Project M Social Thread

[OverLade]

A lot of people have no idea what they want and are just trying to boost their post count

 

[AMKalmar]

there's a point where it's impossible to prevent something from happening via coding/design without at the same time sacrificing something we wish to keep. for example, we want to keep jigglypuff's rising pound, high aerail mobility, slow falling speed, jump amount, etc. as far as her recovery goes, but we don't want puff players to stall with it. what do we do there? there's no way we can program an aspect of jigglypuff without sacrificing this aspect.
solution: ban stalling.

This wasn't his point, but a possible solution to puff's rising pound stall would be to make the ability to affect vertical momentum diminish with successive uses of the move. For example, while airborne:

x = number of times pound has been used this "flight."
i = number of times pound may be used before its influence on vertical momentum begins to diminish.
f = the number of times pound must be used after it begins to lose influence for it to have no influence on vertical momentum.
y = multiplier for pound's influence on vertical momentum.

if x < i then y = 1
else if x > i + f then y = 0
else y = cos(pi(x - i)/f)/2 + 1/2

In english:
Aerial pound behaves normally for a certain number of uses (i). Then, over a certain number of uses(f), the move's influence on vertical momentum eases from normal to none. After this point (i + f), aerial pound has no influence on vertical momentum. Touch ground to set x to 0.

If you

Spoiler

're a horrible person and

don't care about easing then the transition could be linear.

 

[MuBa]

so, i suppose no saturday stream, huh? such a waste!

Unfortunately we'd have to wait for JC or anyone else to stream

 

[Sovereign]

Ganondorf is already awesome. Gerudo is already amazing, he really doesn't need that move to be any better.

..And weren't you complaining about making Melee characters more like they were in Melee just for the hell of it?

Yeah, but this is about Ganon, no one else. I'm a Ganon main, so yeah... :3c

A lot of people have no idea what they want and are just trying to boost their post count

Nu-uh... I just like to ask questions and present some ideas. I still want the Ike idea to go down.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

Unfortunately we'd have to wait for JC or anyone else to stream

Nope, no stream today from us. This is a strictly non-P:M weekend.

Maybe someone else will step up?

 

[ss118]

You can make Ganon's side-b like Samus' in the sense that you have a strong and weak one. Like homing vs super missle.

Super Missle = melee side b
Homing Missle = brawl side b

 

[Revven]

We know we can, we're just not going to because Ganondorf doesn't need it.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

This wasn't his point, but a possible solution to puff's rising pound stall would be to make the ability to affect vertical momentum diminish with successive uses of the move. For example, while airborne:

x = number of times pound has been used this "flight."
i = number of times pound may be used before its influence on vertical momentum begins to diminish.
f = the number of times pound must be used after it begins to lose influence for it to have no influence on vertical momentum.
y = multiplier for pound's influence on vertical momentum.

if x < i then y = 1
else if x > i + f then y = 0
else y = cos(pi(x - i)/f)/2 + 1/2

In english:
Aerial pound behaves normally for a certain number of uses (i). Then, over a certain number of uses(f), the move's influence on vertical momentum eases from normal to none. After this point (i + f), aerial pound has no influence on vertical momentum. Touch ground to set x to 0.

If you

Spoiler

're a horrible person and

don't care about easing then the transition could be linear.

I actually like this idea a lot.

 

[ss118]

It was just a suggestion. =P

Does the current version have melee or brawl side b?

 

[Revven]

Brawl Side B, but people can tech it so it allows techchasing.

Also, stream: http://www.justin.tv/ryokoyaksa#/w/509367408

 

[NxtGenFalco93]

Oh, I assumed it was recent since I saw it on the same page. Didn't check the date.

Are there any YouTube channels other than JCaeser's that post project M videos?

What are the plans for camera behavior? It think it was too twitchy in melee.

look for vids by cubisdeath. i subbed him and he has put out a few new vids recently, including one with MK...

 

[Strong Badam]

Did someone just suggest we add trigonometric functions with variables into a character .pac?
Not to mention there are a huge amount of different ways to land, so setting and clearing a bit to refresh the diminishing would likely have a ton of issues.

 

[LiQViD]

Also, trig functions are slow, which can become a problem when all calculations need to be done within 16ms.

 

[Sovereign]

Brawl Side B, but people can tech it so it allows techchasing.

There was already a techchasing factor before you allowed them to tech it, plus it nerfs the hell out of the Aerial Gerudo.

 

[Shadic]

Not to mention there are a huge amount of different ways to land, so setting and clearing a bit to refresh the diminishing would likely have a ton of issues.

It's been done in many PSA Projects, AND Camelot found a variable that does the exact same thing today.

 

[Jonas]

Who uses aerial Gerudo? o_O

 

[cybergeko]

What EXACTLY is project melee? just wonder...

 

[Strong Badam]

Project Melee is a texture, music, etc. hacking project that modifies Super Smash Bros. Melee.

Project M, however, you can find a decent amount of information about in the second post of this thread.

 

[[TSON]]

LOL @ TRIG

ahahah oh god thanks for the laughs

no but really try to do it linearly with 7th gradeish math because you know
sakurai did not add the cosine function in brawl's language because
it's not needed why would it be needed
it isn't
ok

 

[ConnorTheKid]

**** trig, that stuff is hard

 

[Alex 615]

If you don't have access to trig functions, you could always get a good approximation with a maclaurin series.

Also, I know the release date for a public beta is whenever it's ready, but is there any consensus in the PMBR as to what constitutes "ready"? Will you wait until all 39 characters have been meleefied to the back room's satisfaction? Will the release be held back for the inclusion of clone engine characters? Will you wait until every single little detail like landing detection, wall grappling, throws, DI, c-stick behavior, etc have been fixed, along with everything mentioned above?

 

[genkaku]

if x < i then y = 1
else if x > i + f then y = 0
else y = cos(pi(x - i)/f)/2 + 1/2

I like Puff unnerfed.

 

[JOE!]

Fair enough, Shadic. Thanks for the reply.

I had an idea, and would like to throw this:

Can Ganon have an option-select on his Gerudo? Like, pressing side-B will give you the usual grab, but pressing be at a certain frame window will give you the uppercut or spike, if used in the air. Just wanted to throw that out, since I do miss his uppercut.

why do you want him to be a nigh 100% falcon clone...again...?

anywho, this brings up another question from me:

I know Ganon got his usmash, Dsmash and i think Dair Animations changed (dont like the last cus I feel the Brawl Murder Stomp has more of a feeling of POWAH behind it), and Falco got his old Shine back, but are there any other plans to change vets to be more like their melee selves, or will things from brawl be kept?

(for example, Peach's Hearts vs 'splosions, FLUDD, etc)

 

[Strong Badam]

If you don't have access to trig functions, you could always get a good approximation with a maclaurin series.[/quote[
gonna kill you

Also, I know the release date for a public beta is whenever it's ready, but is there any consensus in the PMBR as to what constitutes "ready"? Will you wait until all 39 characters have been meleefied to the back room's satisfaction? Will the release be held back for the inclusion of clone engine characters? Will you wait until every single little detail like landing detection, wall grappling, throws, DI, c-stick behavior, etc have been fixed, along with everything mentioned above?

in the second **** post

also FLUDD is not staying afaik

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Actually Strong_Bad, his question isn't answered in the second post.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Even if AMKalmar's particular idea isn't practical, it does raise another issue I don't see brought up too often.

Melee tourneys always had really vague anti-stalling rules that were (arguably) necessitated by things like Puff's rising pound and a few ledge-camping strats. I dislike this rule since, in addition to being vague, the stage/match-up combinations in which one character can completely evade the other in an easy and deterministic way are few and far between. What sort of implementations could be brought in to make it so we don't need vague anti-stalling rules for these cases?

This varies greatly by stage and match-up, but here a few ideas anyways. One thing that BBrawl did was make it so that you automatically get up from a ledge if you grab a ledge(s) a certain number of times before landing on a surface. This would probably deal with a lot of problematic situations nicely.

Would it be possible to limit the number of times Puff could use pound per airborne period? The condition for regaining the pounds would be landing on a surface in this case. To make sure that this wouldn't actually hurt her recovery in a particularly significant way, you could give her at least as many pounds as she has midair jumps. This would have almost no influence on her recovery, yet it would largely hinder pound's stalling potential.

 

[AMKalmar]

Yeah, so I saw Lucas in that stream. PK Fire is now PK Freeze but not really; That thing has got to FREEZE YOUR *** SOLID. Obviously, this is a serious problem that needs to be adressed ASAP I'm serious. Obvious solution: Chargeable side-b that moves slower and FREEZES YOUR *** SOLID. Just sayin'.

Now, you're probably thinking silly things like "why" or "no" but rest assured, that thing should most definitely FREEZE YOUR *** SOLID.

Gentlemen.

 

[Darkshooter]

Pichu will be discussed with all the PMBR people.

A lot of my ideas for Pichu make him too good, and how to balance it properly will be discussed after everyone gets their hands on it. Working on landing detection and the clone engine kinda gets old when absolutely no progress is made using hours of my time.

Pichu is the first time I have actually worked on a CHARACTER, as opposed to making global codes. Its fun and ****e.
Anyways, all progress for me is stalled since I am not going to be home for a while.

Suggesting a suit for Pichu (For when you get back):

-Wears a smart suit
-Has a trollface badge stuck onto his tie
-Tie itself is scrolled with words like "U MAD?" and "Problem, officer?"

It may contain a hint of "Unrealistic Expectations", buts lets give the idea a go anyway

 

[Alphatron]

Can we still select the buffer window when choosing our character?

 

[Shadic]

Can we still select the buffer window when choosing our character?

No.

And limiting Pound should be relatively easy. We could probably even just limit the amount of times Pound can be "Rising Pound." Haven't really been discussed. Strong_Bad is in strong favor of the "herpdederp plz don't stall" rule, and I'm of the opinion that we should just to our best to negate the possibility of it.

 

[NatP]

One question: you guys keep mentioning that ganon is amazing. But I have to ask, why? Just because you changed his side b, upb and ftilt? What makes him so much better than his melee version?

 

[genkaku]

he is older and wiser

 

[Cactuarz]

Ganon: was amazing before hand, nuff said?

but really up b being better/safer helps since his recovery is what really drove him down. Side b > tech chase is just scary seeing as how ganon gets a read, you get a wizards foot or a bair... or a grab, any of those options kill stupidly early.

Basically he's good

 

[Sterowent]

you'd be surprised how big a difference the change to his upB brings, and how useful an unblockable sideB can be. also, i'm pretty sure small changes in knockback are sprinkled amidst some of his old moves.

ganon wasn't that far away from being high or top, you know. high dmg output, high kill power, that jab, the good recovery with the fatal flaw...

edit: turbo ninja'd.

 

[OverLade]

One question: you guys keep mentioning that ganon is amazing. But I have to ask, why? Just because you changed his side b, upb and ftilt? What makes him so much better than his melee version?

Side B and UpB by themselves. His recovery was a major weakness in melee and now he definitely has a great recovery mix up. Side B is just gross don't get me started.

 

[I R MarF]

I'm trying not to come off as a whiner, but Jiggs NEEDS to be nerfed somehow.

All of the characters in smash are pretty equal when it comes to risks and rewards. However, the closest Jiggs comes to a risk is with rest, and considering the power and speed of that attack the reward still outweighs the possibility of being punished.

So its pretty obvious that Jiggs is one-of-a-kind in the smash world. The margin of error is maximized for her opponents while Jiggs can enjoy the comfort of being difficult to combo at kill percent, having the best offstage game, and her rest combos are easily the fastest and most lethal finishers amongst the cast.

of course, you could say that my opinion is solely based on the fact that "da 2 behst playahs use pUff" but that doesn't change the fact that based on her attributes she has a far more uneven risk/reward ratio than pretty much the entire melee cast.

IMO, her risks should be upped by making her kill percent even lower than it already is. Granted, it'll make her harder to combo, but at least Jiggs mains will be forced to play with a bit more caution if the stakes are higher and Jiggs is more like the majority of the cast.

 

[JOE!]

So its pretty obvious that Jiggs is one-of-a-kind in the smash world.

anyways, futher pestering:

are brawl-centic things still being kept around? Such as some moves ability to trip (like a good amount of Dtilts), tethers auto-snapping to the edge (lets face it, this may be somethign thats needed now that edgegaurding is more potent....they allready had risky recoveries, and how can oli/Ivy/Zamus "stick" to the sides of a stage?), and momentum canceling (in melee you only really had DI, in Brawl you can DI + Momentum cancel)

and on a character note:

Will Yoshi be compensated at all for his recovery being nerfed due to the Air Dodge change? His recovery was actually quite good in vBrawl considering he could use his air-dodge mid jump to have Super Armor, then be "invincible" for X distance in order to bypass almost all edgegaurd attempts. Seeing as he had no true 3rd jump, this seemed like a fiar trade...which he cannot do any more.

Annnnnnnd, I know this is against the rules, but will snake's silly tilt hitboxes see any re-working? I mean that utilt has the horizontal reach of like Ike's fsmash

 

[kaizo13]

Captain Mewtwo for P:M!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IKnU6Fdl84&feature=related

0:47 is awesome lol


AND....no jiggs doesn't need to be nerfed...get good

 

[Revven]

anyways, futher pestering:

are brawl-centic things still being kept around? Such as some moves ability to trip (like a good amount of Dtilts), tethers auto-snapping to the edge (lets face it, this may be somethign thats needed now that edgegaurding is more potent....they allready had risky recoveries, and how can oli/Ivy/Zamus "stick" to the sides of a stage?), and momentum canceling (in melee you only really had DI, in Brawl you can DI + Momentum cancel)

and on a character note:

Will Yoshi be compensated at all for his recovery being nerfed due to the Air Dodge change? His recovery was actually quite good in vBrawl considering he could use his air-dodge mid jump to have Super Armor, then be "invincible" for X distance in order to bypass almost all edgegaurd attempts. Seeing as he had no true 3rd jump, this seemed like a fiar trade...which he cannot do any more.

Annnnnnnd, I know this is against the rules, but will snake's silly tilt hitboxes see any re-working? I mean that utilt has the horizontal reach of like Ike's fsmash

You really should just watch some videos... like seriously, a lot of your questions can be answered just by watching JCaesar's videos or even others...

and Marf: We're not "nerfing" anyone right now, I don't even know why you brought it up.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

So has the animation change in ganon's wiz kick changed anything about the attack, or does it just look cool?