Project M Social Thread

[A2ZOMG]

The people who say it doesn't feel like melee, i honestly believe they haven't held in whatever button they wavedash with in when they plug in thier controller, so light touch doesn't cause an airdidge. I also thought that it was clunky, or weird feeling until I did that. Once i did, i kid you not it literally feels almost identical. Mario especially.

If LD gets fixed, no doubt in my mind you guys will make this perfect.

Also this game is superior to melee for 1 reason only............you can use the c-stick in training

Angled F-smash with Control stick is more pleasing to me.

Balancewise the game is also superior to Melee. Just I think Link and Ganon aren't very good compared to the rest of the cast. And Zelda probably suffers from some extremely bad matchups against characters who just walk over her nonexistent defenses (Sheik I feel is pretty obviously bad for Zelda), even if her tools are no longer useless.

Though the site is down, I'm still going to criticize the devs for saying things like Zelda's strong point is defense. She has no defensive game lol. Her tools are best designed to lock down and destroy other defenses. If you rush Zelda down well, she's ****ed. Now she DOES take hits like a champ with some of the best survivability in the game (though her recovery is rather punishable). But her actual defensive game is crap.

 

[Vigilante]

Din's Fire can be used against slower chars, Nayru's love is a great counter And jump out of Din's fire can set up nice traps. She is pretty defensive and less offensive. She is hard to get good at, but she is good at defense.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Zelda is really bad at forcing bad approaches. And her shieldgrab is *** not to mention her OOS game in general. She has no defensive game.

Din's Fire is better used for actually approaching than it is for playing defensive games.

 

[ajajayjay]

usually people just shield the din's fire; boom, grab. and zelda's grab game is pretty good.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Eh, Zelda's grab game is okay. D-throw is a little too easy to DI, not sure what to think about U-throw except for maybe putting fastfallers above you, though her B-throw seems pretty legit for kills. But yeah, Din's Fire is great if you're using it to pressure people into getting grabbed for free.

 

[ajajayjay]

if zelda proves to truly be worse than the rest of the cast, which i kinda doubt, i think it'd be nice if each "pulse" of her dins fire, the three or so pulses that precede the big explosion, all give a tiny bit of damage and knockback, more like an interruptor.

Like if each little pulse was like a falco laser. i think that would really promote the defensive game the developers say they're looking for in zelda.

 

[CORY]

i've always felt that if it was one pulse shorter din's fire would be worlds more menacing.

 

[Xebenkeck]

Did they fix zeldas grab from like the obscene 12 frames or whatever it was? I assume they did as it seems faster.

 

[CTL17]

****ing PK Shine

That thing is pretty awesome. Also shuts down stupid Falcos.

 

[ajajayjay]

I hope ness's shine is similar to lucas's. Or that it at least causes some form of damage.

 

[Xebenkeck]

Heres an idea make ness' actually heal more than lucas', like Lucas' is a multipurpose tool, it good for offence, defence, recovery, healing, lucas's is disjointed. Ness' is a purly defensive move, yet lucas's heals more damage, like WTF?????

Sakurai logic right there. "No here is a better idea, we will give Ness' a little bit of wind, that way he can never be punished for healing right?"

 

[Grim Tuesday]

In Brawl this remains true, however he must of been feeling sick or something when making Melee, because there Kirby sucks.

He wasn't wearing his glasses at the time and accidentally buffed Jigglypuff instead.

 

[Xinc]

Eh, Zelda's grab game is okay. D-throw is a little too easy to DI, not sure what to think about U-throw except for maybe putting fastfallers above you, though her B-throw seems pretty legit for kills. But yeah, Din's Fire is great if you're using it to pressure people into getting grabbed for free.

Think of it this way. Zelda's sty;e relies on a great defense, whereas shiek's relies on a good offense... if I may say that. They can be two sides of a coin if you want to make it; either side making up for the other. Think Two-Face, but not evil.

EDIT: Was responding to the post where you said Zelda's just defense and something like that...

Zelda's grab game is fair, I agree though.

 

[A2ZOMG]

if zelda proves to truly be worse than the rest of the cast, which i kinda doubt, i think it'd be nice if each "pulse" of her dins fire, the three or so pulses that precede the big explosion, all give a tiny bit of damage and knockback, more like an interruptor.

Like if each little pulse was like a falco laser. i think that would really promote the defensive game the developers say they're looking for in zelda.

I think Zelda could be good, except she obviously sucks a LOT in some matchups. Sheik happens to be one of them...which is lame. And I'm feeling doubtful that Sheik dittos got less gay.

I think if she could act a little faster out of grounded Din's Fire, and if she had a normal shieldgrab (really, it sucks a LOT to have a 12 frame shieldgrab), she'd probably be set.

Or perhaps something silly like her forward and back roll being a teleport. Either way defense is not her strong point. It's actually the area where she is weakest.

Link and Ganon on the other hand I feel are just generally below average compared to everyone else. Both of them I feel can't really do much against Fox.

Think of it this way. Zelda's sty;e relies on a great defense, whereas shiek's relies on a good offense... if I may say that. They can be two sides of a coin if you want to make it; either side making up for the other. Think Two-Face, but not evil.

EDIT: Was responding to the post where you said Zelda's just defense and something like that...

Zelda's grab game is fair, I agree though.

Zelda's defensive game doesn't exist. She's actually far far far better at offense than defense.

Sheik on the other hand actually has a good defensive game, but she also has respectable offense as well. I think she crushes Zelda because she can punish anything Zelda can commit to by camping, and should she want to rush Zelda down, Zelda lacks the tools to stop it. Sheik's combo game on Zelda is also quite good, and she seems to have a fairly easy time killing Zelda, at least compared to the rest of the cast from what I can see.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Link and Ganon on the other hand I feel are just generally below average compared to everyone else. Both of them I feel can't really do much against Fox.

Get outta here, Ganondorf is one of the best characters in the demo after Fox/Falco/Shelda and Sheik.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Get outta here, Ganondorf is one of the best characters in the demo after Fox/Falco/Shelda and Sheik.

That's an awful lot of characters to not be better than. And I'm pretty certain he's worse than just not being as good as them.

I don't like Ganon in this game. His F-tilt animation nerfs the range it originally had in Melee. His B-air hits too high, though wavelanding after it is kinda okay. U-air cannot be used as a safe spacer anymore. His WD isn't as good, and his rolls aren't godly, so it's harder for him to get out of pressure. Also landing detection is bad for his D-air. He has a marginally better recovery. All in all I think his hitboxes are too awkward for him to be as good as he used to be.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Doesn't his f-tilt have the exact same range considering they ported over his stats from melee?

 

[Xinc]

That's an awful lot of characters to not be better than. And I'm pretty certain he's worse than just not being as good as them.

I don't like Ganon in this game. His F-tilt animation nerfs the range it originally had in Melee. His B-air hits too high, though wavelanding after it is kinda okay. U-air cannot be used as a safe spacer anymore. His WD isn't as good, and his rolls aren't godly, so it's harder for him to get out of pressure. Also landing detection is bad for his D-air. He has a marginally better recovery. All in all I think his hitboxes are too awkward for him to be as good as he used to be.

Even if it IS shorter, it sure got buffed.

LD isn't fixed. You can't do anything about it yet.

Don't forget, each character has goods and bads. Look on his good sides.

Doesn't his f-tilt have the exact same range considering they ported over his stats from melee?

More or less, I think.

 

[A2ZOMG]

They didn't change the animation back to what it originally was. They just added some Up angled and Down angled stuff, but they kept the Brawl animation, which is doesn't reach as far as the Melee one.

 

[ajajayjay]

zelda reminds me of ganon sometimes. really powerful moves, solid combo game, good grabs though difficult to get sometimes... but if i'm a better player than my opponent, there's no one I'd rather them play than zelda or ganon. idk, they seem to stand a pretty poor chance against a better player =).

O, and they both get torn up by falco and sheik

 

[Xinc]

They didn't change the animation back to what it originally was. They just added some Up angled and Down angled stuff, but they kept the Brawl animation, which is doesn't reach as far as the Melee one.

I'd like to think that the power got boosted, so it pretty much evens up... lolz @ Sakurai logic. But for Ganon, I guess that would add onto his character. Hit or miss...?

Zzz...

 

[Strong Badam]

yes, it's stronger and is a legit kill move. it's also faster iirc.

 

[A2ZOMG]

They did slightly buff F-tilt damage/knockback. But I'm just saying, the range isn't as good, so it's not as good for poking or stuffing approaches.

The way I see it, what made Melee Ganon was how amazingly convenient his hitboxes were. He had some of the best hitboxes in the game, and the changes to Project M have really not been good for what made Melee Ganon work.

imo G&W does Melee Ganon's playstyle better in Project M than Ganon.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

His new Side-B easily makes up for any small things he lost from Melee.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Well it doesn't seem like a big deal to me, if there is a reduction in length, then it must not be that extreme.


EDIT: I completely agree with you grim.

 

[ajajayjay]

@ grim tuesday I was just gonna say that. ganon players have to be inherently good at tech-reading, and the side b is just another tech-read. It also provides ganon surprising speed, like his wiz foot from melee, which is also way better with its longer hitbox

 

[A2ZOMG]

His new Side-B easily makes up for any small things he lost from Melee.

I disagree. Yes B-reversing is helpful here and there, and it's okay that Ganon can techchase the entire cast, but it doesn't help him much against Fox, Falco, and Sheik, and it's still mostly minor in other matchups. It does give him a slightly better recovery. Also it's kinda lame that SideB is no longer as good of an option for techchasing after D-throw, though I guess you have Wizkick.

I think G&W is a better character than Ganon though. He just does a lot of the same things and does it more safely because he has more mobility, suffers less from landing detection, and due to how AMAZING his D-tilt is. Being able to L-cancel his B-air is also borderline ridiculous as well, and being able to attack and airdodge after his Up-B is really really good.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Ganon's Side B is better at tech-chasing than Sheik's down throw :/

 

[A2ZOMG]

Prove it. Ideally with frame data.

 

[ajajayjay]

yeah, like his wiz foot, it covers both options, tech in place, and tech away... then they think they've outsmarted you and they tech behind, and boom, down air, done.

btw, what does flame choke do against someone lying on the ground? same thing? i don't have my wii to check

 

[A2ZOMG]

Not teching is an option. And you cannot grab someone who has not teched.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

In which case you wait them out or hit them?

 

[A2ZOMG]

See, the reason I liked Ganon's SideB in Melee was because it was the most rewarding option for covering THREE OUT OF FOUR OPTIONS.

When you D-throw a fastfaller, and you SideB, it will hit them if they tech in place, do not tech, and techroll away. It does 17% and at lower percents leads to a free aerial.

Ganon's Flame Choke...can't do that. And given that it's no longer untechable like it was in Brawl, it no longer sets up guaranteed combos either like it did before...so...bleh.

 

[GP&B]

Wait them out, CC the getup attack, or react well to their next roll direction with Flame Choke, Wizard Kick, or a grab.

Was just throwing out other options.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Also, I can't find frame data for Flame Choke.

 

[A2ZOMG]

That requires you to read them. Flame Choking from what I can tell is still by far weaker than D-throwing a fastfaller, where you barely have to read them at all to cover most of their options.

How this makes Ganon better than he was in Melee, ESPECIALLY when his hitboxes are significantly worse overall from the transition just does not register with me. Like...the one thing about him that matters that actually is a bit better is his recovery. Besides that...everything else just isn't as good. Yes he can play okizeme games with floaties now, but those usually weren't his hardest matchups as I recall.

 

[GP&B]

Well, after reading this, I'm interested in what Kage has to say about Ganon:M then.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah speaking of SideBs...Falcon's SideB is SO MUCH BETTER in Project M. I wonder who has realized it.

I'm not talking strictly about recovery by the way.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

I recall them saying several times that they ripped data straight from melee, so I'd assume that would apply to ganon's hitboxes.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Not everything has been ripped. It's definitely apparent his Up Smash is different, unless the animation is throwing me off...?