Project M Social Thread

[twiblets]

Ness looks awesome now Im so happy. Just to say I really think he needs the ping sound on his bat. brawl+ gave him it, and it sounds so much better than the crack. Anyway this project looks amazing guyz can't wait to play it

 

[Ecks]

Actually brawl+ gave the ping sound to the tip of the bat and PM did the same thing. Dunno if they'll leave it like that.

 

[Revven]

Yeah, do you think its possible to make glancing blows register as hits? Phantoms and glancing blows are just dumb.

For something as small as phantom hits that don't really add anything to the game it would be a waste of coding effort.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Just a thought.

3 Versions of Final Destination.

Stages with 3 versions.

Replace Shadow Moses Island with FD, use a trigger code for Brawl and 64 Final Destinations with Melee as the default?

 

[Metal B]

Down B is good enough right now, trust me. Kirby as a whole right now is a really good character.

And I state once again that not every move needs to be useful. It affects balance, having a bad move or a "not useful move" is apart of what makes a character.

Yeah, if you wanna make a joke.
It would be a better design to give every move a meaning. Why not make the move an answer against some bad match-ups. So it would be useless against the most characters, but on the other hand have an important impact of a few hard opponents.

 

[Rikana]

There's no need. Characters can be good without every single attack being useful.

 

[Pen_island]

Kirbys down b isnt completely useless. If someones trying to hit you with a disjointed up air or something you could use your invincible down b to go through it. If actually you hit with it, your opponent would probably spend the rest of the match baiting your useless down b while your above him.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

I've wanted to share my thoughts on this for a while. I've played P:M with several friends who play Melee. And everybody has wanted to switch to Melee after playing P:M for a while. Even when I brought the game to a tournament and there were people who really enjoyed playing it P:M was left alone after a while. When switching between games I could have not helped noticing how Melee feels just so much more smooth and polished than P:M. I don't know if it's the LD, the graphics, the sounds or the animations but Melee just feels better to play and more solid. I have this fear that there is so much coding (in addition to LD) to do to make P:M feel as good to play than Melee that P:M will never reach that. I don't mean to discourage the team or anyone, I've just been wondering if anyone feels the same way because I haven't seen anyone bringing it up before. Don't get me wrong, I really like P:M and this project has been the main reason I haven't quit Melee completely yet, what the developers of this game have been able to pull off has amazed me time after time. I'm looking forward to see how this project develops in the future and I will be promoting P:M in my country. And yes I know that P:M isn't finished yet and there is still alot of work to do. In a nutshell, Melee feels better to play than P:M and it really bothers me because eventually people are going to play the better game. Does anyone else have similar thoughts?

 

[FireBall Stars]

Characters in Smash have few moves.

But the game engine compensates this by making the same move have different applications in different situations if it hits in different ways.

If you have a move for every situation it will throw away the bad matchups factor which is fundamental for good competitivity in smash.

Most moves labeled as "useless" aren't actually useless, it just has less or much less applications than most character's moves, it's a situational move that can't be used freely.

You don't want a thing like vBrawl Metaknight in PM right? Or a game full of them?

 

[Metal B]

There's no need. Characters can be good without every single attack being useful.

Yes, if you wanna give player the sense of discovery. Its the Magic: The Gathering philosophy to include bad cards, so that player have to learn the right way and to make a lot of money. But i'm sure people who play Project:M wanna, play it because of the balance. To this point the developer of P:M work on the complete roster and properly the don't need to change Kirby now. But in a future balance problem instead of changing the whole character, they could easily make a useless move useful in the problematic situation.
Hell if you really wanna have a useless move, then make it at least a funny move!

Edit: By the way is there a change list of the P:M Demo? Since the site is down, is there a different source?

 

[NeoZ]

Wall of Text

Maybe the aesthetics bring back bad memories about Brawl?

I, for one, don't like Brawl's SFX and it bothers me a bit when playing PM, but the game is so much fun that it doesn't make me wanna stop playing.

When finished, if they figure out the complicated stuff like LD, tethers, etc, it will probably be better than Melee.
At the very least, a bigger part of the cast(hopefully everyone, like they're planning) will be viable and that is a pretty big reason to play it.

 

[Rikana]

I've wanted to share my thoughts on this for a while. I've played P:M with several friends who play Melee. And everybody has wanted to switch to Melee after playing P:M for a while. Even when I brought the game to a tournament and there were people who really enjoyed playing it P:M was left alone after a while. When switching between games I could have not helped noticing how Melee feels just so much more smooth and polished than P:M. I don't know if it's the LD, the graphics, the sounds or the animations but Melee just feels better to play and more solid. I have this fear that there is so much coding (in addition to LD) to do to make P:M feel as good to play than Melee that P:M will never reach that. I don't mean to discourage the team or anyone, I've just been wondering if anyone feels the same way because I haven't seen anyone bringing it up before. Don't get me wrong, I really like P:M and this project has been the main reason I haven't quit Melee completely yet, what the developers of this game have been able to pull off has amazed me time after time. I'm looking forward to see how this project develops in the future and I will be promoting P:M in my country. And yes I know that P:M isn't finished yet and there is still alot of work to do. In a nutshell, Melee feels better to play than P:M and it really bothers me because eventually people are going to play the better game. Does anyone else have similar thoughts?

I feel the same. It's been brought up by many Melee vets actually. But I wouldn't look down on this project at all. Its an extremely huge step and they're trying their best to appeal to us Melee fans. Some people suggested to play on buffer 10 (1 frame of buffer) but I like to make it more realistic and play on buffer 0. But we're gonna have to sacrifice that bit of smooth gameplay for it. I do believe landing detection plays a role in it since it throws off the timing for many things (not by a lot but its enough to make a difference).

To be honest, in the end, I don't think PM can reach the level of Melee in terms of how smooth the gameplay can be, but like I said. I definitely wouldn't mind since PM offers a lot things Melee can't.

----

Anyways, I posted this on smashmods forum recently. Its about Ivy's upB. Just wondering what your thoughts are:

Picture Diddy's upB but on Ivy. Instead of jetpacks obviously, Ivy would use the bulb. Ivy will flip around vertically. Allow Ivy to charge with his upB (to make it different.. maybe allow Ivy to save his charge like how Samus can charge her shot?) and if you do, the bulb should slowly get bigger (this part of the animation might be tedious and useless but it will differentiate dAir and upB), or make it flash, allowing Ivy to cover more distance. As soon as the player releases uses her upB, her bulb will burst open with pollen. But, to make it different from Diddy's, restrict the angles of Ivy's upB.. say, something between 45 to 90 degrees? Ivy still doesn't lose the feature of "crappy recovery" but at least he gets one that seems more "useful[?]" and is a little more Melee-like.. although Melee doesn't have chargeable upBs.

What will be interesting is that you can use Ivy's upB as an offensive move too. If fully charged, you can probably make it have high knockback (maybe a rest-like knockback? And before you say that's broken, the fact that you have to find time to charge it is already difficult enough. And if you use it as a recovery, you lose the knockback.) Any other charge level should be a waste as an offensive attack. This will make the player think twice before using it. In the end, Ivy's upB functions quite differently than Diddy's because you can save his upB charge which makes the learning curve of upB much deeper.

 

[Ecks]

To me Melee feels more solid. I prefer pm because.

1.I main Ness...
2.Brawl characters.
3.A lot of new Stages
4.Customized content.
5.Balance.

It's probably the brawl animations, landing detection and camera (this plays a big factor believe it or not) throwing you off.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Maybe it the aesthetics bring back bad memories about Brawl?

I, for one, don't like Brawl's SFX and it bothers me a bit when playing PM, but the game is so much fun that it doesn't make me wanna stop playing.

When finished, if they figure out the complicated stuff like LD, tethers, etc, it will probably be better than Melee.
At the very least, a bigger part of the cast(hopefully everyone, like they're planning) will be viable and that is a pretty big reason to play it.

I don't have any bad memories of playing Brawl, heck I actually liked to play Brawl more than Melee while I played alone. Of course Brawl was a letdown for me, but I think this is no mental issue. I think it's because Melee is better than P:M is a fact just because Melee is a finished game while P:M isn't. If you mean "better than melee" in terms of content there is no question which game is better, but if you mean in terms of gameplay I fear that matching or surpassing Melee in this area will be a great challenge. I wish and hope that P:M can achieve this and surpass Melee but I have my doubts too It really bothers me that I find Melee better because I really like this project. I know this may sound rude and harsh but P:M still feels like Brawl with "patches" compared to Melee. It doesn't mean that it wouldn't be fun and feel good to play, it simply means that Melee surpasses it for the time being. I'm really hyped to see what happens in the future

It's probably the brawl animations, landing detection and camera (this plays a big factor believe it or not) throwing you off.

Darn I forgot to mention camera, it makes a huge difference to the feel. Maybe that's the reason why Melee feels faster too along with animations...

 

[Juushichi]

Even I notice just how seamless the animations are for Melee. But I enjoy smash in general. The hacks that I've played: BB, B-, PM and the regular games all offer different things and I like them all (some more than others, sure). But I think what P:M has to offer is something cohesive between every game and still fuels the competitive side of me.

I really hope that it catches on when finished. I kinda hope something can be done with 1-player, too, since it seems like this could be amazing on the whole.

Either way, I'm particularly excited for this project.

I have a question for the playtesters/devs, though. It was noted by multiple players that Marth/Jiggs/Falcon felt pretty different in the demo (for DI).

How do they seem to feel with the DI fixes you've got in place now?

 

[Ecks]

Yeah It's awesome how melee's camera zooms in on the action, it really adds to the fast-paced gameplay melee has. PM camera is however a MAJOR improvement over vBrawl's.

 

[Metal B]

If you have a move for every situation it will throw away the bad matchups factor which is fundamental for good competitivity in smash.

Most moves labeled as "useless" aren't actually useless, it just has less or much less applications than most character's moves, it's a situational move that can't be used freely.

Yeah, thats pretty much what i meant. That every move should have a meaning, even its only situational. A bad matchup is not fundamental for good competitively, it is unavoidable if you don't wanna have the same character in different dresses. But if you really have no need for a move, because the game is already balance (what will never happen), then at least give the move something interesting. Like a funny animation to let it become a taunt-move.

 

[Krautrock]

In any case, Kirby's down-b could be made marginally more useful by either increasing its shield damage or decreasing the startup time. Or both.

It would still be highly situational.

 

[MonkUnit]

Edit: By the way is there a change list of the P:M Demo? Since the site is down, is there a different source?

There is no change list for the demo. When we release the patch there will however be patch notes that will tell you what has changed from the demo to the patch. When we release the full game, there will be a complete change list that covers everything like you are asking for.

 

[DSP]

So, how's the general consensus on P:M Link?
I only really got experience with the matchup vs Ganon, which seems a lot better for Link right now. Ganny has a hard time touching Link if you play defensively and smart, and Link can do horrible things to Ganon out of a Utilt. utilt --> utilt --> bair --> reverse ftilt is beautiful.
From this perspective, Link seems a lot better overall and I'm very happy with him this far.
Thoughts on him?

 

[Vigilante]

I actually am starting to prefer PM to Melee. You have to realize that you've been playing a PM without Melee DI and without Melee Landing detection. This is why I felt the demo release was not a wise move, but now they can't really go back on it. People will obviously get bad preconceptions.

Project M will certainly surpass it in Multiplayer, but my only gripe are the one player bugs, since I always wanted to play subspace as a Melee character. Apart from this, I find enjoyement in characters I used to hate.

 

[MonkUnit]

You just have to avoid spikes and items in subspace. Although, I do remember having a crash when a crate randomly spawned....

BTW I have yet to see people upload Project M doubles matches. Are you guys going to get on this? D:

 

[Ecks]

The only problem with single player that I know of is the spikes crashing the game and classic mode crashing, but that's because rob has no special fall and he loves airdodging.

Edit: Oh yeah, Team healer and Allstar mode crash as well.

 

[Sir Combee]

I have a quick question about some of the stages. I know Mario Bros was replaced by Fountain of Dreams (which is awesome) but I was wondering what was going to happen to the other not so good stages. These stages being 75m, Flat Zone 2, and Hanenbow. Are these going to get replaced by more competitive stages? Or are they going to be "fixed" like how Wario Ware is now? Or is this still undecided?

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

I have a quick question about some of the stages. I know Mario Bros was replaced by Fountain of Dreams (which is awesome) but I was wondering what was going to happen to the other not so good stages. These stages being 75m, Flat Zone 2, and Hanenbow. Are these going to get replaced by more competitive stages? Or are they going to be "fixed" like how Wario Ware is now? Or is this still undecided?

I think that Hanenbow is genuinely unsalvageable. Even my cousins who only play Brawl when I bring my Wii over hate it. It's just a complete piece of crap. As for Flat Zone 2, I think that could be frozen to be a competitive stage. As for 75M, it would have to be severely decreased in size; as the stage is right now it only encourages camping.

 

[GP&B]

There are plans to use the Stage Expansion code to have all of vBrawl's stage roster, the competitively adjusted versions of those stages, and the new additions all at the same time. 75M, Flat Zone 2, and Hanenbow are pretty much unviable even with fixes.

 

[Onomanic]

So, how's the general consensus on P:M Link?
I only really got experience with the matchup vs Ganon, which seems a lot better for Link right now. Ganny has a hard time touching Link if you play defensively and smart, and Link can do horrible things to Ganon out of a Utilt. utilt --> utilt --> bair --> reverse ftilt is beautiful.
From this perspective, Link seems a lot better overall and I'm very happy with him this far.
Thoughts on him?

If for one really enjoy Project M Link. I love how much more utility Utilt has regained from Melee and how close it does come to some of his attacks, like Nair (<3). His spacing game has really improved thanks to the boomerang, new ftitl and l canceling, despite the loss of Zair but I easily got over that. Glad to see Link with a grab game again. It's been awhile, dthrow -> utilt combo. The problem match ups for me are Falco (60:40 I'd say), Sheik and Marth, and maybe G&W, from matches I remember off the top of my head. I can't wait for the completed roster!

In a nutshell, I'm happy with Link as well.

 

[MonkUnit]

I think that Hanenbow is genuinely unsalvageable. Even my cousins who only play Brawl when I bring my Wii over hate it. It's just a complete piece of crap. As for Flat Zone 2, I think that could be frozen to be a competitive stage. As for 75M, it would have to be severely decreased in size; as the stage is right now it only encourages camping.

Hanenbow is not salvageable. 75m could be replaced with Kongo Jungle 64 but even that is iffy on being competitive. If you froze Flat Zone 2 it would still be a walkoff... FZ2 is not salvageable.

 

[Vigilante]

I'm guessing they will be on the casual stages page. Well, to be honest, I think M2k's Peach Castle 64 stage should be added too. It's great

 

[MonkUnit]

I'm guessing they will be on the casual stages page. Well, to be honest, I think M2k's Peach Castle 64 stage should be added too. It's great

M22K*

Mew2King being a stage dev. LOL

Anyways, about those teams videos... D: Also, how many tournaments have had Project M as the main or side event so far?

 

[Xebenkeck]

Just a question about that actually, will you keep all the original stages on their normal stage files, because for someone like me who likes to put stage textures on, but i have no idea how to make them, so if STGSHRINE stays as temple P:M, tthen i have no clue how to put a texture on the normal Temple melee, which is over the STGOLDIN. Most stage textures are for their original Stage files. If you do it makes this a lot easier

If you don't i see the logic in having the competeive stages on the stage striking menu.

 

[Zef]

lol ill have P:M doubles uploaded soon, i dont wanna upload them w/ my internet

 

[C_Ferris32]

Sneak's Ness was looking mildly attractive in that stream recording.

/clockin' in

 

[Kati]

Has anybody tried superguzzi's hanenbow?

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/2548/al1003292310binout.jpg

 

[Onomanic]

I was messing around with Snake in training mode trying to figure out the timing for DACUS and failed horribly. However, I noticed that sometimes I did a reverse grab straight of the dash, like JC grab but turned around, momentum and all. Is this known?

It's reminiscent of the shield reverse grab but in P:M it lacks the momentum.

 

[ajajayjay]

M22K*
Also, how many tournaments have had Project M as the main or side event so far?

I've been holding off on bringing it to local nor-cal tourneys until the patch is released. would rather it leaves the best impression possible

 

[Dark Sonic]

I was messing around with Snake in training mode trying to figure out the timing for DACUS and failed horribly. However, I noticed that sometimes I did a reverse grab straight of the dash, like JC grab but turned around, momentum and all. Is this known?

It's reminiscent of the shield reverse grab but in P:M it lacks the momentum.

If you hit back during the startup of your dash grab you'll do a turn around grab (and as you're likely using up and Z to Dacus, you may just be hitting back and mistiming the Z command, getting the immediate turn around grab).

A lot of people don't know they could turn around grab this way actually. You should ingrain this method instead of hitting back and then Z, because by hitting grab first you can do turn around grabs during your inital dash (something not possible with the other method). This is less important in brawl where initial dashes are really short, but some melee characters have long initial dashes while simultaneously having an amazing turn around grab (Marth) and you'd be missing out.

 

[Juushichi]

OUGA's tournament on April 15th will have a PM side tournament.

 

[Sneak8288]

I was messing around with Snake in training mode trying to figure out the timing for DACUS and failed horribly. However, I noticed that sometimes I did a reverse grab straight of the dash, like JC grab but turned around, momentum and all. Is this known?

It's reminiscent of the shield reverse grab but in P:M it lacks the momentum.

lol playing spacies in melee makes everything so easy... i can dacus super easy in PM lol... its seriously not that useful tho, i would rather dash attack

 

[FireBall Stars]

For some reason when I try Dacus, most time the character does the boost with the Usmash to the left.

Even when I am dashing to the right.

I don't play any Dacus user characters so it doesn't matter, and it isn't even that useful anymore.