Project M Social Thread

[SymphonicSage12]

Give him multiple jumps, but every time he jumps he footstools his pikmin and kills it.

perfect idea.

Spoiler

especially when it makes footstools have a purpose

 

[Sterowent]

hey, i like that idea. it sounds difficult to code, however.

if that were possible, though, i'd suggest different pikmin giving better rebound. he could even prepare for matchups vs. heavy gimp chars with the right pikmin lineup, forcing a better recovery when he'd need it and forcing the opponent to keep in mind what pikmin he'd be bouncing off of so as to catch the good captain. assuming all of this were to happen, i question whether he should go into freefall after a period of time of him not pikmin hopping.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

It should be like this:

Rebound strength (weakest to strongest)

1.) Yellow
2.) Blue
3.) Red
4.) White
5.) Purple

 

[Sterowent]

ah, but it remains to be seen which of those are best to combo with. i imagine this changes with matchups and percentage - which is really dynamic. when oli does become meleefied, with a recovery that fits, be it through a better tether system or not, he's going to be a very interesting character to watch if he can effectively combo, especially with the correct pikmin in hand.

 

[I R MarF]

For Olimar, how about he footstools one of his pikmin?

That would actually be pretty interesting.

However, would you actually have to appropriately footstool each pikmin, or would each jump after your double jump automatically kill the next pikmin in line?

 

[Wind Owl]

Guys... We're not giving Olimar 6 jumps. If the footstool idea happens in any form, it'll be one Up B and then special fall.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

I've been out of the loop on this discussion but I think everyone can agree any recovery like ZSS(sorta, i'm aware of side-b)/ivy/olimar needs a major change.

Character Changes (more to come):
There have been many character changes which greatly adjust characters gameplay and new balancing changes. A few highlights include:

this is exactly what i was referring to earlier about major changes. is this new or has it been up? sorry if it's been up and i was suggesting it lol.

 

[94teen]

The footstool thing sounds interesting, but I do think that up to 6 jumps is way too much, but one might not be enough; I guess testing would necessary to determine how many jumps is appropriate. Probably 2 or 3 would be fair depending on how footstool ends up functioning with Melee-style physics.


Any word on Zamus? I'm actually really excited to see how she turns out/hear what's going on with her. Seems like she could have a pretty sick grab game/Uair combos, especially with the UpB spikes. She was always a blast to play in brawl, and I can't wait to see how she turns out in this. Is there any particular work that's going on with her right now?

 

[Wind Owl]

She's my pet project this week; Jiang and I have a lot of cool ideas for her. Definitely won't be as major a change as Snake, but I think you guys will like what we're doing.

 

[94teen]

Awesome. Can't wait to see what you come up with.

I find of envisioned her ending up like Captain Falcon/Mario, with lots of Uair combos that could be ended with the SideB. As long as some grabs lead to Uairs, I'll be pretty happy. It doesn't seem like any of her other aerials do a whole lot for that gameplan though. A lot of them just seem way slow for melee. Is there a chance that her Fair could end up like Falcon's nair? Something that can be used in conjunction with Uair for combos?

 

[Wind Owl]

The route you're talking about is one we've discussed, but we've decided to try out a different direction. I'd rather not say more than that at this point

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Guys... We're not giving Olimar 6 jumps. If the footstool idea happens in any form, it'll be one Up B and then special fall.

That's sort of what I meant. >.>

 

[Voodoo Daddy]

Olimar still has to have some kind of game plan. Foot stooling his pikmin wouldn't be the most practical way to not only provide his recovery but create scenarios for interesting combos as well.

footstole jumping would make him like jiggs... except with pikmin. And god knows the last thing we need is another jiggs.

Edit: I think his up b should also add offensive gameplay, because he's so limited and uninteresting.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

What about the pikmin throwing him up in the air, like GAW's upB
Then they fall..
And maybe the more pikmin you have tossing him, the farther up he goes
And then of course olimar goes into free fall
Maybe an attack on the way up.
It could be altered to balance him if his onstage game is too good or too bad

Edit: Heck, maybe it could even charge up with the pikmin, Leaf goes a shorter distance and flowers go a larger distance.
a small reward for keeping your pikmin alive and managing them well.

Maybe he could use a pikmin as a helicopter with its spinning its flower : P to slow his descent... if that wasnt suggested

Maybe that could be a whole different Idea
pressing (button) faster makes him rise, and not pressing it makes him lose his upward momentum and make him fall,
like that one leaf guy from windwaker when you mindcontroll him : P

 

[Strong Badam]

you know what i'm thinkin? i'm thinkin **** all the brawl chars until we're done with the melee chars.

yeah you heard me. WHAT

 

[Wind Owl]

You already said that. Go away.

 

[hotdogturtle]

a small reward for keeping your pikmin alive and managing them well.

The problem with this is that you're not supposed to do that. Pikmin were created to be small, expendable, and easily replaceable. That's how the Gamecube games were designed, and I think that quality transfered to his Brawl character pretty well. Asking an Olimar player to treat his Pikmin as long-lasting sidekicks is going against the core concept of the character, which is something that they wanted to avoid. It's like taking away Link's sword.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

The problem with this is that you're not supposed to do that. Pikmin were created to be small, expendable, and easily replaceable. That's how the Gamecube games were designed, and I think that quality transfered to his Brawl character pretty well. Asking an Olimar player to treat his Pikmin as long-lasting sidekicks is going against the core concept of the character, which is something that they wanted to avoid. It's like taking away Link's sword.

yeah, just a small portion of my idea : P
but what do you think about the GAW type style recovery

 

[ValTroX]

What about the pikmin throwing him up in the air, like GAW's upB
Then they fall..
And maybe the more pikmin you have tossing him, the farther up he goes
And then of course olimar goes into free fall
Maybe an attack on the way up.
It could be altered to balance him if his onstage game is too good or too bad

Edit: Heck, maybe it could even charge up with the pikmin, Leaf goes a shorter distance and flowers go a larger distance.
a small reward for keeping your pikmin alive and managing them well.

Maybe he could use a pikmin as a helicopter with its spinning its flower : P to slow his descent... if that wasnt suggested

Maybe that could be a whole different Idea
pressing (button) faster makes him rise, and not pressing it makes him lose his upward momentum and make him fall,
like that one leaf guy from windwaker when you mindcontroll him : P

Best idea I've heard so far, the problem with flower pikmin and lenght is that it becomes kinda hard to sweetspot(Imagine having 2 flower, or 1 flower 1 non-flower or just 2 nonfowers) too many variations IMHO(although it rewards the players experienced in Oli once they get the hang of it)
Edit: Also another problem would be having the time t see which pikmin you have, remember, melee enviroment is VERY fast, you could take 5 mins to look at your pikmin falling in the floaty brawl, but it can be kinda hard here

 

[bleyva]

you know what i'm thinkin? i'm thinkin **** all the brawl chars until we're done with the melee chars.

yeah you heard me. WHAT

i see no problem with this philosophy. whats wrong with trying to get everything from melee up and running before tackling the brawl ****? seems pretty organized to me.

 

[ValTroX]

But it seems rewarding when ideas like Mch12's for Oli's recovery bloom.

 

[Archangel]

I think getting melee character's fixed should be the top of the to do list. However I think this should be negated should a Brawl addition show really promising potential during meleefication and testing.

 

[Wind Owl]

i see no problem with this philosophy. whats wrong with trying to get everything from melee up and running before tackling the brawl ****? seems pretty organized to me.

Brawl characters are more fun to think about, and no one is getting paid.

But it seems rewarding when ideas like Mch12's for Oli's recovery bloom.

Dohohoho!

 

[cobaltblue]

i see no problem with this philosophy. whats wrong with trying to get everything from melee up and running before tackling the brawl ****? seems pretty organized to me.

If my understanding is correct because the entire team is not focusing on one character. It would be counter productive to have too many cooks in the kitchen so to speak. And I don't think it'd get the game out to public beta any faster as it goes against the team's original statement of looking professional. Especially if any changes have to happen for one reason or another (example being B+'s captain falcon having to be changed due to getting chain grabbed by everyone).

Projects being divided up into individual parts is part programming and professionalism in general. I also doubt people here want coders who aren't experts working on their characters or trying to debate just what should and should not be.

 

[Glöwworm]

^lol, omfg, we were completely unawares!!!11!

if someone had a problem with us using something we wouldn't.

you know what i'm thinkin? i'm thinkin **** all the brawl chars until we're done with the melee chars.

yeah you heard me. WHAT

why am i under the impression that you're the youngest of the entire project m dev team?

 

[Strong Badam]

If your goal was to piss me off, you were very successful.

 

[cubaisdeath]

lol that was a pretty stupid insult. pretty sure age doesn't matter, especially on smashboards where everyone acts like a 12 year old anyways

 

[Glöwworm]

If your goal was to piss me off, you were very successful.

It wasn't. But too bad I didn't say this in sonic cage dome or I would have been banned.

lol that was a pretty stupid insult. pretty sure age doesn't matter, especially on smashboards where everyone acts like a 12 year old anyways

It wasn't an insult.

I'm getting tired of these kinds of posts from Strong_bad. I'm sure he has a lot under his belt and gets the same questions asked every time but ...****.

 

[shanus]

Alright, time for me to chime in here.

First regarding age, it simply can't function as any form of insult here nor should it be used so. For those who don't know, many of the underlying codes used by many of you were actually made by people before they had gone to college (Almas, TPK) as examples, so please don't even begin these kind of arguments here.

Now, the idea of talking about melee chars vs brawl chars. This is a petty argument since well, we already disclosed that we are currently focusing on finishing melee chars first. We don't need long public discussion on how to calculate the physics behind marth, so there isn't a point to limit our discussion to melee characters.

So, discussion about new ideas about brawl chars is fine, and should be encouraged especially on abstract characters such as olimar. The only thing I want to stress is no matter how good you think your idea may be, do not be insulted if someone on the PMBR does not like it or if it doesn't get instituted. A lot of these ideas such as olimar sacrificing a pikmin to footstool would be tremendously difficult to code, just as an fyi.

 

[ds22]

I have a question.
Do you tend to give R.O.B. a Melee Air dodge?

 

[Revven]

Everyone has a Melee Air Dodge. The special fall was made for ROB.

 

[ds22]

Everyone has a Melee Air Dodge. The special fall was made for ROB.

Ok.
I stumbled on it yesterday and wanted to know if you to knew about it.

 

[Sora-kun]

taking away Link's sword.

i ;_;'d

dun do that to oli D: i know his pain now.

 

[Sterowent]

to be fair, it seems more like giving link Y.Link's sword, the slingshot, and only the first level of spin attack, then giving him the good stuff...a minute later. every stock/time he throws them away.

maybe not exactly like that, but...

 

[ValTroX]

Dohohoho!

Too...metaphoric for you? wuahaha I agree it was kinda awkward but served its purpose.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I personally think something needs to be done about Diddy's recovery. Sure, his crappy up b balances out his dominance on the stage, but in a melee-like environment, he's going to be screwed 90% of the time...

 

[GameWatching]

are you going to disable the swimming ?

 

[Sora-kun]

are you going to disable the swimming ?

in B+ japes it's gone =/ idk about delfino. if they keep it on delfino it won't be much of an issue since only one stage utilizes it (barring pirate ship)

but it's their decision. @_@ they might bcuz "IT WUZN'T IN MELEEZ SO TAKE IT OUT NAO"

i'm jp don't kill me. swimming isn't one of the more melee'ish things in brawl anyway <_< it's probably better if it were taken out. it's not like it's particularly useful or anything. replace the water with lava and make it hellfino. THAT would be a ****** level.

 

[GP&B]

From what I've seen, water is both an easy mode for recovery and at the same time a place to get the **** gimped out of you. You could have the crappiest recovery in the world but as long as you land in the water, you can't get gimped from the stage into the water which would probably make the particular stage receive heavy criticism; it can also be abused from the on-stage opponent's view by simply waiting for your character to take an hour to rise and then smash his face underwater time after time until he's KO'd. Ironically, this might be acceptable on say, Great Bay where you get stupid ceiling gimps but you still have the issue of the right boundary being so far out that you can still recover with ease.

 

[Isatis]

Shanus already nailed it, however I've had to warn about this earlier in the thread; I'll re-up this for those that missed it: No flaming or trolling. Not to members, not to P:MBR, this goes for everyone involved.