Project M Social Thread

[Raqib]

You know what?
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_mzr8j1z2DPw/S2DBPn5nb4I/AAAAAAAAAYc/X-lONYwYCCg/al_091224_1451(1).bin.out.jpg

You know what?
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Deleted member]

Oh... In terms of creating a game's balance and structure... Makes sense.

I thought the dude meant that pro players can't discuss strategy reasonably.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

No. He's right. Being good at a game != Knowing how to develop/balance a game.

Yeah. I still remember a certain someone wanting Snake banned in teams LOL.

 

[Cero]

There's also a project M side tourney at ESAM's Zero Ping in South Florida. Nicaboy/FlaminRoy as well as brawl players like Seibrik and Nick Riddle will prolly be entering. Get sorta hype.

Yo, when's this going to happen? I'm so down to play Project M.

 

[Archangel]

Vid speaks for itself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P06Fv__WMmw&feature=sub

 

[Grim Tuesday]

So, can someone who watched the stream explain what is going on with ROB?

 

[ConnorTheKid]

ROB now has 3 air boosts max when recovering.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

ROB now has 3 air boosts max when recovering.

That's... it...?
I'm quite underwhelmed

 

[AeonClock]

That's... it...?
I'm quite underwhelmed

His side-b is a horizontal air dash. You can't cancel it mid boost but you can attack at the end of it. His vertical and horizontal dash can only be used 3 times in the air though.

 

[jalued]

His side-b is a horizontal air dash. You can't cancel it mid boost but you can attack at the end of it. His vertical and horizontal dash can only be used 3 times in the air though.

is there a vid?

 

[Revven]

No there isn't because it's not something that's exactly finalized. If you missed the stream, you missed the stream lol.

 

[Archangel]

someone should record and rip the stream or something. Sometimes people just can't watch it. I had to drive to Maryland then back to Delaware then back to Maryland then back to Maryland then back to Delaware .

 

[kaizo13]

^

you could have watched the stream when you went from Maryland back to Maryland since it only takes about zero seconds to get there

 

[JCaesar]

I'm gonna upload one ROB match unlisted so I can get some input from my ROBros on the new ROB, but if you missed the stream and wanna see how it works, PM me and I'll give you the link when I get it up.

 

[Kix]

No! Don't do it!

In all honesty when is anyone going to use that watergun?!

 

[genkaku]

Why don't you just give ROB a recovery like Pikachu's, only robotified? It seems like a more elegant solution than what's going on now.

[edit]
Yeah, I think this would definitely give him more interesting recovery options and should make his game that much less static.

 

[FireBall Stars]

I liked the little animation changes in Falco.

I hope they will be applied to the main build :B

 

[Archangel]

^

you could have watched the stream when you went from Maryland back to Maryland since it only takes about zero seconds to get there

i meant i traveled almost out of Maryland and forgot something

 

[Alondite]

Mmm...I don't completely agree with all the goals of this project. Not that it matters of course, but while Melee was a solid competitive game, there were some really stupid elements that did nothing but get in the way of the actual game.

People tout it as "requiring more tech skill," but in reality it's just adding a layer of complexity that doesn't add any depth. What does manual l-canceling add over an auto-cancel? Pointless button presses. It doesn't take any more "skill" to press an extra button. And is it possible to remove the jump command for wavedashing and instead make it just a diagonal dodge into the ground? Same result, less complexity. It is the effect of those two mechanics that add to the game, not the input required. Having skill isn't being able to perform those actions, it's how you use them. Keeping them as-is just adds needless complexity. Or as Sirlin would say: "They just get in the way and add the worst kind of complexity to the game: complexity that makes the game harder to learn yet no more interesting to play."

I'm all for making a faster, more combo-centric version of Brawl, but this is the perfect opportunity to fix the things that Melee did wrong, not do them wrong again.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Why would their be a button for wavedashing? It's just jump into airdodge. There shouldn't be a button because people can't jump to airdodge. Otherwise you lose things like sidesteps and roll dodges. lol

Manual L-canceling also does have competitive depth. If you tilt your shield, the hitlag changes the time frame in which you can L-cancel. Mix-ups son.

Oh and if we were to listen to Sirlin, we would be using items and a 2-minute timer. I hate sirlin***s.

 

[Shadic]

We're not having another L-canceling discussion. Do you know how many times that has come up in the 14,500 posts in this thread? A lot.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

FAQ

Stuff

rPSI Edit: As of 9/19/10, I will infract you if you bring up Manual L-Canceling vs. Automatic L-Canceling. >:U

<Ten Characters

 

[Stevo]

missed the stream

I'm hoping Canada will get more hyped on this project.

I'll see if I can convince some.

 

[AeonClock]

Mmm...I don't completely agree with all the goals of this project. Not that it matters of course, but while Melee was a solid competitive game, there were some really stupid elements that did nothing but get in the way of the actual game.

People tout it as "requiring more tech skill," but in reality it's just adding a layer of complexity that doesn't add any depth. What does manual l-canceling add over an auto-cancel? Pointless button presses. It doesn't take any more "skill" to press an extra button. And is it possible to remove the jump command for wavedashing and instead make it just a diagonal dodge into the ground? Same result, less complexity. It is the effect of those two mechanics that add to the game, not the input required. Having skill isn't being able to perform those actions, it's how you use them. Keeping them as-is just adds needless complexity. Or as Sirlin would say: "They just get in the way and add the worst kind of complexity to the game: complexity that makes the game harder to learn yet no more interesting to play."

I'm all for making a faster, more combo-centric version of Brawl, but this is the perfect opportunity to fix the things that Melee did wrong, not do them wrong again.

Where's the fun in simplifying it?
For me the "complex inputs" for wave dashing/l-canceling and other technical......... techniques make pulling off combos so much more rewarding. It's not just knowing how and when to utilize tech skills that gives the game depth, it's actually being able to pull them off. Knowing how to apply some beastly shield pressure with fox and actually APPLYING the shield pressure are two TOTALLY different things.

 

[Revven]

missed the stream

I'm hoping Canada will get more hyped on this project.

I'll see if I can convince some.

There's Toronto peeps who have it (well, 5ive has it) and unknown522 has access to it.

 

[Sora-kun]

Mmm...I don't completely agree with all the goals of this project. Not that it matters of course, but while Melee was a solid competitive game, there were some really stupid elements that did nothing but get in the way of the actual game.

People tout it as "requiring more tech skill," but in reality it's just adding a layer of complexity that doesn't add any depth. What does manual l-canceling add over an auto-cancel? Pointless button presses. It doesn't take any more "skill" to press an extra button. And is it possible to remove the jump command for wavedashing and instead make it just a diagonal dodge into the ground? Same result, less complexity. It is the effect of those two mechanics that add to the game, not the input required. Having skill isn't being able to perform those actions, it's how you use them. Keeping them as-is just adds needless complexity. Or as Sirlin would say: "They just get in the way and add the worst kind of complexity to the game: complexity that makes the game harder to learn yet no more interesting to play."

I'm all for making a faster, more combo-centric version of Brawl, but this is the perfect opportunity to fix the things that Melee did wrong, not do them wrong again.

If they took out L-cancelling then this game would lose 60% of its appeal to me. Some people like having to work for their speed rather than having it handed to them. I'm not gonna continue any more than that because it's laughably pointless.

 

[JCaesar]

Why don't you just give ROB a recovery like Pikachu's, only robotified? It seems like a more elegant solution than what's going on now.

[edit]
Yeah, I think this would definitely give him more interesting recovery options and should make his game that much less static.

What is inelegant about the current airdashing? ROB with a Pikachu quick attack would look horrendously silly, and it would also be a lot less useful offensively.

 

[Spelt]

i thought P:M was fixing the things melee did wrong?

 

[GP&B]

L-canceling is really not a problem and it's been discussed a million times why.

Hence the reason rPSI will infract anyone for any more continued discussion.

 

[Crispy4001]

Oh and if we were to listen to Sirlin, we would be using items and a 2-minute timer. I hate sirlin***s.

Wasn't Sirlin the guy who butchered the Brawl ruleset at EVO a few years back?

2-minute timer by default in Brawl was a terrible idea to begin with. I've never met anyone who doesn't change it. Then again, stranger flukes were made in Brawl ... (tripping)

 

[Archangel]

i thought P:M was fixing the things melee did wrong?

Learn to L-cancel. Then you won't have the problem anymore.

 

[Spelt]

i wasn't talking about l-canceling, i don't have a problem with that. wavedashing either. dunno why anybody would hate them.

but melee isn't a perfect game and i can certainly think of a few things it could improve on.

 

[GP&B]

Oh, that's what I thought you were talking about.

But yeah, P:M is definitely improving some factors. For one, every character can grab the ledge backwards at the end of their Up B's and characters who had piss-poor shields (G&W comes to mind) are getting improvements if Brawl didn't already help those shields out.

 

[JCaesar]

We know Melee isn't perfect and we aren't replicating it 1:1

 

[Stevo]

Guys, I wrote this in the regional section for my area, and I would like some extra imput on my position. I'm wondering how you all feel about this topic, especially the P:M devs.
If you could glance over what I wrote and let me know what you agree/disagree with, that would be great. While promoting this project, I want to make sure I stay accurate to the goals of the team.

Bad idea in my opinion. Fighting games are not meant to be balanced.

I don't know anything about other fighters, but I agree smash needs to be un-balanced.

any balance melee has is because of imbalance.

Falco has ridiculous combos and approaches, jiggs has air mobility and priority, Marth has grab/attack range, sheik has grab and edgeguarding, fox has up-throw up-smash up air and run speed, peach with recovery and d-smash, etc.etc. (the list of imbalances goes on)

if those high tier chars werent imbalanced, not only would melee not be as popular, but the super high end competitive aspect would be neutered as well.

However, I do not agree that Smash cannot have a very accurate balance between the viability of characters. Balanced by Imbalance.

Rock is so imbalanced that it COMPLETELY beats Scissors, but is it not still balanced?

If every character is redonkulously good, doesn't that sort of mean nobody is?

If Roy was in high tier, would melee be less balanced? What if you took out every character under Falcon in the tier list.

having bad characters IS going to happen, but having more top tier characters is possible as well.
Eventually, with unlimited time, you could have a full cast of tournament viable characters.

I don't think Project:M should strive to have every character be "top tier", but it should strive to have more, and to make the low tiers less ****ty.


Project M has the advantage of hindsight through melee's strengths and faults.

 

[Revven]

but it should strive to have more, and to make the low tiers less ****ty.

That's... the goal. We're not striving for perfect balance, I think we made that pretty clear.

 

[Gea]

So basically you're saying, "Don't nerf the top tiers," which was already pretty much the mindset of the project.

Edit: effing ninja'd

 

[Stevo]

I wasn't stating that wasn't your guys' goal already in the first place, I was just making sure what I'm telling others is accurate I guess.....

I'm trying to HELP the hype here..... don't start trying to convince ME what you guys are doing is good lol. I'm already on-board.

 

[Revven]

Then you have it right haha, my bad sir.

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

Glitch that could be recreated for Ness.

What about the Yo-yo Glitch?

I have been out for long, came back, and haven't seen thru last pages nothing about ness.

Yo-yo glitch to my understanding on PSA knowledge can be created, not that I'm 100% sure how to re-create it, but, lucario hitting ness charging upsmash with an aura sphere makes yo-yo stay out, so, adding bit variables or RA-Basic could make the Yo-yo glitch live again


just throwing this out, not a ness user, but I know someone in puerto rico that amazed me once with the use of the Yo-yo glitch