Project M Social Thread

[Sneak8288]

I suspect the issue of the shine hitstun being removed (when electric) is technically some sort of weird property hardcoded into falco's action 115 (down B). I suspect I will need to overwrite his final smash action so that when downB is triggered, it exits that action (and therefore the hardcoded module) and then the normal routine is run. However, that would probably corrupt the replay since the commands won't be identical anymore. Keep in mind, this is all theorycraft

Lol shadow shine or not the vids were still pretty good. I was kinda looking forward to it lol.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Probably a dumb question, but does advantage on block exist at all in Project:M?

Yes, shieldstun exists <_<.

However, it probably doesn't mimic melee shieldstun exactly (since ATTACKS still don't mimic melee exactly <_<)


Also, very few things gave you advantage on block in melee anyway. I can't think of anything other than Peach's float cancel fair and Peach's d-smash and MAYBE Ganon's fair. Melee just had a lot of very small disadvantages (-2, -3, ect.) so if you did an action just a littler faster than your opponent, you'd be able to cover their OoS options. For example, if you had a -5 advantage on block and you have a 1 frame jab (or shine), then you can always jab (or shine) them before they're able to grab you (most grabs are 7 frames).

However, if the opponent had say, a 1 frame up B, then they'd always be able to hit you before you can move (1 frame for jump + 1 frame for up B.) Or, let's say they have an invincible up B, like....Bowser. His up B would take 6 frames to come out (1 frame for jump+5 frame startup), so you'd still technically be able to shine before he he's able to attack. The problem is...he'd be invincible when your attack hits so it wouldn't matter. However, if you were to instead SHIELD you would certainly have enough time to block his attack.


Sounds just like baiting a DP doesn't it?

 

[shanus]

we'll discuss posting shadow shine in tonights irc meeting

 

[Turbo Ether]

Yes, shieldstun exists <_<.

However, it probably doesn't mimic melee shieldstun exactly (since ATTACKS still don't mimic melee exactly <_<)


Also, very few things gave you advantage on block in melee anyway. I can't think of anything other than Peach's float cancel fair and Peach's d-smash and MAYBE Ganon's fair. Melee just had a lot of very small disadvantages (-2, -3, ect.) so if you did an action just a littler faster than your opponent, you'd be able to cover their OoS options. For example, if you had a -5 advantage on block and you have a 1 frame jab (or shine), then you can always jab (or shine) them before they're able to grab you (most grabs are 7 frames).

Thank you, excellent response! Apparently Melee had frame data that actually resembled a fighting game, lol.

 

[Dan_X]

we'll discuss posting shadow shine in tonights irc meeting

Wait. there's a meeting? LoL. what time? I'm out of work at 10:30pm. I'll jump on anyway to see what's going on...

 

[Sneak8288]

Oh yea I just remembered when we had that whole buffer discussion... I advise its left at 0. Anything higher I found myself side b'in off the side of the stage multiple times to the point where it was frustrating. I also tried playing without tap jumping. It felt horrible. I feel like it was not made for spacies at all

 

[GPDP]

Oh yea I just remembered when we had that whole buffer discussion... I advise its left at 0. Anything higher I found myself side b'in off the side of the stage multiple times to the point where it was frustrating. I also tried playing without tap jumping. It felt horrible. I feel like it was not made for spacies at all

I personally will play at 0 for most characters (other than perhaps Marth, who I'll play at 1 or 2). Nevertheless, I think the buffer option should stay. I see no reason to take it out. More customization won't hurt.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

wtf

I was actually a decent Mewtwo back in my day.

 

[JCaesar]

Ahaha Starturds

I suspect the issue of the shine hitstun being removed (when electric) is technically some sort of weird property hardcoded into falco's action 115 (down B). I suspect I will need to overwrite his final smash action so that when downB is triggered, it exits that action (and therefore the hardcoded module) and then the normal routine is run. However, that would probably corrupt the replay since the commands won't be identical anymore. Keep in mind, this is all theorycraft

I already deleted the replays so that's not an issue

If you remember, Falco's shine and bthrow and Ganon's up-B and maybe a few other electric moves (but not all, oddly enough) had this problem in B+, but we fixed it somehow. Can't we just do the same thing to Falco's new shine?

Oh yea I just remembered when we had that whole buffer discussion... I advise its left at 0. Anything higher I found myself side b'in off the side of the stage multiple times to the point where it was frustrating. I also tried playing without tap jumping. It felt horrible. I feel like it was not made for spacies at all

If you prefer to play with no buffer and tap jump on, go for it. But there's no reason to remove the option.

 

['V']

So is this released yet? I can't wait to try it out.

 

[Anth0ny]

Just watched the vids. All I gotta say is... LOOKIN GOOD, BOYS.

I never thought I'd see Brawl moving like that. Awesome stuff.

 

[WiyamMang]

So is this released yet? I can't wait to try it out.

Ah. The question that's on every viewer's mind and the question the modders are tired of reading.

No. D=

 

[Sneak8288]

If you prefer to play with no buffer and tap jump on, go for it. But there's no reason to remove the option.

Nah I wasn't saying remove it, I was just advising spacies players n saying how it in no way made the characters easier 2 play

 

[skrach8]

Dark sonic is an excellent addittion to the team for that very reason, he gives you the answers you want and need. Keep him close, he will be P:M's best technical friend.

 

[Plum]

Buffer either kills or helps a character.
I find that I need to have my buffer on 3 playing sluggish characters like Snake and Bowser. Their initial jump animation is like 7 frames (iirc?) so the slight buffer makes wavedashing and stuff feel as smooth as spacies with their much faster jumps. With Snake it's literally jump, wait what feels like a horridly long tenth of a second, then airdodge just because it takes them so **** long to get off the ground.

On fast characters or really just somebody who requires more technical input then you're more likely to **** up inputs because of buffer if anything.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Nah I wasn't saying remove it, I was just advising spacies players n saying how it in no way made the characters easier 2 play

Buffering makes Wolf easier to play. Auto-cancelling SH Fair without buffering is pretty difficult. That's in vBrawl and B+, though.

 

[kaizo13]

Wait JC, did you say you....deleted Sneaks Falco footage?? *tears up

 

[Revven]

He recorded them before deleting them.

 

[Sneak8288]

Well there is a chance that in about a week or 2 I might be having a stream of my own featuring me and other technical and experienced melee players... so be on the look out ^_^

 

[Revven]

That'd be so hot Sneak, I look forward to it.

 

[crazycrackers]

I really don't think the community cares about the dark shine effect much if at all. But I guess if we want to show the game in its best form....

 

[Shell]

I just polished up Falco's melee physics and shanus will be polishing up the shine and SHL. Expect to see Falco in top form very soon.

 

[GPDP]

I just polished up Falco's melee physics and shanus will be polishing up the shine and SHL. Expect to see Falco in top form very soon.

Glad to hear it. Does this mean Falco will be Melee perfect? Will he be the first?

 

[theunabletable]

This is probably a very stupid question that's been asked already (I searched and couldn't find anything, though ), but will Falco's laser will be red?

 

[camelot]

Why in the world would we make it red?

 

[GPDP]

Why in the world would we make it red?

Because that's how it was in Melee, therefore it's obviously superior and should be done.

 

[Sora-kun]

Idk i got this random idea.. it might be nothing but like you know when falcon uses falcon kick and hits a wall? he jumps up or w/e. could you give zairs that property? like when they hit a wall it makes you jump up like with the falcon kick? not exactly as high idk.

it'd be a psuedo zair-grabbing-walls thing =/ only you can't hang. but oh well right?
or not.. i know nothing of codes =/ it probably wouldn't work.. just an idea i had..

 

[ValTroX]

lol I don't think changing the laser color is necessary.

 

[kaizo13]

red laserz ftw! ^^

 

[theunabletable]

Imo the red lasers just look cooler lol. And, I mean, that is how they are in Melee. I mean I haven't actually seen the Falco yet, but with blue lasers I imagine he wouldn't feel enough like Melee.

It's incredibly nitpicky, and doesn't matter much. Was just wonderin' if you guys were planning (at some point in development, I mean) on changing the lasers to red

 

[JCaesar]

Thunderhorse said he will quit P:M forever if we make Falco's lasers red

Glad to hear it. Does this mean Falco will be Melee perfect? Will he be the first?

Mario was the first with perfect Melee physics. Falco will be a close second. Shell is doing a spectacular job with this stuff. I just hope it isn't being thrown off at all by the landing detection.

 

[Sneak8288]

Landing detection is more of a universal throw off to me instead of character specifics.. I usually waveland platforms by watching the shins so I suked at it with p:m with every single char lol

 

[DarkDragoon]

Landing detection is more of a universal throw off to me instead of character specifics.. I usually waveland platforms by watching the shins so I suked at it with p:m with every single char lol

What throws me off is the fact that as they get closer to melee physics, the timing gets more similar, but it will always be off until detection is fixed.

-DD

 

[Rikana]

Make the lasers purple so we get the best of both world. 50-50 red/blue.

Does Falco still have the funny animation where if you shine too soon out of jump it just falls right back to the ground (trying to do shine bAirs in air)?

 

[Sneak8288]

Nah shine bair worked fine.. even out of shield

 

[Thunderhorse+]

Imo the red lasers just look cooler lol. And, I mean, that is how they are in Melee. I mean I haven't actually seen the Falco yet, but with blue lasers I imagine he wouldn't feel enough like Melee.

It's incredibly nitpicky, and doesn't matter much. Was just wonderin' if you guys were planning (at some point in development, I mean) on changing the lasers to red

+ other red laser talk

AUGHRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH​

See Guy?! You told me not to worry! You told me no one was going to change the laser color! Then this **** happens! And the Melee Fair came back before it! This is what I was worried about! People really care about this color ****! Suck a **** Guy! Suck a ****ing ****!!!!!!

...

*ahem* Pardon my comical outburst. It just had to be said because ThatGuy/Dandy/Bobo/whatever needs to be told. Anyway, the color doesn't need to change, and I sincerely hope the developers aren't so petty as to worry about laser colors (then again they were petty enough to make whole new animations for Falco's utilt/fsmash when Fox's animations got the job done, so I can't put anything past them -_-).

This is actually one of my ongoing concerns with the project: needlessly re-cloning everything to make it 100% exactly like Melee. I understand that this is Project Melee, and I completely endorse any and all changes that are meant to emulate Melee gameplay-wise and cannot jury rig the Brawl animation to make it so (Fox's Brawl bair can never make a believable sex kick, Falco's utilt can never hit once behind him when the animation hits twice behind him ect).

Believe it or not, alot of Brawl animations aren't as horrible as you guys think (in fact, I much prefer many if not all of the Brawl animations to Melee animations despite the Melee gameplay being 100x better than Brawl's), and actually most of them, if they were changed significantly, give the character more personality. Falco's whirlwind slashes don't look pragmatic in real combat or look particularly hard hitting, but they're needlessly flashy, graceful, and showoff-ish, matching Falco's personality in the games. By contrast, Fox's moves seem like moves that a professional trained mercenary might perform...if he was in a video game of course, matching his more serious personality (except for the spin kick...that looks more like something Falco would do, but hey, why not give Falco the spin kick fsmash and give Fox the Melee roundhouse!?). And of course, when you think about it, Ganon can never run like Captain Falcon with all that bulky armor on. While awesome, it looks more ill-fitting than the Old Manonjog.

I guess all I'm trying to say is that while we are trying to make Melee, this is supposed to be Melee 2.0, not Melee 1.0. If it doesn't directly benefit the character's Melee game or is a purely aesthetic change that will not change how the move functions at all (I'm looking at you red lasers), it's probably a waste of time if not a regression (since most times it will involve needlessly re-cloning a character).

Spoiler

If you guys really have a hardon for changing colors though, I suggest you start by turning Falco's firebird blue.

 

[Alphatron]

^B-but Melee is the master race! D:



Seriously though, I agree with pretty much everything you said. If aesthetic changes should be argued over, it should be for melee sound effects(Bowser UpB) or voices(Fox) before laser color. >_>

 

[Sneak8288]

The colors don't need 2 change... blue lasers still feel like melee.... any1 who says otherwise is spewing nonsense lol. Y even waste the time on something so little as laser color. As long as it works the same its fine

 

[Dantarion]

I'm glad to see you guys have everything under control without me.

 

[DarkDragoon]

I'm glad to see you guys have everything under control without me.

Its a ruse! A guise! A veil!

Come bbaaaccckkkk T_____________T;
-DD