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Project M Social Thread

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BRoomer
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Execution barriers are a viable concern, and even Sirlin has written about why they should be avoided and how they degenerate gameplay.

That aside, just let it go. People are allowed to hold different ideals, if they don't want to play it then that's their choice. Since when did arguing ever change someone's mind anyway?
 

Anth0ny

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okay, chopped out most of MK26's stuff. However, it's very well written and I have a feeling it can and will be used once the thread gets going and ignorant people start posting dumb ****.

oh, and I got rid of the shot with spiderman :laugh:





Satoru Iwata said:
Well, I had considered what I would do if you [Sakurai] turned me down and decided that I would need to take the existing Smash Bros. title, Super Smash Bros. Melee for the Nintendo GameCube, and try to make it Wi-Fi capable while preserving as much balanced game play as possible in the event you didn’t want to get involved.
For those who recommend 'Just play Melee':



Bridge of Eldin, Castle Siege, Delfino Plaza, Distant Planet, Frigate Orpheon, Halberd, Lylat Cruise, Mario Circuit, Mushroomy Kingdom, New Pork City, Norfair, PictoChat, Pokémon Stadium 2, Port Town Aero Dive, Rumble Falls, Shadow Moses Island, Skyworld, Smashville, Summit, WarioWare, Yoshi's Island, 75m, FlatZone 2, Green Hill Zone, Hanenbow, Luigi's Mansion, Mario Bros., Pirate Ship, Spear Pillar, Hyrule Temple 64, Metal Cavern 64, Dreamland 64, new moves on old characters, game balance, 300+ full-length pieces of music, and the ability to hack the game to put everything from Melee into Brawl, gaining everything that made Melee great without losing anything that makes Brawl unique.

For those who don't plan on reading the website and will bash anything without bothering to learn about it: the demo has 14 characters and many stages. Rest assured that the full game will have 40+ characters, every stage from Brawl (including a bunch that have been edited to be more competitive), most of the ones that were removed from Melee, and even a few returnees from Smash 64. There is a difference between an unfinished demo containing a small selection of near-finished characters as opposed to a full, polished game.

For those who respectively disagree with what we're doing and recognize that this in no way, shape, or form affects them if they simply navigate to another window and put it out of their mind: Thank you for not being haters.

For those who are intrigued: Project:M is probably the most fun you can have with a Smash game, and that's certainly saying something. Every single person working on the project is here because we think we'll get something more out of this than we currently do with Brawl, Melee, or both. Furthermore, we love each and every one of you who gives this game a fair chance but decides against playing more. All we ask to anyone is that you don't, as the mantra goes, "Complain about games you haven't played." Rather, you can complain all you want after you try it. We're always open to constructive criticism (as long as you don't reiterate the same points 20 other people have made, that **** gets old fast) and our feelings will not be hurt if you say the game is not for you.

Masahiro Sakurai said:
"Melee is the sharpest game in the series," he wrote. "It's pretty speedy all around and asks a lot of your coordination skills. Fans of the first Smash Bros. got into it quickly, and it just felt really good to play."


Project M is a community-made mod of Brawl inspired by Super Smash Bros. Melee's gameplay designed to add rich, technical gameplay to a balanced cast of characters while additionally enhancing the speed of play. Project M employs new codes which seamlessly add in new, universal features to the entire cast to add technical variety to all characters.

[highlight]Project M is playable on ANY Wii, without any hardware modification, and even without any longterm software modification. All that is needed to get started is an SD card and a copy of Super Smash Brothers Brawl.[/highlight]

Project M hopes to achieve a game similar to Super Smash Bros. Melee in many respects. It does not, however, intend to be a 1:1 Melee clone. The following is a list of the main aspects of Super Smash Bros. Melee that inspired and have carried over into Project M:

1. A fast-paced game
2. with flowing, organic movement
3. where the player has a great degree of control over his character due to the technical skill that he's achieved.
4. The balance of offense and defense changes depending on the exact matchup and playstyle, but overall tends to favor offense slightly.
5. Offstage edgeguarding is risky but rewarding, while on-stage edgeguarding is safer but less rewarding due to ledge techs.
6. Recoveries generally require great skill to use, with the advantage usually being with the edgeguarding player, with some exceptions.
7. The combos are challenging and spontaneous, with anything longer than 2-3 hits requiring a knowledge of both characters' options and some degree of prediction and/or a deep understanding of the mental aspect of the game.



I do not play Smash competitively, will this still be fun for me?

[highlight]YES, this mod can still be very fun for non competitive players.[/highlight] Despite the competitive nature built around it, it has generated a lot of fun new ways for casual players to enjoy characters they played in Brawl. From new stages like Hyrule Castle 64 to completely redone characters like Snake you will find something to enjoy here as a casual player. Matches overall become a lot more fun and way different than how they were in Brawl.

Ultimately, this mod is made for all players, competitive or not. Melee was enjoyed by both demographics, and this is no different.

Is there a release date for this project?


As of now, no. A release date would more likely than not result in a rushed game that isn't ready for public release.

If I bug the heck out of you, can I playtest plz?
No.

Will Mewtwo/Roy/Pichu/Dr.Mario/Young Link be in this?
The Project M Back Room has taken the stance that no Melee characters will return unless they can be seamlessly added without replacing any character as well as have their own Character Select icon. Dantarion has been recently putting in a lot of effort into a "Clone Engine," however...

What about [Brawl-Exclusive Character X]? What have you done with him/her?!
If the character doesn't have a character page, then their moveset isn't finalized and more likely than not we haven't gotten around to working on fitting that character into the Project M environment yet. As of now, Lucas, Wario, and Snake have had the most work done on them. Asking about a random Brawl character typically leads to pointless discussion that will yield nothing of interest for the Project M Team.

Why are you making changes to Brawl-exclusive characters? What gives you the right to do this?

While it may seem a bit puzzling on why we are changing Brawl-exclusive characters so much it really shouldn't surprise many people. There are just some characters that rely too much on a few select moves or characters whose move set wasn't quite what was envisioned if the character was in Melee (for example Wario). Changing Brawl-exclusive characters brings richness to the gameplay and differentiates it from the original game so you're not just playing that same exact character and that same character has the same strategies; think of it as a new game. A big part of it is also to fit them within Super Smash Bros. Melee's physics, if they kept everything about themselves the same as in Brawl they would likely not feel very good or fit in at all making our goal impossible to reach if we left them alone.

Why are you replacing of all the stages? NOW THIS GAME IS JUST NO ITEMS, FOX ONLY FINAL DESTINATION HERP DE DERP

Settle down. Rest assured in the final release that all stages will (from Brawl) be playable as well as the newer stages. Newer stages include Saffron City 64, Dreamland 64, Metal Cavern, Dracula's Castle, a remade Hyrule Temple and many more! Giving new options is only beneficial, you shouldn't dismiss stages just because they lack hazards. New stages give a fresh feeling to the game and sets it apart from Brawl.

Although you've changed the engine to play like Melee, it still doesn't feel exactly like Melee. It's off a little. What gives?


Landing detection has not been edited as of the release of the demo. In Melee, landing detection is at the character's shins. In Brawl, it is at their feet. For example, Falco cannot shoot a jumping laser as close to the ground as he could in Melee.

Why do I see Melee models of characters and custom textures? Are these mandatory?
No. Project M comes standard with no custom textures. If you would like to customize your game, as seen in some of the screenshots below, head to Brawl Vault.

OH GOD, there has been a minuscule change to a Melee character. It isn't Melee, thus it is worse.
I'm gonna hit you.

I've come to the conclusion that I hate this project and everything it stands for. You guys should all just be playing Melee instead; this is Brawl. Is there anything I can do to stop you guys from making this?
No.



For a detailed list of General Changes (changes to the engine), click here.
For a breakdown of individual character changes so far, click here and on the desired character.



In order to play the game, you will need the following:

1) A Nintendo Wii
2) Super Smash Bros Brawl
3) An SD Card

Once again, no homebrew channel is required to play the game.

*step by step installation process will be here when the demo is released on February 7th*




Dreamland 64 was missing from Smash Bros for the first time in Brawl. It has returned in Project M.


One of the biggest disappointments in Melee was the absence of Saffron City as a throwback stage. It's back!


Hyrule Castle makes it's triumphant return to Smash Bros!


No items, Melee Fox only, Melee Final Destination. NOW THAT'S HARDCORE.


The beautiful Fountain of Dreams returns in Project M. Yes, they seriously didn't put it in Brawl. What the hell Sakurai.


Castlevania finally gets representation in a Smash Bros game! It's no Simon Belmont, but a Castlevania stage with rockin Castlevania music is better than nothing! *Will be available in the FINAL VERSION OF PROJECT M*


Remember the Metal Mario stage from Smash 64 with the kick *** music? **** yeah that ****'s back.



Project M Youtube Account
Sneak's Youtube Account
JCaesar's Youtube Account
Cubaisdeath's Youtube Account



The Official Project M Website
Brawl Vault (for pretty much all the custom textures, stages or music on the Internet.)

The Project M team:

Project Leader: Shanus
Lead Character Developments: SHeLL, Camelot, Strong Bad
Additional Coders: Dantarion, Yeroc, WindOwl, Almas, Standardtoaster
Character Design/Development: Shanus, Magus, jiang, Strong Bad, WindOwl, JCaesar, leafgreen386, Falco400, Plum, rPSI
Backroom Testers: Mango, Lucky, Lovage, Silent Wolf, KirbyKaze, unknown522, RaynEX, Amsah, Faab, BombSoldier, Captain Jack
Graphics/Menu Design: Orca, Guy, VectorAce
Stage Design: FrozenHobo, GameWatching, Mewtwo2000, Shadic
 

Crispy4001

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okay, chopped out most of MK26's stuff. However, it's very well written and I have a feeling it can and will be used once the thread gets going and ignorant people start posting dumb ****.

oh, and I got rid of the shot with spiderman :laugh:
Cool, it's much better. Small suggestions:

- "For those who don't plan on reading the website and will bash anything without bothering to learn about it haven't read the website:"

- I do not play Smash competitively, will this still be fun for me?
I'm not really into compeditive Smash, is there fun in it for me?

YES, this mod can still be very fun for non competitive players
YES, if you enjoyed Melee you'll likely have fun with Project M.

(These are mainly so they don't associate playing Smash competitively only so much as, well, tournament Smash. And so they feel invited, more or less)



I actually love the little quip about detractors closing their window and not being haters. I don't think it's unreasonable, presented in the way it is.
 

Anth0ny

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You really need to update the pictures you're using. Especially that FoD.
Is the new one out? I only see the one from December on Brawl Vault.

Regardless, I really don't think a group like GAF is going to be on our ass with stuff like "ZOMG FOD DOESN'T HAVE A TREE IN THE BG THIS MOD SUCKS". They'll probably be all like "Wow! They got FOD back! Crazy! Oh, and wavedashing is a glitch and people who don't play smash for fun are the scum of the Earth!"

You really need to like collapse that ****.
huh? ;)
 

PHD

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okay, chopped out most of MK26's stuff. However, it's very well written and I have a feeling it can and will be used once the thread gets going and ignorant people start posting dumb ****.

oh, and I got rid of the shot with spiderman :laugh:

"Project:M is probably the most fun you can have with a Smash game"

I think that should be the first thing in the introduction instead of the last. It would start the post off with a more positive tone instead of a combative one. If it really is the most fun you can have with a Smash game I don't think the first post describing it should sound so defensive. Maybe that's just me though.
 

Crispy4001

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Oh, and I don't think you should say that Snake is completely redone. Yeah, we realize the effort and changes. But someone over there might go HIS SPECIAL MOVES ARE ALL THE SAME THE OP IS A LIE once the demo is out.

Also I don't think you need to repeat casual player twice. It only reinforces it. Just take it out the second time.
 

MK26

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What about [Brawl-Exclusive Character X]? What have you done with him/her?!
If the character doesn't have a character page, then their moveset isn't finalized and more likely than not we haven't gotten around to working on fitting that character into the Project M environment yet. As of now, Lucas, Wario, and Snake have had the most work done on them. Asking about a random Brawl character typically leads to pointless discussion that will yield nothing of interest for the Project M Team.
"This demo is just a taste of what's to come. The 14 characters in the demo are all but completed and will be changed very little (if at all!) when the full game is released. The Project M team decided that the rest of the characters have not had enough work done to them to justify including them in the demo - rest assured that every character will be present in the full version."

Although you've changed the engine to play like Melee, it still doesn't feel exactly like Melee. It's off a little. What gives?

Landing detection has not been edited as of the release of the demo. In Melee, landing detection is at the character's shins. In Brawl, it is at their feet. For example, Falco cannot shoot a jumping laser as close to the ground as he could in Melee.
"Despite our best efforts, there are still a few things that have been resistant to editing. For example, when landing from a jump in Melee, most characters would not be considered 'on the ground' by the game until their feet were completely inside the ground and their shins touched it. This was changed in Brawl to the more sensible concept of landing when one's feet touch the ground. However, in a Melee setting, this change subtly but noticeably modifies the timing for some techniques, and so it is undesirable to have; the Project M coders have not been able to revert the change."
 

Msingh0

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Haha, I just spotted Mewtwo.
That's a textured lucario. his hands are still glowing blue.

Also, I haven't posted in atleast a year, but I'm really excited about this, and would like to thank the whole team for all their time and effort being put into the game!
Good Job guys, and keep up the great work! :)
 

MechaWave

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Will that Saffron City ever have those Pokemon appear again?

It's not the same without CHARMANDER!!.
 

Anth0ny

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Mewtwo texture is an easter egg =P

But seriously, the primary reason I used those screenshots was to show off the stages. Any old shot of a character won't really generate any hype, will it? GAF doesn't care about seeing Falco's Melee shine or Marth's slightly modified tilts/smashes.

Again, I don't really think the textures are offensive at all. They generate hype for people who didn't even know they could modify Brawl like that, and I've addressed that they aren't mandatory and don't come with PM. Just for decoration.

If you guys insist, I'll remove them. But can anyone hook a brotha up with some clean shots of the new stages? Someone has to have them handy :p
 

#HBC | Ryker

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Guess I'll bring this up again. You guys should see about All is Brawl supporting P:M. Get a front page post rolling, get a ladder and such, it would definitely promote the game among Brawlers.
Posted in the Staff Room on AiB. Hopefully we'll have your article.
 

Magus420

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"Despite our best efforts, there are still a few things that have been resistant to editing. For example, when landing from a jump in Melee, most characters would not be considered 'on the ground' by the game until their feet were completely inside the ground and their shins touched it. This was changed in Brawl to the more sensible concept of landing when one's feet touch the ground. However, in a Melee setting, this change subtly but noticeably modifies the timing for some techniques, and so it is undesirable to have; the Project M coders have not been able to revert the change."
I'd like to kill this widespread misconception now.

You don't land on your feet in brawl.

You land on a static point that has absolutely NO relationship to where the character actually is whatsoever. On a neutral fall it's usually in the same general location as your feet, but on something like Link's n-air where his body is positioned horizontally he will land (more like teleport to the floor) well before any part of his body even comes close to touching the ground. Melee's floor detection actually makes a LOT more sense as it's dynamic and is based on the character's bones to shape an environment collision area. Brawl has this area as well and uses it for walls and ceilings, but not floors. It instead detects floor collisions solely with the unrelated single non-moving invisible bone mentioned above (TopN to be specific).

 

GPDP

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i'd like to kill this widespread misconception now.

you don't land on your feet in brawl.

you land on a static point that has absolutely no relationship to where the character actually is whatsoever. On a neutral fall it's usually in the same general location as your feet, but on something like link's n-air where his body is positioned horizontally he will land (more like teleport to the floor) well before any part of his body even comes close to touching the ground. Melee's floor detection actually makes a lot more sense as it's dynamic and is based on the character's bones to shape an environment collision area. Brawl has this area as well and uses it for walls and ceilings, but not floors. It instead detects floor collisions solely with the unrelated single non-moving invisible bone mentioned above (topn to be specific).

SAKURAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

10sakuraaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis
 

Eternal Yoshi

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I'd like to kill this widespread misconception now.

You don't land on your feet in brawl.

You land on a static point that has absolutely NO relationship to where the character actually is whatsoever. On a neutral fall it's usually in the same general location as your feet, but on something like Link's n-air where his body is positioned horizontally he will land (more like teleport to the floor) well before any part of his body even comes close to touching the ground. Melee's floor detection actually makes a LOT more sense as it's dynamic and is based on the character's bones to shape an environment collision area. Brawl has this area as well and uses it for walls and ceilings, but not floors. It instead detects floor collisions solely with the unrelated single non-moving invisible bone mentioned above (TopN to be specific).

LMAO. Thanks Magus.
This WOULD explain why Gray Fox Lands strangely.

I would not mind the delaying of the demo if it means fixing LD.
 

GPDP

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So how long has this been known? I imagine Dantarion had all this in mind when trying to fix it, right?
 

Machiavelli.CF

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If LD can be fixed soon then I would love to wait for a later demo as well.
Maybe another character might be elegiable for the roster by then... maybe not... just being hopeful
 

Eternal Yoshi

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XRotN and YRotN Moves the whole character just as well as TopN(This applies to all Brawl Models), so I have faith that it will be fixed. If you delay the demo release to fix it, we will be cool with it.
 

MK26

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I'd like to kill this widespread misconception now.

You don't land on your feet in brawl.

You land on a static point that has absolutely NO relationship to where the character actually is whatsoever. On a neutral fall it's usually in the same general location as your feet, but on something like Link's n-air where his body is positioned horizontally he will land (more like teleport to the floor) well before any part of his body even comes close to touching the ground. Melee's floor detection actually makes a LOT more sense as it's dynamic and is based on the character's bones to shape an environment collision area. Brawl has this area as well and uses it for walls and ceilings, but not floors. It instead detects floor collisions solely with the unrelated single non-moving invisible bone mentioned above (TopN to be specific).

ooh

magus'd

"Despite our best efforts, there are still a few things that have been resistant to editing. For example, when landing from a jump in Melee, most characters would not be considered 'on the ground' by the game until their feet were completely inside the ground and their shins touched it. This was changed in Brawl to having a character land when a specific, unmoving, invisible point below the centre of his body touches the ground. Though this point is normally near where characters' feet are, it causes them to effectively teleport to the ground when their bodies are positioned horizontally (ie during Mario's bair or Link's nair). Beyond making little sense, this change subtly but noticeably modifies the timing for some techniques and is undesirable to have; however, the Project M coders have not been able to revert it."

Better?
 

Crispy4001

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I say there's no point in waiting, especially when a date has already been promised. It's a demo when the finished game doesn't exist. People will understand.

However, if a breakthrough is made on LD, I wouldn't mind there being a 1.1 version of the existing demo. Just to fix that, so people can go into the beta/final version accustomed to it.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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Posted in the Staff Room on AiB. Hopefully we'll have your article.
Gonna be using your OP with a small preface. If you have a problem with something like that, speak now or forever hold your peace. Gonna try and get the article up today.

Can someone PM me the modified OP without collapse tags as I don't want to go in and redo all the images and links in BBC code.
 

NoAh MenQui

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it's me NAMQ people btw, I like my new name :D it's still namq :p just gave it a very nice woot :p

hoping for Project M and MvC3 release!
 

Crispy4001

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Awesome work! Make sure you use the final version of it on GAF, Ryker.



EDIT: If you still have a minute to edit Anth0ny... could you change "probably the most fun" to "possibly the most fun" in the first paragraph. I'm nitpicking, so take that as it will.
 
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