JCaesar
Smash Hero
I doubt very much that it's possible to edit Link's bomb like that. It's hard enough to edit articles like bombs at all.
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Project M Social Thread
- Thread starter Project M
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I R MarF
Smash Ace
Well.... darn.
@Strong Bad
Well it seems I made a typo. Come to think of it I think i made that typo many times... all well, no one is counting.
We both downloaded Project M. It was his computer, so I didn't want to screw anything up.
The Brawl disc was the problem, not us downloading the code incorrectly.
Even when me and Sauc3 were playing Brawl, the game kept freezing, even before we started playing Project M.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,545
you should go buy brawl again... or use some sort of alternative method to play it.... of course, this would have to be a legal method.... yup.
so =/ doesn't mean they shouldn't give him his awesome hook shot back
if link's recovery turns out bad it'll just force link players to try harder to not get hit offstage anyway.
and bad recovery justified godly onstage game =3
i'd rather have bad recovery and be a monster fighter than good recovery and be mediocre one.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,545
yeah too bad the best chars are monster fighters with great recovery
*cough*jigglypuff*cough*metaknight*cough*
*cough*jigglypuff*cough*metaknight*cough*
ThatGuyYouMightKnow
Smash Champion
No.
10nos
10nos
I R MarF
Smash Ace
Yeah, I agree with you completely, he should get his range back.
Also, you know how Link can zair at the end of an air dodge? What if the direction of his air dodge influence the direction of his hookshot? Air dodge up, veritcal hookshot, air dodge diagnol up, diagnol hookshot, air dodge side, regular hook shot.
Idk how difficult it would be to animate/program but it would help make up for the absense of wall tethers.
Akuma2120
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2008
- Messages
- 826
I agree with this for Link completely, I still think wall grappling would be cool though
pwned-by-the-poob
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2008
- Messages
- 96
I hope that you guys know link can already do the bomb jump he had in melee... I'm kinda confused why you guys are thinking of a new way for him to recover
Also Falco's recovery is WAY worse than link's. And that hasn't become a huge issue. So i guess making link really good on stage would balance that out.(just like with falco) however i still don't think link has that bad recovery...
Also Falco's recovery is WAY worse than link's. And that hasn't become a huge issue. So i guess making link really good on stage would balance that out.(just like with falco) however i still don't think link has that bad recovery...
D
Deleted member
Guest
Falco's recovery is not worse than Link's, and it is in fact better. It is an exaggeration that people like to perpetuate. Falco's recovery is as good as the player using Falco. Good day.
ValTroX
Smash Ace
To be honest, Falco's upB in B+ is horrible, i think they should shorten his sideB and buff his upB, but that's just my opinion. I haven't seen much falco footage since the video on smashmods, I missed most of the streams and the ones i've watched, I've had to do some other stuff. But we can all just speculate, and let the guys work, 'cause they know what they are doing 
ValTroX
Smash Ace
that's great news Kaizo, but I'm a believer that his sideb should be shorter than his b+ counterpart, way too good in there
side b shorter?? no
uhh..i'm pretty sure it is about the same length as his melee counter part.
I think it seems long to you because of Brawl+'s tiny stages. (and maybe the Brawl camera)
trust me with melee sized stages and melee physics, u are gonna be thankful for that side b
EDIT:
ok after a side by side comparison, it seems Sakurai flipped the moves around. in brawl, side b keeps momentum, where in melee it pretty much falls straight down. And it's the opposite for up b. it Keeps momentum in Melee and falls straight down in Brawl.
silly Sakurai
but yes i think we should revert it back to it's Melee form. Falco needs the momentum on his up b far more than he does on his side b. I wonder what made Sakurai switch them?
uhh..i'm pretty sure it is about the same length as his melee counter part.
I think it seems long to you because of Brawl+'s tiny stages. (and maybe the Brawl camera)
trust me with melee sized stages and melee physics, u are gonna be thankful for that side b
EDIT:
ok after a side by side comparison, it seems Sakurai flipped the moves around. in brawl, side b keeps momentum, where in melee it pretty much falls straight down. And it's the opposite for up b. it Keeps momentum in Melee and falls straight down in Brawl.
silly Sakurai
but yes i think we should revert it back to it's Melee form. Falco needs the momentum on his up b far more than he does on his side b. I wonder what made Sakurai switch them?
Sneak8288
Smash Champion
What do you guys think of the shortened sideb? Should it keep momentum like vbrawl or cut all momentum and fall short like melee? I'm for the melee way but some people have mixed feeling. Discuss
For a character that wasn't amazing in Melee, I'd be in favor of keeping the better one. However, buffing Melee Falco seems like a bad idea.
I'd go with the Melee version if I had any say in the matter.
I'd go with the Melee version if I had any say in the matter.
Sneak8288
Smash Champion
I wouldn't say it was better.. it has different uses is all. You saying "the better one" is nothing more than a point of view because I'm sure a lot of melee falco players can give you reasons why they feel it isn't better.
i say, have it fall straight down. After watching falco's side b again in Brawl (i rarely play Brawl) it does appear to be a bit too long with the momentum. it was fine in Melee, i don't recall anybody complaining it was too short in melee.
unlike his up b in brawl, which everybody complains about
i also like the idea of nerfing recoveries that are too easy/good (Most Brawl recoveries need to be meleefied) . Because i always liked having to work to get back onstage. It makes edge guarding 10x's more fun/exciting
unlike his up b in brawl, which everybody complains about
i also like the idea of nerfing recoveries that are too easy/good (Most Brawl recoveries need to be meleefied) . Because i always liked having to work to get back onstage. It makes edge guarding 10x's more fun/exciting
ValTroX
Smash Ace
i dont really care if they nerf Brawls sideb, I just said it because i think it would be fair to nerf it if we are buffin' his upb
Dan_X
Smash Lord
For the record... Falco's side+B has already been nerfed in PM. That is-- its length has been shortened. It's a fairly noticeable nerf, he simply won't be able to recover as easily horizontally as he was previously capable of. If he's too far out he'll fall short of the ledge.
I don't think it's in our best interest to nerf it much more.
His up+B however definitely needs some work, it's pretty bad IMO.
I don't think it's in our best interest to nerf it much more.
His up+B however definitely needs some work, it's pretty bad IMO.
JCaesar
Smash Hero
I think there's some confusion here. Falco:M's side-B works just like Melee Falco's if you let it go the full distance. The distance is the same. It gets extra horizontal momentum only if you cancel it early (which I have to say I really like, since it gives him a skillful option to get more distance if he recovers from high up).
What I think needs to be nerfed with Falco's side-B is the priority. It cuts through a lot of things like butter which it couldn't in Melee. And there's that Instant Aerial Phantasm thing... man that pisses me off... so Brawly.
What I think needs to be nerfed with Falco's side-B is the priority. It cuts through a lot of things like butter which it couldn't in Melee. And there's that Instant Aerial Phantasm thing... man that pisses me off... so Brawly.
isnt the fix to iap as simple as increasing landing lag on his side b?
ValTroX
Smash Ace
@Orca
I did not know it was already nerfed, thanks for the info
@JC
yeah I've notices that, sometimes you try yo hit him with something and you end up getting hit with his phantasm
I did not know it was already nerfed, thanks for the info
@JC
yeah I've notices that, sometimes you try yo hit him with something and you end up getting hit with his phantasm
IIRC the hitbox in Melee is further back, like almost behind Falco.
Tried to find a picture of it but failed
Anywho, I do know that Falco's Brawl Side B has higher priority because the hitbox is moved up towards Falco's body, so that would need to be changed.
Alphatron
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2008
- Messages
- 2,269
Question from someone who actually gets hit by Peach dsmashes because he sucks at melee, what are your current plans for heavy characters such as Bowser and the like? The heavy and slow seldom seems to get any attention. They are easily comboed and do not set up large flashy combos in return. They aren't really popular because of this.
I'm not going to ask for Bowser to be made into the speed combo demon that he isn't? I would simply like to know what the current plans for him now are. I was told a while back that his UpB had higher priority in melee. And I know a little bit about the side B.
I'm not going to ask for Bowser to be made into the speed combo demon that he isn't? I would simply like to know what the current plans for him now are. I was told a while back that his UpB had higher priority in melee. And I know a little bit about the side B.
Dan_X
Smash Lord
I'd be fine with Falco's phantasm having less priority (moving the hitbox back). It should be more easily countered with proper timing.
Still Up+B doesn't seem nearly as useful as Melee's version.
Still Up+B doesn't seem nearly as useful as Melee's version.
Ulevo
Smash Master
While I don't necessarily feel Falco's Phantasm priority was ever a concern, just from watching the live streams played with Falco: M and experiencing it in Brawl tourneys, the Instant Aerial Phantasm (IAP) is a problem. There's too little cool down on the landing lag, and it basically allows Falco to run away on whim with no answer to it. Melee Falco could not do this because if he Phantasm'd without at least hitting the opponent, he was punished hard core. You can't do that in Brawl.
JCaesar
Smash Hero
Ulevo, that's basically the problem I have with it. The priority only compounds the problem, since even if you predict it and throw out an attack to counter it, half the time he just zips through you anyway.
jalued
Smash Lord
completely agree. Falco has lasers to control his spacing. He has no need and should have never been given a low lag phantasm that allows him to run away.
Sneak8288
Smash Champion
My problem with the shortened brawl side b is the melee mix ups are no longer there. Being able to shorten ur distance and go straight to the ledge instead of going actually on stage helped alot vs characters like shiek etc. It just completely changes the usage.
XkaruX
Smash Apprentice
I agree, Phantasm needs more landing lag.
jalued
Smash Lord
is it not more that the timing is differant, and that they were stupid and in giving sideB momentum, it made cancelling it less useful?
Sneak8288
Smash Champion
I wouldn't say it made it less useful because its still useful to others. I just think the usage is different. There are so many edge guards that u could avoid in melee by shortening your side b when it stopped momentum. Now the usage is totally different
jalued
Smash Lord
its more just that since cancelling it doesnt cancel your momentum, then you still reach almost as far as you would normally, so it makes it far far less useful.
Sneak8288
Smash Champion
Just less useful in certain situations, like i said the usage just changes. Say if you like in the top right corner borderline the boundary of death but you survive, if you use side b and shorten it it would bring you further than his up b or normal side b. So its still useful at times but just has a different use
Thunderhorse+
Smash Ace
The reason Melee Falco couldn't do that was because IAPing in Melee is an impossibility. You have the same chance of performing one as you do of dash attacking with the c-stick. I don't know why Sakurai decided to give Falco that ability and not Fox, but it's Sakurai.
If you guys really want to return the phantasm to return to Melee form, what I'd do is not only move the hitbox back, but also replace his current phantasm with Fox's illusion, and alter the distance/trajectory/damage to match his Phantasm. The result should theoretically be what he has now but with the inexplicable ability to not be able to IAP (as well as reduced priority). If that doesn't work, my wild mass guessing theory is that it has something to do with both the landing detection and Falco's extra jump frame. But again, wild mass guessing, but those would be the next things I'd tamper with.
But unlike you, I only think IAP was a problem when it was vBrawl/+ length. It is half the length it was before, so there is no way it is nearly as potent at running away as it is in either of those two games. And with reduced priority (which I don't oppose at all), a bit more endlag, and MAYBE a touch more start-up, I don't see the need to remove IAP. It's a perfectly fine AT (yes it's an AT. Not a difficult one by any means, but neither is dash dancing) that was never 'too good' even in it's normal incarnation, much less it's current form.
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