X]

Ganonpuff! Thats awesome.

I don't think we've gotten any news about Luigi aside from that "slip" from the Brawl "rep" that we've already discussed. Nothings confirmed until the Dojo states it.
"So sayth the Dojo, So sayth the flock"

Hang on, so all the footage we saw from E 4 All doesn't count, because it hasn't appeared on the Dojo yet? You have some seriously flawed logic my friend. As for the Luigi thing, I now see that it's not a confirmation by any means. Still pretty darn funny though

 

[Loooooni]

Dedede> Everyone

No Geno>Dedede>Olimar>everyone else

 

[Brawlmatt202]

What about Ridley?

No where near.

 

[Bassoonist]

No Geno>Dedede>Olimar>everyone else

No, Isaac>Geno>Dedede>Olimar

I hope they all make it, that'd be nice!

 

[Zevox]

That seems reasonable, but could that also mean that we might only get 2 SF reps then, and 3 for FE? or vice versa?? Never thought about that....

Its possible, but you also have to take into account that half of the Fire Emblem series is Japan-only, while Star Fox is entirely international, and reasonably popular everywhere - not as popular as FE in Japan, but more popular than it elsewhere. Plus, of course, what Copperpot said about the respective roles of the characters in each series - Star Fox does have an advantage in that its characters are constants, which helps them build popularity among their fans, resulting in clearer choices for the game than Fire Emblem has overall (in spite of all the Micaiah love we have around here at present, that third spot for FE could easily go to just about anyone - even Roy returning might be possible if Sigurd is really just an Ike costume).

In the end, I personally think both easily can and should get three characters - Fox, Falco, and Krystal for Star Fox; Ike, Marth, and Micaiah (or someone else) for Fire Emblem. We'll just have to wait and see the end result.

Zevox

 

[hojiky]

having never played the game, i wouldn't know if there'd be a good character choice here, but....


what's everyone's take on super monkey ball characters?

 

[Elysium]

In the end, I personally think both easily can and should get three characters - Fox, Falco, and Krystal for Star Fox; Ike, Marth, and Micaiah (or someone else) for Fire Emblem. We'll just have to wait and see the end result.

Zevox

That would be awesome. Though I feel like that would be extreme wishful thinking to get 3 for each....

what's everyone's take on super monkey ball characters?

Yan-Yan ftw! Whenever I play super monkey ball BB, It's always Yan-Yan in first place.
As for a monkey ball character in brawl, no way. We got DK and Diddy I think were good. imo

Whats everyones take on the saving the replays in brawl? The Dojo said that you can save up to 3 mins of video. Is that just on the Wii's internal memory? Do you think we could get more if it were able to be saved on SD cards?

 

[Legolastom]

what's everyone's take on super monkey ball characters?

Use your brain, thats my take on it.

And yhea of course your able to save it on an SD card... look closely at the last picture.

 

[Zevox]

what's everyone's take on super monkey ball characters?

They're from Sega, who already have Sonic in, and ergo have no chance. Even if Sega got a second character, it would be Tails (Sonic's long-time sidekick), Shadow (the present most popular secondary character from Sonic's series), or NiGHTs (due to his upcoming Wii game), not a Monkey Ball character.

Zevox

 

[Kunitsuna]

Monkey Ball characters could very easily appear as Assist Trophies, though.

 

[zigzaghakr]

Yea they would make better assist trophys than characters

 

[raphtmarqui]

I wonder if there will even be 3rd party assist trophies at all.
I dont see why not but considering how they would have to get legal permissin first, they might not even bother.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I was thinking, when it comes to animal crossing everyone I've met has talked about characters from animal crossing: wild world on the ds......what about the gamecube version and the characters that didn't make it to the Ds?

Which is why I'm supporting Porter(the monkey that looks after the train in ac) for brawl.

Or wisp but he's a ghost with stubby hands so I'm not sure.....

and just so you know I couldn't care less if anyone wants to go on about why everyone wants ac characters in brawl, save your fingers the stress of typing it cause I'm not listening to any of that (I've heard enough of it to last me a lifetime )

 

[zigzaghakr]

I wonder if there will even be 3rd party assist trophies at all.
I dont see why not but considering how they would have to get legal permissin first, they might not even bother.

Good point maybe some sonic characters and I think eggman has got sometin to do with subspace robot's to robotnik to be anyone else

 

[OysterMeister]

Dang. Life gets in the way and I can't post a reply until now, several days later. Hope the argument isn't dead in the water; but whatever, I'm continuing this anyway.

Consider if, hypothetically speaking, Ike did not exist and Marth were returning as the sole Fire Emblem representative in Brawl. And, again hypothetically speaking, supose that they were faced with the decision of either nerfing him into oblivion like Fox or changing his moveset into something only vaugly recognizable. And suppose that with characters like Metaknight and Pit filling the niche of "Nible swordsman" they opted for the second option and reimagined him and ultra heavy sword fighter with awesome power and terrible speed.

Now, if all that were to happen (as outlandish as it is) should the new Marth be considered a replacement for the new one?

Well, yes, in the same sense that cheese would be a replacement for milk if you were to put it on your cereal. But, hypothetically speaking, if I decided to replace one character with another character who's completely different, I wouldn't go around calling him a replacement, as that would be misleading. I'd just call him a new character.

Anyway, I find the scenario of Ike being a redesigned, heavy Marth to be highly unlikely (regardless of whatever scenario you place it in) for the following reasons:
1) The idea that the Brawl team would somehow get cold feet about nerfing Marth after they've already proved their nerve by nerfing Fox.
2) The idea that Metaknight and Pit are somehow similar enough to Marth's melee appearance that the Brawl team wouldn't want to include Marth for fear of redundancy. This idea is just flat out strange, because it requires that you ignore such factors as size, ability to fly, projectiles, relative attack speeds, each and every special move, smash attacks, and common sense.
3) The assumption that the Brawl team would first cut Marth, and then decide to bring his moveset in anyway. If the Brawl team is so strapped for time that they'd be cutting unique characters, why do they suddenly have the time to go through the much more time-consuming process of re-creating what they've already left behind?
4) The idea that Marth's moveset would have to look different if they designed it to be heavy. If the clones have taught us anything, it's that no moveset is inherently strong, weak, light, or heavy. What is it about an upward swing (Ike's upsmash) that makes it inherently more heavy than an upward stab (Marth's upsmash)? Why is a helicopter spin (Ike's uair) a heavier attack than an apward slash (Marth's uair)? They aren't. It's the stats that determine the weight of a moveset (as Captain Falon and Ganondorf prove), not the moves themselves. So a redesigned Marth wouldn't need a new moveset.

So the lack of a Marth costume supports his return? Call me crazy, but I'd say the only thing that separtes the Sigurd costume from Marth is the colouring of his shirt (it's white, while Marth's is a light blue). That's hardly conclusive, regardless on where you stand on Marth's return.

It's more than the shirt, it's the pants too. They're white instead of dark blue. That's a big difference. So the supposed Marth costume of cape, shirt, and pants really only has the right color for the cape. That's one out of three, which in my book is a failing grade. I'd say that's conclusive proof that this isn't a Marth costume.

I don't disagree that most of Ike's moves behave differently, but if you look at examples like Ike's fair, it's essentailly a nerfed version of Marth's (due to the slowness). I can't see how single handed vs. double handed makes a ton of difference.

I'm not saying that Ike will replace Marth in terms of his role as a nible sword fighter or that his moveset will be a carbon copy of Marth. My theory is that they took Marth's moveset as a starting point and remade it with Brawl specifically in mind, to fill the niche of heavy sword fighter, to suit Ike as a character, and to be more balanced.

Again, there's nothing in Ike's moveset that makes it inherently heavier or more balanced than Marth's. There's nothing that makes a swing less balanced than a stab, or a stab heavier than a swing. If Marth kept all his stats, he'd be broken no matter what moves he had. And even if Ike kept all his animations, but attacked with as much speed and as much power and with a sweetspot like Marth, he'd be just as broken as Marth was. Ike is (so far as we know) balanced because of the stats he has, not because his side special attacks differently from Marth's.
So there's no reason to change Marth's moves in order to rework them. Which is why Ike's moves being different is strong evidence AGAINST him being a Marth replacement.

 

[kainsword]

Going beyond the Lords of any FE game is simply rediculous. Lords = Most Important Character. The Fire Emblem roster must represent an entire 10 generations of FE games, not just the latest FE game. Super Smash Bros is a collaboration of Nintendo's history, after all about 95% of everyone here didn't know squat crap of anyone called Pit until Melee's Trophy or didn't recall his trophy. Universally Important characters is craptastic reasoning. Pit wasn't universally important until now; He even has his own Wii game in development.

Micaiah = NO.

Fire Emblem has 10 games under its belt. TEN. You only give it two spots? Rediculous. Marth is a shoe-in, he was the Lord that started the entire series and his generation even had its own anime for... a few episodes. Hell, he even has his own DS game coming too. He's definitely the only Lord to be in an astonishing THREE games, beating the tie Ike and he were in. Ike was a shoe-in too, the GameCube transition marked a very important place for the creators; the transition to 3D format. Sigurd was the first Lord of the most popular FE game EVER (There were two storylines, and two main Lords. Sigurd and his son Celice) That alone recommends the placement of a great FE character to celebrate the popularity of the game.

3 FE Representatives -- Marth, Sigurd/Celice, Ike

It's reasonable and much more sensible than your opinion.

 

[Kirby knight]

Going beyond the Lords of any FE game is simply rediculous. Lords = Most Important Character. The Fire Emblem roster must represent an entire 10 generations of FE games, not just the latest FE game. Super Smash Bros is a collaboration of Nintendo's history, after all about 95% of everyone here didn't know squat crap of anyone called Pit until Melee's Trophy or didn't recall his trophy. Universally Important characters is craptastic reasoning. Pit wasn't universally important until now; He even has his own Wii game in development.

Micaiah = NO.

Fire Emblem has 10 games under its belt. TEN. You only give it two spots? Rediculous. Marth is a shoe-in, he was the Lord that started the entire series and his generation even had its own anime for... a few episodes. Hell, he even has his own DS game coming too. He's definitely the only Lord to be in an astonishing THREE games, beating the tie Ike and he were in. Ike was a shoe-in too, the GameCube transition marked a very important place for the creators; the transition to 3D format. Sigurd was the first Lord of the most popular FE game EVER (There were two storylines, and two main Lords. Sigurd and his son Celice) That alone recommends the placement of a great FE character to celebrate the popularity of the game.

3 FE Representatives -- Marth, Sigurd/Celice, Ike

It's reasonable and much more sensible than your opinion.

You are forgetting the advertisement aspect. Every character included in smash has a direct influence on their respective franchise; as least from a general public stand-point. Keep in mind that Super Smash Brothers Brawl is geared toward's the general public.

A character roaster of Ike, Marth and Sigurd/Celice would have a negative response from the general audience. Marth has got merit, Ike has got merit, but Sigurd he has merit but unless he has a horsebased and lance based fighting style he would not add much to how the Fire Emblem franchise is represented.

The Fire Emblem series has viewed by the general public has gotten a reputation of having nothing by sword using lords ( Now do not mistake this by thinking I am against more sword users in brawl. I am aware they sword fighters can be given very unique movesets but the fact still remains, a sword is a sword not matter why style it has). Seeing a repetative weapon choice over and over again doesn't quite go over that well when trying to appeal to the general audience.

One of the reason's why I supported Lyndis up untill she got deconfirmed, was the fact that she had a very unique sword fighting style, as well as using a bow. She also would broaden the opinion of the general public, by showing them that, yes their are strong females in the Fire Emblem series not just blue haired lords who use nothing but swords. Some reasons I think Lyndis may have been put into AT status is: She uses a very common weapon type (sword), not of central importance to her respective Fire Emblem game.

Micaiah on the other hand does not have these problems as she uses an entirely unique style of fighting that has never been represented in the Fire Emblem roaster. She is of central importantance to her Fire Emblem game (Radiant Dawn). She helps promote sales of Fire Emblem RD, as well as the Fire Emblem series as a whole by breaking the generic standard that has been presented by previous lords included into SSB (Ike, Marth, Roy).

From a sales perspective adding Micaiah to the Brawl roaster would be a great choice because she has the presence to boarded the general appeal of Fire Emblem. Someone who is a general gamer may see Micaiah (If she's included in Brawl) and say "Wow, a Fire Emblem female, she looks very interesting I think I may pick up RD and check out other FE games" she breaks the sterotype that Fire Emblem is nothing but sword fighters.

That's my opinion, I don't have a problem with the roaster of Marth, Ike, and Sigurd as long as they have very very very unique movesets from each other, otherwise that will only increase the "Fire Emblem only has boring sword fighters" to the general public.

-Knight

 

[Wiseguy]

Rememebr yesterday when I said I would update my thread? I lied to you. But to make it up to you, I updated my thread tonight. Check it out. I've devided to up my arbitrary character limit to 44 (which makes for a character selection screen with 40 choices). Check it out, I've cut my "either/or" predictions to two and I've included two brand new characters. Enjoy.

Perhaps. But the way I see it, if Marth were truly not returning (and presumably his clone Roy is gone as well), would they not want to give at the very least a decent nod to his fans by maintaining at least a fair portion of his fighting style in his successor? In which case, should we not expect to see more similarities between the two than we do?

Perhaps.

I could see it going either way, frankly. But, although he IS very different, I do suspect that Ike's moveset will has small traces of his predessour still.

Or perhaps a certain new addition to my list will fill the void of Marth-esque swordfighter...

Ah, but for over 2/3 of the series' life, Fire Emblem was a Japan-only franchise, and we certainly know that its popularity is much greater in Japan than outside of it. Perhaps there are more fans from other nations now, but that is only due to the rest of the world put together outnumbering Japan's fan population, not because they are the chief source of Fire Emblem support or fans. In Japan, we have plenty of evidence of him being the franchise's face, especially in his being selected as the star of the anime and his high position on the Melee newcomer poll.

The Melee poll, fine. But without a "returning character poll" for Brawl, we don't know if Marth-mania is still going strong in the country. After all, all but one of the FE characters on the Brawl Japanese poll were from PoR - a game popular EVERYWHERE.

The anime was a flop, so I wouldn't exactly call his role in it a good sign...

Thats two of those three points we can agree on, then. I simply disagree with the belief that he won't make the cut, since I feel he clearly stands out from all other FE characters as a viable rep for the series. If you disagree with that, cool, we can just agree to disagree and see which one of us Sakurai & his company agree with in time.

Yeah, I'm cool with that.

I just might . Personally, I expect Captain Falcon to be the next revealed, due to our greater than month-long veteran drought and his status as a starter in Melee, but I'd be just as happy to see any of them confirmed.

Yeah, where is Falcon? He's like the new MetaKnight.

As Pyras said, I'm thinking both is distinctly possible. Fire Emblem is a fairly large and important franchise to Nintendo: twice as large as the Star Fox series (who many believe will get three characters), approaching the size of the Zelda series (not counting remakes, FE is at 10 games and Zelda at 13), and it was the series to start the tactical RPG genre among video games - sounds like a three-character series to me. Seeing Ike, Marth, and Micaiah all seems a distinct possibility IMO.

Zevox

I'd love to see 3 FE reps, as it's easily one of my favorite franchises. But although it's fanbase is loyal, it's not quite as large as the likes of Pokemon, for example. And with F-Zero proably stuck with one character again, not to mention the DK series (one Nintendo's big character franchises) probably getting only two, I don't want to get my hopes up.

Dang. Life gets in the way and I can't post a reply until now, several days later. Hope the argument isn't dead in the water; but whatever, I'm continuing this anyway.

I know the feeling. Expect at least 2 days delay between my replies until classes end for the Christmas break.

Well, yes, in the same sense that cheese would be a replacement for milk if you were to put it on your cereal. But, hypothetically speaking, if I decided to replace one character with another character who's completely different, I wouldn't go around calling him a replacement, as that would be misleading. I'd just call him a new character.

Anyway, I find the scenario of Ike being a redesigned, heavy Marth to be highly unlikely (regardless of whatever scenario you place it in) for the following reasons:
1) The idea that the Brawl team would somehow get cold feet about nerfing Marth after they've already proved their nerve by nerfing Fox.
2) The idea that Metaknight and Pit are somehow similar enough to Marth's melee appearance that the Brawl team wouldn't want to include Marth for fear of redundancy. This idea is just flat out strange, because it requires that you ignore such factors as size, ability to fly, projectiles, relative attack speeds, each and every special move, smash attacks, and common sense.
3) The assumption that the Brawl team would first cut Marth, and then decide to bring his moveset in anyway. If the Brawl team is so strapped for time that they'd be cutting unique characters, why do they suddenly have the time to go through the much more time-consuming process of re-creating what they've already left behind?
4) The idea that Marth's moveset would have to look different if they designed it to be heavy. If the clones have taught us anything, it's that no moveset is inherently strong, weak, light, or heavy. What is it about an upward swing (Ike's upsmash) that makes it inherently more heavy than an upward stab (Marth's upsmash)? Why is a helicopter spin (Ike's uair) a heavier attack than an apward slash (Marth's uair)? They aren't. It's the stats that determine the weight of a moveset (as Captain Falon and Ganondorf prove), not the moves themselves. So a redesigned Marth wouldn't need a new moveset.

1) Yes, if they wanted Marth to return, they could nerf him no problem. But it's the if that's still up in the air.

2) Neither Pit, nor Meta nor even Ike make Marth irrelivant in and of themselves. By they all have elements that are similar to Marth's. And if Takamaru makes the cut as well, I don't see Marth's moveset as terribly vital.

3) I think the thought process was more that they first decided that they first decided that Ike made Marth irrelivant when the roser was being decided, so they included Ike with Marth's moveset. Then, as they were tweaking all the characters, they drastically changed Ike's moves and stats to fill a niche within the roster (a strong, heavy sword fighter). Then, to fill the niche of Marth-eaque swordfighter, they went with Takamaru.

4) No, I'm not saying his heaviness or was why they changes the attack animations. The moves were likely changed to fit Ike as a character, I suspect.

It's more than the shirt, it's the pants too. They're white instead of dark blue. That's a big difference. So the supposed Marth costume of cape, shirt, and pants really only has the right color for the cape. That's one out of three, which in my book is a failing grade. I'd say that's conclusive proof that this isn't a Marth costume.

Point taken.

Again, there's nothing in Ike's moveset that makes it inherently heavier or more balanced than Marth's. There's nothing that makes a swing less balanced than a stab, or a stab heavier than a swing. If Marth kept all his stats, he'd be broken no matter what moves he had. And even if Ike kept all his animations, but attacked with as much speed and as much power and with a sweetspot like Marth, he'd be just as broken as Marth was. Ike is (so far as we know) balanced because of the stats he has, not because his side special attacks differently from Marth's.
So there's no reason to change Marth's moves in order to rework them. Which is why Ike's moves being different is strong evidence AGAINST him being a Marth replacement.

Again (ha!) I think the changes to the individual moves were made after Marth's fate was decided to suit Ike better. Marth COULD certainly return, and I'll be the first to admit that he stands a good (even great) chance of returning. But my scenario isn't out of the question either.

Going beyond the Lords of any FE game is simply rediculous. Lords = Most Important Character. The Fire Emblem roster must represent an entire 10 generations of FE games, not just the latest FE game. Super Smash Bros is a collaboration of Nintendo's history, after all about 95% of everyone here didn't know squat crap of anyone called Pit until Melee's Trophy or didn't recall his trophy. Universally Important characters is craptastic reasoning. Pit wasn't universally important until now; He even has his own Wii game in development.

Micaiah = NO.

Fire Emblem has 10 games under its belt. TEN. You only give it two spots? Rediculous. Marth is a shoe-in, he was the Lord that started the entire series and his generation even had its own anime for... a few episodes. Hell, he even has his own DS game coming too. He's definitely the only Lord to be in an astonishing THREE games, beating the tie Ike and he were in. Ike was a shoe-in too, the GameCube transition marked a very important place for the creators; the transition to 3D format. Sigurd was the first Lord of the most popular FE game EVER (There were two storylines, and two main Lords. Sigurd and his son Celice) That alone recommends the placement of a great FE character to celebrate the popularity of the game.

3 FE Representatives -- Marth, Sigurd/Celice, Ike

It's reasonable and much more sensible than your opinion.

Listen to Kirby knight. He knows his stuff.


______________________________________________________________________

In other news, I got a message from the future tonight. My future self told me in a vision that Ridley will be revealed tonight, so prepare for supreme awesomeness!

-Wiseguy out

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

4 third parties FTL... (5 if you count Geno... :O )

Dr. Kawashima would more WTF than Mr. Game and Watch, future kudos to you, you'll really be amazing and astounding if THAT comes true. But, I doubt it.

Takamaru is a solid choice, but I'd rather see more Mother.

All in all, decent.

 

[Devastlian]

Roffle. Never thought I'd see you put Takamaru on your list. Good thing you finally figured out how to spell his name...can't say the same about "samurai", though. :1

Anyway, any game with Mewtwo, Mr. Game & Watch, King Dedede, and Takamaru wins the universe.

 

[Zevox]

Or perhaps a certain new addition to my list will fill the void of Marth-esque swordfighter...

Yeah, hate to tell you, but I (and most Marth supporters, as far as I've seen) don't want Marth back just because of his fighting style, I want him back because I feel hes the single best suited character to represent Fire Emblem in SSB. Takamoru's presence or absence is an irrelevancy to me.

The Melee poll, fine. But without a "returning character poll" for Brawl, we don't know if Marth-mania is still going strong in the country. After all, all but one of the FE characters on the Brawl Japanese poll were from PoR - a game popular EVERYWHERE.

You're referring to [thread=71872]this poll[/thread], right? Because I count 4 from PoR (Ike, Black Knight, Mia, Soren), 1 from Genealogy of the Holy War (Sigurd), and 5 (or 6, if you count the twins as two) from Marth's games (Oguma, Nabaru, Sheeda, Maji/Saji, Jeigan). And thats with Marth ineligible for the poll due to being a veteran. You'll also note that Oguma was the only FE character other than Ike to get more than 1 vote.

Zevox

 

[kainsword]

Listen to Kirby knight. He knows his stuff.

I argue from a historic collaboration perspective, which is the reason why the SSB series exists, and Kirby Knight argues from the Marketing perspective. There's no reason why I should adopt his fashion of thought, unless he can argue on Sakurai's belief and behalf on why the Marketing perspective of Brawl is a more sensible choice than one based on historic content.

Someone who "knows his stuff" doesn't necessarily mean they argue on behalf of Sakurai's premise on Brawl. Besides, if taken from a 'Marketing' perspective, doesn't this mean that down the line a new SSBB consumer would be inclined to buy Sonic games, meaning less possible revenue for Nintendo?

1. They spend money to get right to reproduce 3rd-Party characters for Brawl. This is simple; Nintendo's going out of their way to say "Please let us use ____ character. We'll give you money..."

2. They lose potential money when the consumer purchases 3rd-Party games because of the positive influence of said characters in Brawl. For example, if I buy Metal Gear Solid 4, that is potential money lost that could've benefitted Nintendo. I support Sony and Konami, both of which don't profit Nintendo, by giving them funds for their products, which could've been spent buying a second DS and several games to support Nintendo even more.

Where's the Marketing sense in doing this? Doesn't Nintendo lose possible cash by doing this? The only sensible reason I've ever concluded to this reasoning is this -- Nintendo indeed celebrates decades of great videogame history with veteran mascots of Nintendo gaming history. Nintendo indeed acknowledges the historical importance of Sonic and wants the player to learn about the amazing mascots of Nintendo history.

I sure did learn about Pit when he was announced, before all I knew is that he had two games, both of them marketing failures, and what was given on his trophy. But most importantly, I learned that Kid Icarus and Metroid were released on the same day and ran on the same engine. If the consumer instead at the time preffered Kid Icarus over Metroid, we'd be playing Kid Icarus Prime 3: Corruption at this day. However, Metroid prevailed largely due to space-age hype in that time of year, games such as Galactaga were great, movies like E.T. were immensely popular, a new interest in the space program grew, etc.

Pit is the celebration of what could've been and he now has a slated title in production because of his appearance in Brawl. Will we have a new Ice Climbers game? Maybe. Would we have gotten some Super Punch-Out!! sequels if Little Mac had become a popular playable character? Possibly.

Marketing ignores what the fanbase wants and needs. Sakurai had a purpose in setting player-polls. He wants to please the fans and interest newcomers as well.

In consideration to the Radiant Dawn advertisement -- The Fire Emblem advertisement is already there. Ike is the Lord of Radiant Dawn and sufficiently represents that marketing aspect well enough. Even having a single Fire Emblem representative is enough of an advertisement. It makes interested players want to research said series of games in which they would purchase games to learn and get a feel for how the series is like. Believing that Fire Emblem is full of generic blue-haird swordfighters is a common conception people take from seeing Marth, Ike, and Sigurd is purely idiotic. How can you prove that this is a common misconception? How can you prove that this is even a negative aspect of Fire Emblem? While there are some who are turned off by blue-haird swordsmen, isn't it equally possible for certain individuals to love swordsmen and love the color blue? Describing the thought of millions of individuals doesn't make it true; That is merely your conception of the thought of the general populace of Smash players.

 

[Kirby knight]

I argue from a historic collaboration perspective, which is the reason why the SSB series exists, and Kirby Knight argues from the Marketing perspective. There's no reason why I should adopt his fashion of thought, unless he can argue on Sakurai's belief and behalf on why the Marketing perspective of Brawl is a more sensible choice than one based on historic content.

Someone who "knows his stuff" doesn't necessarily mean they argue on behalf of Sakurai's premise on Brawl. Besides, if taken from a 'Marketing' perspective, doesn't this mean that down the line a new SSBB consumer would be inclined to buy Sonic games, meaning less possible revenue for Nintendo?

1. They spend money to get right to reproduce 3rd-Party characters for Brawl. This is simple; Nintendo's going out of their way to say "Please let us use ____ character. We'll give you money..."

2. They lose potential money when the consumer purchases 3rd-Party games because of the positive influence of said characters in Brawl. For example, if I buy Metal Gear Solid 4, that is potential money lost that could've benefitted Nintendo. I support Sony and Konami, both of which don't profit Nintendo, by giving them funds for their products, which could've been spent buying a second DS and several games to support Nintendo even more.

Where's the Marketing sense in doing this? Doesn't Nintendo lose possible cash by doing this? The only sensible reason I've ever concluded to this reasoning is this -- Nintendo indeed celebrates decades of great videogame history with veteran mascots of Nintendo gaming history. Nintendo indeed acknowledges the historical importance of Sonic and wants the player to learn about the amazing mascots of Nintendo history.

I sure did learn about Pit when he was announced, before all I knew is that he had two games, both of them marketing failures, and what was given on his trophy. But most importantly, I learned that Kid Icarus and Metroid were released on the same day and ran on the same engine. If the consumer instead at the time preffered Kid Icarus over Metroid, we'd be playing Kid Icarus Prime 3: Corruption at this day. However, Metroid prevailed largely due to space-age hype in that time of year, games such as Galactaga were great, movies like E.T. were immensely popular, a new interest in the space program grew, etc.

Pit is the celebration of what could've been and he now has a slated title in production because of his appearance in Brawl. Will we have a new Ice Climbers game? Maybe. Would we have gotten some Super Punch-Out!! sequels if Little Mac had become a popular playable character? Possibly.

Marketing ignores what the fanbase wants and needs. Sakurai had a purpose in setting player-polls. He wants to please the fans and interest newcomers as well.

I don't understand why their cannot be a middling ground between a "Markerting perspective" and a "Historical collaboration perspective" Is their a reason why the two cannot coexist in your eyes?

I never said that those added into Brawl should only be based on how much revenue alone, but it's obvious that certain character additions will bring in that revenue. There is no reason at all why their cannot be a middling ground between the two.

In consideration to the Radiant Dawn advertisement -- The Fire Emblem advertisement is already there. Ike is the Lord of Radiant Dawn and sufficiently represents that marketing aspect well enough. Even having a single Fire Emblem representative is enough of an advertisement. It makes interested players want to research said series of games in which they would purchase games to learn and get a feel for how the series is like.

Sure, Fire Emblem will be advertisted but to what extent? There are those out their (from my perspective) that don't find Fire Emblem all that interesting due to how it was represented in Melee, and how it looks to be represented in Brawl with Ike. Not everyone is going to do background research, they're going to look at the character presented at them at face value. At the face they see nothing but swordfighting (regardless of how unique the fighting styles are).

When I was talking about Micaiah I was not talking about her just in a purely advertisement since. I personally think she is a unique character that could be a good addition to the FE Brawl roaster because she's is a very unique magic user that would be unlike anything else seen on the said FE roaster. I don't see anything wrong having another Fire Emblem character who is very unique help represent the series futher by having a playable apperance.

Like I said:

That's my opinion, I don't have a problem with the roaster of Marth, Ike, and Sigurd as long as they have very very very unique movesets from each other, otherwise that will only increase the "Fire Emblem only has boring sword fighters" to the general public.

-Knight

Again I will ask you why cannot their be a middle ground?

-Knight

 

[Sasha]

A very well-thought list. Dr. Kawasima and Takamaru were probably the biggest surprise on the list, and I do question the absence of Ness and Marth, but that debate has already come and gone like 6 times in this thread alone.

Well done. I'll give this list a 9/10.

EDIT: Hey, Wiseguy. You know for "Other Nintendo Characters" you have (4) next to the characters when there's only three?