Project M Social Thread

[Archangel]

I see, that sounds interesting as far as it doesn't get too broken.

It shouldn't be a problem. If anything it will make him more of a nit pick character in the air but once he gets start should have the same effectiveness as juggling except you'll have to rush down the opponent to hit them again. Think of it like the continued attacks in DBZ Budokai tenkaichi 3 or however it's spelled. Assuming you've ever seen it also lol.

ANYWAYS Dark Sonic has all the notes from that discussion.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Uh, I'm not really sure how the term airchasing caught on so much.

But to simplify.

The idea is that Pit's new side B will simply put him into his glide instantly (and a fast glide too.) I was discussing giving him fairly low angled aerials (nothing crazy) that have little aerial cool down so that he could use glide to chase them. The idea was to keep his combos low enough to the ground so that he wouldn't be to vulnerable if something went wrong, and use glide attack or dair at the end to "reset."

Yes, it's basically making Pit focus around glide combos and strings (I doubt gliding in between hits would allow him to produce that many legitimate combos, but people forget how **** having disjointed hitboxes is. It hardly matters that they're not in hitstun when you can cover every option they have with a single sequence).

The term "air chasing" came about because while discussing this little aspect of putting quick successions of strings together, spam arrows related it to tech chasing...but in the air.


atm there hasn't been any work in this direction specifically (the side B instant glide already exists in another experimental build however)

 

[Grim Tuesday]

But why should samus be able to fire a missile (only when landing) that might as well have been fired from her ankles? Better for her, worse for low crouching characters. Better for the game in general? Subjective. I chose the logical argument, but I don't play spacies or samus.

All of those techniques which are made impossible or difficult by Brawl's landing detection add competitive depth to the game.

If you can't do them, the game loses competitive depth.

There is no subjectivity about it, you are objectively wrong.

 

[GreatFalco]

Fine, I get the point about airchasing, and looks amazing.
Under the right conditions it could be used to drag the opponent offstage and then I can easily imagine using the low-angled aerials among his multi jumps to gimp the rival to the low boundaries and recover safely with his UpB.

I really like the idea, Pit has a very good recovery, at least in terms of distance, which isn't very common under melee gravity. You should make this his advantadge and force him to gimp out as hell.

 

[Xinc]

How on earth are you guys still talking at 1:11 AM?

Where's ...erm... the side b glide to see? Curious

 

[Grim Tuesday]

How on earth are you guys still talking at 1:11 AM?

Different time zones.

 

[Rikana]

How on earth are you guys still talking at 1:11 AM?

Where's ...erm... the side b glide to see? Curious

It hasn't been shown.

 

[Zack™]

ehy guys i'm new here and i've some questions for you all ^^

1. will P:M be available for pal users?
2. will the pal users can change the music of each stages? (or textures ect...)
3. how can i play the demo? i have a pal wii and i know the demo is ntsc only but... there's a way to play it in my situation? if i succeed to run an ntsc copy of brawl, how can i insert the code?

i hope someone ask soon

PS: sorry for my bad english ^_^"

 

[Rikana]

1. will P:M be available for pal users?
2. will the pal users can change the music of each stages? (or textures ect...)
3. how can i play the demo? i have a pal wii and i know the demo is ntsc only but... there's a way to play it in my situation? if i succeed to run an ntsc copy of brawl, how can i insert the code?

1: Eventually I'm assuming. The main focus is NTSC-U at the moment so its better you get an NTSCU version.
2. I'm assuming PAL users can already do that.
3: The codes can be ran through Riivolution or Gecko OS if you're using a disc method to load Brawl. It will not work if you don't have an NTSCU copy of Brawl.

 

[leelue]

I suppose I should restructure my opinion that having LD fixed should not be a necessity.
Most if not all of the things LD gave us in melee are fairly arbitrary bonuses given to characters who arbitrarily were able to exploit them. Take samus and the missile, or the low level lasers for example. The advantages gained by these characters in particular aren't universally applicable to every character who should theoretically be able to use them. I haven't seen link throw a boomarang at ground level (it may have happened without my knowledge, I admit). I haven't seen luigi throw a fireball from his "feet" (again, maybe I missed it).

in addition, I think the major reason why this concept is so attractive to so many is because it existed in our favorite game. One could make the argument that any random (but useful) tactic that doesn't exist in reality would receive similar support if it had the same benefit of being in melee. For example, let's assume that a few characters were able to cancel the conclusion of their Fairs by double jumping during the startup time. DK, ganon, the links, and a few other characters would love it. It would increase the depth seen in our game. But since no precedent exists, we don't care. Given more time, I could invent more useful but seemingly random advantages that would play well and increase the skill curve, but to what ends?

Don't get me wrong - I love melee to death, and I love project m already. I'm only here to facilitate discussion on the belief that just because something existed and was functional in melee, it should not be given an automatic inclusion. It is this train of thought that made me think Super Wavedashing should have been left out as well; it can be useful, but it's completely arbitrary, nonsensical, and if it had never existed by what I assume is a mistake (most benefits accrued by LD I admit probably were not mistakes) , nobody would propose such a silly mechanic. LD is significantly less ridiculous, but I felt like showcasing the extreme end of the spectrum to illustrate my point.

 

[JCaesar]

Landing detection affects everyone. SHL and Samus's missile canceling are just easy examples to visualize. I'd argue that landing detection affects Ganon far more than it affects Falco currently. Falco can't hit a few crouches with his laser, but Ganon can't dair through platforms and has a lot of trouble doing aerials low to the ground, which is essential for his ability to fight short characters.

 

[leelue]

^^very true

I think I stated that I didn't mind this issue, since it made small characters feel small, but I definitely see the overarching merit in your point.

 

[GameStation aka C4?!]

dash dash miss the grab, Gwwaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh I'm back in melee again, a game where if that happens, it's gonna cost me a nice 27 damage.

 

[Rikana]

You also can't middle hop with Falcon without landing detection being fixed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuUckQQXG8I

I'm serious. You can't do that without landing detection.

 

[Zack™]

1. will P:M be available for pal users?
2. will the pal users can change the music of each stages? (or textures ect...)
3. how can i play the demo? i have a pal wii and i know the demo is ntsc only but... there's a way to play it in my situation? if i succeed to run an ntsc copy of brawl, how can i insert the code?

1: Eventually I'm assuming. The main focus is NTSC-U at the moment so its better you get an NTSCU version.
2. I'm assuming PAL users can already do that.
3: The codes can be ran through Riivolution or Gecko OS if you're using a disc method to load Brawl. It will not work if you don't have an NTSCU copy of Brawl.

thanks a lot for the info...

so i can't run a copy of brawl with those methods... i need an original copy ok...

about P:M... there's new videos? i'm following this project since the beginning and i'm so curious to see olimar and pit :D , also the return of a melee veteran ^^ (cause one of them will return right?)
will the pokémon have a new move in down-B ? i mean, if i choose squirtle only i don't wanna change him so i think is better have a new move ^^

 

[Ecks]

I got 2 questions
1 Can you still do usmash with the z button?
2 Can you grab items with cstick? I hate how sakurai made it impossible to not grab an item.

 

[Rikana]

thanks a lot for the info...

so i can't run a copy of brawl with those methods... i need an original copy ok...

You don't need an original copy. As long as you have an NTSCU copy.

 

[leelue]

C4 I lost your number. gimme

 

[IYM!]

Grabs items with Cstick? you can do that in Brawl?

 

[JCaesar]

There will be another Legion livestream tonight, probably around 8 or 9 pm EST. I'll post again when it starts.

It will at least be me, Thunderhorse, and Waffle, with possible guest appearances by Bandit, Count Kaiser, and maybe even Guy.

 

[Zack™]

You don't need an original copy. As long as you have an NTSCU copy.

umh, so i have to download an ntsc-u copy... i didn't know that ntsc is different to ntsc-u
sorry but i'm not so good at this theme ^^

@JCaesar: thanks for the info... just, i'm italian and i can't follow the stream so i wanna know if those videos will be updated in your/or others youtube's channel ^^

 

[leelue]

I know its purely greed, but if more videos could be uploaded to YouTube, I'd be supremely indebted. I cannot view the streams either.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

I'll see if we can save some good matches tonight.

 

[JCaesar]

I'm thinking you guys may be seeing some robot action on youtube soon

 

[leelue]

God, I love you guys

 

[Ecks]

Grabs items with Cstick? you can do that in Brawl?

You can grab an item with a cstick aerial. I was in a hurry and forgot to add that. >_>

 

[Winnar]

It's almost hard NOT to grab items out of the air in brawl :\

especially as kirby

 

[standardtoaster]

I know its purely greed, but if more videos could be uploaded to YouTube, I'd be supremely indebted. I cannot view the streams either.

That reminds me, I actually have some replays to record and upload.

 

[.Fade]

There will be another Legion livestream tonight, probably around 8 or 9 pm EST. I'll post again when it starts.

It will at least be me, Thunderhorse, and Waffle, with possible guest appearances by Bandit, Count Kaiser, and maybe even Guy.

Waffle as in HMW? What's he think of P:M so far?

 

[leelue]

and just like that standardtoaster became one of my favorite people.

 

[MonkUnit]

It's almost hard NOT to grab items out of the air in brawl :\

especially as kirby

Well duh. Kirby sucks.

 

[Cubone]

I'm thinking you guys may be seeing some robot action on youtube soon

Beep ya!

What was the whole reason behind hiding ROB videos to begin with? =o

 

[JCaesar]

Waffle as in HMW? What's he think of P:M so far?

No, VanillaWaffle. We're on the East Coast.

Beep ya!

What was the whole reason behind hiding ROB videos to begin with? =o

We weren't sure if he was ready. I made a few videos of him public a few months ago and he didn't get a very warm reception, but I've been tweaking and refining him since then, playing him against both top Melee and Brawl players (not just my own crew who are used to my playstyle), and I think I've nailed down a really good build for ROB (<3 limp **** gyro). So we'll see how it goes.

 

[abcool]

Question for the PMBR. Did u guys fix angled smashes with the c-stick? In melee if i am playing samus and i push the c-stick in a diagonal direction i would kinda slight angle my fsmash up or down. The stupid part was i could'nt push it to far up or down because then i would upsmash, but if i pushed it slightly up from left or right it would work. I know it was removed in brawl. I think kirby and falcon could angle there's aswell.

 

[Ulevo]

I think you've done a great job with ROB JCaesar. I'm not sure exactly what he has left to be touched up on, but had he been worked on a little sooner I'd say he would have fit right in with the demo cast. Looks great.

Other characters fit this description, like Bowser.

 

[.Fade]

Question for the PMBR. Did u guys fix angled smashes with the c-stick? In melee if i am playing samus and i push the c-stick in a diagonal direction i would kinda slight angle my fsmash up or down. The stupid part was i could'nt push it to far up or down because then i would upsmash, but if i pushed it slightly up from left or right it would work. I know it was removed in brawl. I think kirby and falcon could angle there's aswell.

I know it wasn't removed.

 

[abcool]

I know it wasn't removed.

Are you sure. The way i see it is like if i am on a slope and fsmash she would angle it down depending on the slopes direction. Now if i am standing on a straight platform and try to angle it down, it doesn't even register or she just does a fsmash... Unless it was a brawl+ glitch.

 

[Revven]

You can grab an item with a cstick aerial. I was in a hurry and forgot to add that. >_>

Here's the skinny:

We had tried about... a month ago (maybe two months ago) to only allow you to grab items while doing an aerial IF you pressed Z. Unfortunately, this came at the cost of many, many freezes (usually dealing with the tumble action). We have since focused our efforts elsewhere as it's not a major issue but it will be tried to be fixed again.

Also, realize that generally anything that involves fixing the c-stick is ridiculously annoying to deal with and we generally get frustrated (more importantly, shanus gets frustrated) trying to make such fixes. Not saying we won't attempt them (as we do) but they are not as high priority as some other things are (though do realize that we have fixed a lot of things about the c-stick currently, rest assured).

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Maybe you should go try doing it in regular brawl before claiming it can't be done there.

Also, I'm sure it's probably a stick sensitivity thing. I'm sure I remember reading somewhere they were fixing the sensitivity back to Melee levels. I don't remember where though.

 

[GP&B]

Of those things that you guys fixed, did you fix the annoying issue with the C-stick that requires it to be in neutral position before it can initiate any other actions (ie. aerials and smashes)?

Maybe you should go try doing it in regular brawl before claiming it can't be done there.

Also, I'm sure it's probably a stick sensitivity thing. I'm sure I remember reading somewhere they were fixing the sensitivity back to Melee levels. I don't remember where though.

Back when they found all the constants. In fact, you can go to the changes section on the P:M website and look at some of the sensitivities that were altered.