Project M Social Thread

[Supreme Dirt]

Not when he's at full power.

He's been holding back because it's more amusing to him to conquer Hyrule repeatedly.

 

[Shadic]

I hope people test the heck out of Link when the demo is released, and put in some heavy criticism. He's been low tier in every game, and I'd really like to see him rise, but I myself don't main him. He's the only character the development team has tweaked that I still have skepticism about because it just seems like they have given us Melee Link again (which is awesome) but with albeit small or insignificant improvements that won't impact his placements significantly.

Don't tell me I'm wrong, because I really hope I am.

Well, I designed most of current P:M Link, so I obviously hope that I did a good job on him. But if not, I'm sure that the team would be fine making any appropriate tweaks for him. He's a fun character to play as, probably more fun to play that he ever has been. (Maybe not Smash 64, but that's Smash 64. )

Spoiler

Instant cancels can't be beaten.

 

[Juushichi]

As for prior concerns about a how-to-guide... well. I'm not a developer, but I'm pretty sure they're putting stuff together for it. I for one am hyped!

 

[Ulevo]

If they're not, I'll probably take initiative myself. I've already had my Dazzle mailed to me for where I'm staying. The moment the demo comes out, I could be doing some video editing.

 

[FireBall Stars]

Tell me, the character icons being on the tier list order in the P:M site, that "?" after kirby is definitely pichu, right?

 

[IYM!]

i hope a great Link for this game, Link melee have his weakness, but is a good character overall, with many others stuff to compencate his fallings.


PM Link looks even better than his melee counterpart, the spin attack was improved as a recovery move, but the only thing than i am arry about is the theter recovery.


The Zair in melee had many ways to use it, but here in brawl it only have one way, make it predictable.

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

Tell me, the character icons being on the tier list order in the P:M site, that "?" after kirby is definitely pichu, right?

Given what Dant just said, I wouldn't expect it to be anything for a while.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Ganons that are hopeless with 100:0 match ups like bananas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k5vAlWhu34

...Unless the clone engine works better, to the point we can squeeze Pichu in. Might be worth having a joke character just to have someone to say "HA, I beat you with Pichu!"

No. Pichu should be viable.

Or we could make Pichu top tier.

Yes.

 

[GHNeko]

I like the sound of making pichu top tier for ****s and giggles.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Ganon having 100:0 against Nanas... makes me chuckle.

Brawl Ganon only has one debatably 100:0 MU, and that's against the Ice Climbers on Final Destination. Every other MU can be won.

Unfortunately, he only has three debatably good MUs, Captain Falcon, Bowser, and Charizard, although alas PT can just switch to the other two which beat him 60:40.


I'd love to see Pichu return. Amusingly, a friend and I were playing Melee the other day, and I just couldn't beat him with anyone but my Pichu. Which amused me greatly.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

What about Sheik on FD, arguably?

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

That would ruin much of the joke though.
The point is to beat your victim with the worst character in the game.

Making him the best would ruin that to the point where it has just as much meaning as

"Haha I beat you with Meta Knight in VBrawl"

Think about it.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Then why are you buffing Ganondorf? I mean, the point of him in Brawl is to beat the opponent with a bad character.

What's that? People actually like the character's design and want to see him viable? :O

The same applies to Pichu <3

 

[Lightosia]

Pichu should be top tier even with his self-damaging moves.

Pichu upsmash is sooo good.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Ganon was viable in Melee.

Pichu isn't and is a true Joke Character.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

There is no reason for the PM team to screw with a small section of it's target audience just for ****s and giggles.

Make Pichu viable, he doesn't need to be top tier.

 

[Scufo]

I would say that's different because Pichu was intended as a joke character but I can't prove that and to make that claim opens up a huge can of worms but OH WELL

edit: holy **** ninja'd

 

[Grim Tuesday]

You can prove it, Sakurai said it somewhere. I don't know the link, but yeah, he's a joke character.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Ganon was not intentionally a bad character. Note how much better he becomes in a FFA setting with items on.

Pichu was intentionally a joke character. His moveset, weight, and being the only character with two taunts are the only evidence you need.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Why does it matter if he was a joke character?

This isn't Melee, it's Project M. The concept of joke character is a stupid one and no one would benefit from Pichu being returned to his anti-glory.

 

[Scufo]

And here I thought there was some debate over whether Pichu was a joke character or not.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

I can prove that.
http://forum.starmen.net/forum/Stor...ing-a-comprehensive-list-of-unused-characters

Making Pichu a tad better wouldn't hurt, like giving him a better Fsmash.

Anyway, still nice to see some intellect in Kotaku comments.

Do poeple actually read?

I’d like to clear up some misconceptions :

Project M is not trying to be Melee. In a sense, it takes the best elements of Melee, the best of Brawl and adds new and improved elements.

For example, Game and Watch, while obtaining his more speedy metagame again also retains his Brawl recovery, which allows him to act again. Gannondorf also retains his side B because it was deemed more useful. Mario becomes a hybrid between his old Mario self and Dr. Mario, getting the best of both. This will strengthen him, allowing him to fare better against foes that typically used to demolish him. It would be more appropriate to say that it works on a Melee-like engine, and then recalibrated to be more balanced. The weaker the characters, the more boosts it gets. Strong characters don’t get nerfed or get almost no boosts, which you must agree, makes sense. So Project M gives the game a fast-paced, competitive system that can also be enjoyed casually without a problem.

For those who fear for their Brawl characters don’t worry. They are generally good as well. Sonic for instances was much improved and his homing attack is more direct, and hits more often. His spin dash actually does damage while charging. Wario is mad to be like in Wario Land, with a tackle instead of the motorcycle for example. Snake becomes an excellent trap character, getting fair use of his explosives. Of course, most Brawl characters keep their metagame, but now, they can combo effectively.

Furthermore, the build has additions. New stages, usually taking the form of old classics like the N64 Metal cavern , Dreamland 64 and Fountain of Dreams GC will be available. They are also working very hard to bring fully functional Roy and Mewtwo.

The game’s goal is to make a next-gen Melee-like Smash Bros. So why not just play Melee? Let me turn the question around: Why not make an improved build for our own enjoyment? Like you, we all wanted a sequel. The sequel was not what we had hoped for. So they are making their own. "Why don’t you just go play Melee?" is the single worst argument you can pull off. Now, how is the team harming your experience in any way? What is wrong with working toward a personal goal that will make you and others happy? If anything, these people should be respected for taking the time to build this and sharing it with others. It’s a lot of work, and many appreciate it. Besides, there are people like me who bought brawl expecting something else who will be happy to see their monetary investment actually feeling worthwhile.

Now a misconception about hardcore melee play: we don’t just do Final destination, 1 vs 1 no items. What is true is that we don’t use items during tournaments because we want the as little random interference as possible so that the winner actually is the better player. In terms of stages, we have a counterpick system, so most stages are viable. Tournament players also play casually at times like you do. However there is a misconception that pro play is not fun. High level play is actually really exhilarating. It pumps your adrenaline when a battle is fast-paced and puts pressure on you. What people are doing now is akin to saying "I have fun this way. Please stop having fun your way and play like me. It doesn’t matter if your tastes differ from mine; you have no right to enjoy yourself".

Look. I hate Brawl with a burning passion. I won’t judge you if you prefer it. It you’re enjoying it, cool, go play it. I wouldn’t play with you but I wouldn’t make fun of you for it. What I want you guys to think about just for a moment though, is how until now, the Project M side of the argument has been bringing up arguments like "We aren’t forcing you to get it. It’s there for people who want it", and people on the Brawl side are pretty much going "I hate you because you don’t like Brawl. Stop trying to change it!". So they call us elitists, yet they are the ones trying to force their ideals of how a Smash Bros game should be played on to us. Think about it.

Edit: For the joke to still hold weight, he still needs to be the worst character, but still should have some improvements.

 

[ds22]

Ganon was not intentionally a bad character. Note how much better he becomes in a FFA setting with items on.

Pichu was intentionally a joke character. His moveset, weight, and being the only character with two taunts are the only evidence you need.

Hate to correct, but Captain Falcon also has 2 taunts in Melee.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Show Me Yo' Moves and... ?

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

Show Me Yo' Moves and... ?

He means the taunt looked different depending on which way you faced. the one facing left was a slightly faster animation.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Wait, what?

 

[MK26]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BooGL0UsNnk

pichu's taunt actually changes depending on which way you're facing...only the duration changes for falcon

 

[Shadic]

Several characters in Melee have "different" taunts depending on what location you're facing. Pichu has a different taunt as well.

Edit: Gah! Slow Ninja'd.

 

[Ulevo]

Beh. Honestly, I think the idea of putting time and effort in to Pichu is a huge waste.

There's nothing redeeming about Pichu. It's essentially another Pikachu, it's an inferior clone character, and on top of all this, we already have enough Pokemon representation. And people want to include a playable Pichu? The only quality Pichu had was being the SFIV Dan of Smash. We all know its slot was more deserving to another character had the development team been allotted more time.

 

[Big-Cat]

Dan's actually better in the SFIV series than he ever was, or so I heard. I think they're making him more of a Lethal Joke Character than just a waste of space. Have you seen those LK Dankukyaku?

 

[.Fade]

Whether you want Pichu in or not is irrelevant. Dantarion wants Pichu, therefore he will have it.

 

[Ecks]

my only complain about pichu is that the game already has too many (playable) pokemon. not only that but we (myself included) also want mewtwo too.

edit:I guess it doesn't really matter as long as no one gets replaced.

 

[curry9186]

They're pokemon yo. You gotta catch em all.

Or play as all of them.

I dunno.

 

[IYM!]

will be nice see mewtwo back


he was a decent character, but sadly he isnt a midtier character

IMO, the things than he need to be a better character are:

1)More weight, like the link or C falcon weight
2) A side B than reflect the projectile, but this time, the reflected projectiles must hit
3)a little more strongs arials

 

[Vigilante]

[Deleted. I misquoted]

 

[Ecks]

mewtwo was a good character done wrong. I was so dissapointed when I unlocked him, I mean he's mewtwo dammit!

 

[Vigilante]

Anyway, still nice to see some intellect in Kotaku comments.

Thanks. That was me

 

[Demon-oni]

Mewtwo needs a lot to be anywhere near the top tiers.

More knockback on his moves in general would be nice. It's sad that his normal killzone on people is around 130% minus the few who actually do die before then via up throw or gimp. His back and up throws could use a bit more knockback as well. I want people to fear getting grabbed by Mewtwo even more than by Ness.

For his specials, his shadow ball shouldn't be so jagged. I like it being a little jagged to screw with perfect shielding, but sometimes it straight up misses. Up b is fine, maybe disappearing faster would be nice though.
Side b has two main things I want to be done about it. 1. Reflected projectiles actually hit. 2. Connecting the attack doesn't leave ME to punishment. I don't care how, tech chase, puts them too far away, i'm just sick of people putting a bair in my face cuz i did something right...
Down B... 1. More range 2. Doesn't have to hit the EYES to work 3. Hit box is lower so i can hit shortiez.

He does need more weight and a tad bit more range on certain attacks. Oh, and he needs a spot dodge that isn't ABSOLUTE %$#^. With that, Mewtwo I think can hit at least high tier on the melee tier list...

Edit: Also, make it so DIing forward throw isn't a good idea against M2.
I would go into specifics for every move, but I'm not sure this is the place for it.

 

[Archangel]

Pichu needs to be slightly better then everyone else in the game...he's earned it.

 

[hotdogturtle]

mewtwo was a good character done wrong. I was so dissapointed when I unlocked him, I mean he's mewtwo dammit!

I agree. His statistics and move properties made no sense and didn't match the way they looked like they should behave. That's the main reason he was a bad character, not a flawed moveset like some other characters. These are all the kind of things that can be fixed with hacking, though, assuming that we get a usable model and good animators.

For his specials, his shadow ball shouldn't be so jagged. I like it being a little jagged to screw with perfect shielding, but sometimes it straight up misses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=capoDHrZJng#t=7m21s