Project M Social Thread

[ajajayjay]

Yeah, if he was an omelette, he wouldn't be encased in an egg, and wouldn't be having these problems. Also, his teammate Kirby could feasibly suck him up for a nice healing boost... I hope the evelopers are listening.

 

[MonkUnit]

you guys are so silly

 

[ajajayjay]

I heard that DK has a nice new dash attack... are there any videos of it?

 

[Revven]

No.

10nos

 

[OmegaMuffin]

So I brought Project M to a band concert after telling my friend about it and he was super excited, but a bunch of noobs reset the game to vBrawl while I was playing my instrument -___- and apparently Brawl is harder than Melee lol

 

[mugwhump]

Regarding missing content like Lucas' Final Smash: I think it would really help the professionalism of the project if there were no gaping holes where something used to be. It doesn't have to be as good as the original, just as long as *something* is there. Perhaps give Lucas a replacement FS that uses negligible space, like a souped-up neutral-B that gives him a quadruple power boost. Heck, even 20 seconds of invincibility is better than nothing.

Also, would you guys add a 'balanced items' hack if someone made one? I think it would be pretty cool, and it might go a long way with some of the more militant pro-item guys. Though I don't think any such hack currently exists...

Oh yeah, the no-fastfalling code isn't working for me. Is it entirely GCT-dependent? I added some things to the GCT, but I'm pretty sure I didn't delete anything.

 

[Revven]

The no C-stick fastfall code is entirely GCT dependent.

 

[MeowMixMax]

Patch when?

 

[Master WGS]

Crazy suggestion - Let's turn all true spikes into hard meteors.

Tell me how this makes the game less balanced by doing this.

Spoiler

Note: "We can't do it because it wasn't like that in Melee" is an incorrect answer.

 

[Shadic]

..What do you mean by a hard meteor?

Just a meteor that hits harder?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Yes, that's what he means.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

Crazy suggestion - Let's turn all true spikes into hard meteors.

Tell me how this makes the game less balanced by doing this.

Spoiler

Note: "We can't do it because it wasn't like that in Melee" is an incorrect answer.

Because with a bit of practice many spikes meteors that are vital to characters can be cancelled consitantly and would make them pretty useless, or at least pretty badly damaged. Some moves are just meant to send people plummeting- some moves are just meant to kill, wether it be the top boundry, bottom, or the sides.
I dont quite see why meteors should be treated any differant than something like Jiggs' rest. Same purpose, but a different angle is all.. doesnt necessarily make it better.

 

[Master WGS]

..What do you mean by a hard meteor?

Just a meteor that hits harder?

Essentially.

Like, Ganon's dair. Hits really hard. Sends you downward. Still survivable.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Before you ask us to explain how it makes the game less balanced, could you explain how it makes the game more balanced?

 

[Ghostbone]

Tried out P:M today.

Had tonnes of fun with it, it was hard to get into the melee feel at first but a few matches with Fox solved that.
Everything kinda feels a little off from melee (landing detection and DI it seems).

Also you guys have succeeded in making CF even more fun than in melee.
Kneeing people while Captain Falcon shouts HYEZ is so satisfying.
And hilarious when you hit an invincible or shielding opponent and he still says it.

One thing though is that (iirc) in melee you can only wave-dash off the stage when facing opposite the edge, but in P:M you can do it facing either direction....kinda weird to get used to

Ganon is so much fun to play as well, props to you guys for that!

 

[Master WGS]

Because the characters who have them (Falco, Marth, Ganondorf, Falcon) area already great without them. Giving characters who are already particularly strong an ADDED advantage (not to mention one as extreme as spikes) seems like overkill. They don't NEED them, and giving spikes to them makes great characters even greater, supplying plenty of gimp kills for characters who absolutely don't need them. Changing them to meteors still gives them a really heavy hit, but it's one that (with the proper tech skill) is survivable. Still hurts, but it's not the end of the stock all of a sudden.

For the record, I main Marth - this isn't an outcry as a frustrated victim of spikes, this is me realizing "This gives me an absolutely unnecessary advantage, especially with a character who's already as overwhelming as Marth."

Lest we forget - The goal here is balance with the flavor of Melee. I think spikes hinder this balance more than, say, help it.

 

[ajajayjay]

it's funny how you can't dom everyone with fox/falco top tier sexiness anymore. the balance feels nice

 

[Shadic]

We're balancing the cast towards to the top of the roster, and there's no real need to bring down some of the top characters because of it. Not to mention the best character in the game doesn't have one of these spikes that you're talking about.

Changing the KB of the spikes in order to compensate for the fact that they can't meteor would also screw up set ups and combos that use them, as well.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

If someone is getting hit by any of those spikes, they were likely going to die anyway.

Removing those spikes wouldn't be a balance changer at high level, and it wouldn't be worth the backlash from disgruntled players wondering why their spikes are gone.

 

[ajajayjay]

for wgs, i guess it would make the game more balanced, but... whether it does or not, it just doesn't feel right. idk =/ ganondorf spike should definitely NOT be taken away though.

 

[victra♥]

i tried P:M today and I am SO IMPRESSED.

I've been playing competitive melee for years and I honestly cannot tell the difference haha. Aside from a few slight things anyways

either way it was so cool playing lucas so fluidly. I love him haha. Either way P:M will probably replace melee for me <3

i kinda wish lucas had better throws which he could actually do follow ups too....and some kill moves T_T

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

I dont think spikes will matter with Project M's balance.
The (old) bad characters will keep up the pace with the high tiers, and make up for it, in other ways.
Spikes wont be as much of a concern(for them) as they were in Melee

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Because the characters who have them (Falco, Marth, Ganondorf, Falcon) area already great without them. Giving characters who are already particularly strong an ADDED advantage (not to mention one as extreme as spikes) seems like overkill. They don't NEED them, and giving spikes to them makes great characters even greater, supplying plenty of gimp kills for characters who absolutely don't need them. Changing them to meteors still gives them a really heavy hit, but it's one that (with the proper tech skill) is survivable. Still hurts, but it's not the end of the stock all of a sudden.

For the record, I main Marth - this isn't an outcry as a frustrated victim of spikes, this is me realizing "This gives me an absolutely unnecessary advantage, especially with a character who's already as overwhelming as Marth."

Lest we forget - The goal here is balance with the flavor of Melee. I think spikes hinder this balance more than, say, help it.

This is exactly what I was about to say:

If someone is getting hit by any of those spikes, they were likely going to die anyway.

Removing those spikes wouldn't be a balance changer at high level, and it wouldn't be worth the backlash from disgruntled players wondering why their spikes are gone.

The effect it would have on balance is minuscule, and not worth the back lash.

 

[ajajayjay]

@victra every smash, and forward air if your desperate. but yeah, I guess he has trouble

 

[victra♥]

obv the smashes but i honestly think the fair should be buffed a little bit

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I have no trouble KO'ing with Lucas.

Snake on the other hand... >_>

 

[leelue]

Me playing sonic.
Spindash = I'll spam if i want to.

Epic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evFnFhsbPPk

Edgeguard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-P2QTyFnEA

Proof that Spindashing is dumb good (Near the end, on the island)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkXz9YyFbCo

Good Matches

 

[DJ Xero]

Dear Shadic,

You sir, need to understand that removing specific things from the top does not necessarially constitute a real nerf. Look at what happened with Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix. Balrog's super in ST did 80% health. Now, why was this removed? Because it was dumb. Not because it made him worse (although it did to a degree). What you have to ask yourself is "Am I willing to give characters a spike over a hard meteor, who didn't have one in Melee/Brawl?" Or are you doing this because "It was in Melee"? Because what I'm seeing is someone not wanting to touch something they like, about characters they like. I mean, look at your demo thus far. Do you really think that Zelda's changes have made her as much a powerhouse as Fox/Falco/Snake? Do you think that Game and Watch can dominate as heavily as the top? What I'm seeing is a vague attempt to make a new Melee, that doesn't really add to the rest of the cast, and instead you are just sticking to what you know. If they have their Melee true spikes, what changes your opinion on Zelda/Game and Watch are equal to Falco's pressure/combo/gimpkill potential? Because I can tell you right now, G&W is bad. He's still got the problems he had in Melee. In Brawl it was mostly acceptable, because his moves were average, but did decent damage. Now, he can't even kill, because his Nair and smashes, along with his tilts are simply too slow.

Basically what I'm saying is that if you're balancing to the top, you're doing a piss poor job. If you're trying to say that keeping in True Spikes (something that is incredibly unnecessary in the first place in) because Melee had it, well, you'd seem more legit, but simply stupid, and if you say that the characters that have the true spikes NEED them, you don't understand how to balance a game.

My two cents? Get rid of Spikes, or get rid of meteors. And since Melee added in Meteors because of the stupid crap in 64, it seems like the spikes were unintentional in the first place.

Also, Falco's D-Air Spike was removed from the PAL version of Melee, and people saying Fox doesn't have a spike might as well have the fluid drained out of their head, because the Melee shine spike is way deadlier than any of the other character's true spikes.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It's their project, get over it.

 

[Sterowent]

approaching a character with a spike makes an effect on players different than when approaching characters with a meteor. this is more and more true as the characters near ledges.

spikes have their place in this game. it's basically a superior meteor, and if these characters are given a better tool than others that's how they are. changing them into meteors means they will be required to be buffed elsewhere. how do you go about buffing a roughly decade old moveset, with an established audience, on a character known for this particular move? same question for marth.

 

[Ghostbone]

Falco does have a spike in PAL....
It's Marth who lost it.

 

[leelue]

Probably shouldn't have put up my videos mid-argument, heh

 

[Master WGS]

It's their project, get over it.

They are asking for input...

People are allowed to have contrary opinions, though they could, perhaps, more politely state them..

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Opinions are fine, so is healthy discussion.

Demanding that they change something is a different topic, however.

 

[leelue]

Do normal texture hacks still work in the demo? Like, If i wanted a new pictochat, would it mess with everything?

 

[DSP]

I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but are there ANY chances for a PAL release? I don't really want to import an NTSC Brawl disc just for this. Is anyone remotely working on it?

 

[iLink]

Do normal texture hacks still work in the demo? Like, If i wanted a new pictochat, would it mess with everything?

You would have to swap the texture over to the pac included in the demo via brawlbox because it is modified.

 

[leelue]

do i have to use brawlbox (not do it manually?)
aw..

 

[Yamitsuki]

Also, was marth's counter supposed to have increased knockback?

Do normal texture hacks still work in the demo? Like, If i wanted a new pictochat, would it mess with everything?

You would have to swap the texture over to the pac included in the demo via brawlbox because it is modified.

do i have to use brawlbox (not do it manually?)
aw..

Brawlbox is really easy to use. Unless you use a mac.

 

[Master WGS]

Alright, brass tacks here, as a common response to most of my questions tends to be "They'll lose x-combo if we change this," or something along those lines. Rarely is it a "This balances the gameplay because of x," which would be the preferred type of response. If changing something I think is going to break the game means it gets rid of someone's combo, I think that's a sacrifice worth making. I know, I could be entirely wrong on why it's imbalanced, but that's not what you're addressing with your responses. So I ask -

Having a balanced game < Having a Melee-like game, right? We'll forgo making a more balanced game in favor of making a more Melee-esque (i.e., top-tiers operate exactly [or as close as possible] the same way as they did, even if it's broken in some way) game?

Note: I'm not saying this is the wrong thing to do - It's your project, and I'm still having fun with it regardless. I just want to know which is actually more important to you guys, as that will fill in any gaps I think are present in your balancing methods... I know you've clearly stated you're balancing to the top, but if something's breaking the game, wouldn't it make more sense to just fix that, rather than break everything else to fit in with it?