Project M Social Thread

[Sneak8288]

Can u guys put me back in the pmbr on smashmods. I have lucario stuff I want to talk about

 

[Sir Combee]

Is there a list somewhere of what stages are counterpick and banned for singles and doubles? I have mostly and idea of whats what but I would like to make sure.

 

[Vigilante]

I'm pretty bad at 4 stocking people because of my style but.. I mean if he's a playtester getting ***** like that.. doesn't it go against the principle of playtesting? lol.

Lol! I'm not one of the best players in the BR, I just provide good feedback. If you do kick my arse badly, I'll just learn from it. Of course, I,m trying to get better.

 

[MonkUnit]

Will it be streamed

 

[I R MarF]

I like G&W. I just like other characters better. And he does feel somewhat lacking compared to other characters currently.

G&W suffers from limited combo paths, kill moves, and an overall lack of appeal to push his metagame along. He really lacks any components that another character wouldn't already outclass him in.

However, I think I may have an idea that would make him more interesting and viable while still maintaining his unique qualities...

What if G&W was the lightest, easiest character to kill in the game, but in turn, had some of the highest KB and kill options in his moveset? Though high risk/ high reward is already commonplace in certain characters (Fox and Falco) and techniques (Jiggs's rest), I think it could be taken to a new level and could compliment G&W well if done right. He could be called Danger Watch.

 

[Wavebuster]

Honestly, you guys should change Zelda's side b because it's too campy for me (the one at genesis II). People in the west coast can camp lol. And plus if you happen to play in a zelda ditto, that can be very campy lol; a total of 6 din's fire will be on the screen. Good luck finding which fire is yours lol. I liked how the din' fire acted like a time mine, but that's just my two cents.

These aren't Dark Phoenix's phoenix feather projectiles, here. It's pretty easy to tell which ones are yours if you pay any attention at all to where you're setting them.

Zelda herself can just teleport past them and cancel them out with her reappear hitbox. It would only be campy if you both go out of your way to do it.

While you can try to camp with these or hit your opponent directly with them, they are much more effective set near your opponent with you trying to get them into the explosions. They are large and powerful when they explode.

They're not meant to be super good spam-happy projectiles on their own like say, Falco's lasers. You need to work them into your playstyle to really unleash their potential. Your opponent having to punch them out is of little concern to them if you attempt to camp, but would be threatening if you are near them as they do so. They're not very effective if set quickly either due to how small they are then.

tl;dr There's a lot more you could be doing with the experimental fireballs if you understand how to set them and trap your opponent if they allow you to set multiple mines.

 

[Vigilante]

I want to stream it, but reccordign and stream might be too much for this ancestor of a computer. I'll make reccordings a priority.

 

[MonkUnit]

Oh ok. That's fine too. :D

 

[Vigilante]

My mother threw a fit about me inviting people over, so next time I do, I might not do it at my home.

Maybe the Internet will be better

 

[FireBall Stars]

This reminds me to buy another capture card soon.

Quite a time with the alpha build and no videos yet, it's a little disappointing.

 

[drsusredfish]

I gues i'll give my 2 cent about zelda and her dins fire. to me the demos dins are beter than the new dins. the fast pace at which the demo dins can be put out are best for controling a space since the opponent can't completly tell when the dins will explode. The enemy doesn't have to be as catious when approaching but since you are able to jump after the din is set so you aren't left open with an aggresive opponent. the demo dins is also a good movement option. Land canceled dins with B-reversals thrown in is a good way to stay moble elusive and still have a timed hit box out to help keep the enemy in check. The timer mines may be more dificult to hit but they serve a better purpose in that they can get the opponent to move to where you want you just have to predict how the enemy will move. the only bad thing about the demo dins is they are clankable and reflectable but that makes them balanced

The new dins are so slow, fast opponents can be half way acroos the stage by the time you get one dins set and are able to move again. with the new dins you have to have some distance betwen you and the oppent for them to be usable and effective. you can trap the enemy in a wall of fire but the set up takes too long. So they realy are just a camping tool with that said their set speed may not even make them a good camping tool. The main redeming factors of the new dins is the long lasting hitbox they combo into each other, and the hit box is instant.

I think the best way to make her more balanced, if you think the demo dins is too strong, is to add longer cool down times to her smash attacks, maybe make her run slower since she has the teleport movement option, or add a little more knockback growth to her nayrus love to make it a little easier to DI out of at higher percents.

 

[krackizwak]

I think the best way to make her more balanced, if you think the demo dins is too strong, is to add longer cool down times to her smash attacks, maybe make her run slower since she has the teleport movement option, or add a little more knockback growth to her nayrus love to make it a little easier to DI out of at higher percents.

I whole heartily disagree. That is just going to weaken Zelda. Attacking her smashes, tilts, or god forbid her air game would be just take her down to the lower tiers. Thanks to the work of the PM team, Zelda is finally getting good. Yeah, she has become much better with stuff like her Fair being a knee on roids ( Bair aint to shabby neither) and the oh so annoying land cancel Naryu. These things though aren't putting her on top, she doesn't need other stuff to balance out Din's which isn't a Game breaker anyway. Experimental Din's should stay, and maybe even get a speed up.

On another note, Are the pokemon's Down B's restricted to ground use? I know Charizard is, but I haven't seen the others. Sorry if this has been asked before.

 

[Revven]

We're not open to discussing the other pokemon that were apart of Pokemon Trainer.

 

[ajajayjay]

i didn't try zelda at genesis, but from what I've seen she does not need nerfs. experimental dins seems too slow and small to pose much of a problem.

 

[kaizo13]

i'm not saying Zelda needs nerfs.....i'm just tryna point out that the difference between the old and new dins greatly affects her playstyle, and to me the old dins feel alot more "Melee". (fast paced/ aggressive / not campy)

 

[drsusredfish]

i'm not saying Zelda needs nerfs.....i'm just tryna point out that the difference between the old and new dins greatly affects her playstyle, and to me the old dins feel alot more "Melee". (fast paced/ aggressive / not campy)

He gets what im saying.

@krackizwak

The nerfs i suggested wouldn't be drastic and i wouldn't dare nerf her air moves. but if the new dins had the old dins speed that would be really broken.

 

[Kazyx]

G&W suffers from limited combo paths, kill moves, and an overall lack of appeal to push his metagame along. He really lacks any components that another character wouldn't already outclass him in.

However, I think I may have an idea that would make him more interesting and viable while still maintaining his unique qualities...

What if G&W was the lightest, easiest character to kill in the game, but in turn, had some of the highest KB and kill options in his moveset? Though high risk/ high reward is already commonplace in certain characters (Fox and Falco) and techniques (Jiggs's rest), I think it could be taken to a new level and could compliment G&W well if done right. He could be called Danger Watch.

I personally like this idea. It also makes sense as G&W is paper-thin, so he'd be super easy to send flying away if he were real, as pretty much a simple gust of wind from a door opening will send a newspaper sliding down the bus aisle.

Due to his paper-thin stature, it also makes sense to make make his attacks hurt even more than currently, as papercuts, at least the ones I've had, can either hurt like all hell or you won't even notice it until it's bleeding excessively. I've had more the second one personally, but I've had my fair share of *slice* "OW! Sun on the beach!" from cardboard, printer paper, and even paper bags.

Also, the name "Danger Watch" sounds kind of catchy.

 

[SHOTTYGURU]

so to add my 2 cents about G&W in P:M.

Im not a G&W main but i do play him alot against some friends who play mostly falco fox marth sheik ETC...in the demo and honestly he puts up a great fight against these characters has great keep away Dtilt=amazing but i do wish he would have kept the fishes (his brawl NAIR) and bacon is good againt shffl *****s. I think he would be more of a fav if people gave him a chance i **** with him thats the reason i say this but i havent played aganst anyone but friends i guess if a tournament ever comes to the midwest area i could show some things he is capable of.

 

[Shore Top]

i'm not saying Zelda needs nerfs.....i'm just tryna point out that the difference between the old and new dins greatly affects her playstyle, and to me the old dins feel alot more "Melee". (fast paced/ aggressive / not campy)

i agree on this point.

 

[Vigilante]

To be honest, the new Din can be used agressively, but it requires great timing. Ryoko was able to really use it well. Just saying.

 

[K Balls]

Nice way to put it Kaizo13. Everyone wants a fast paced game and that's how din's fire was like in the old demo to me.

 

[_Kadaj_]

yo I was playing the most recent build last night. and ganondorf is broken as ****. easily top tier. nerf this mother ****er.

also, the teching window on tripping is way too long, u should only be able to tech at the start, not like a full second after youve been tripped lmao. its just brainless then makes nanners useless...

-stingers

 

[kaizo13]

lol i was like.....what...the...

and then i read "-stingers"


Edit: ....and just incase u weren't trollin, how is Ganon "broken as ****"?

 

[_Kadaj_]

i wasnt trolling, not everything i say is a troll =[

ganon's got WAY more speed and power, and his recovery's like way harder to gimp then it was in melee. and side B *****, tech chases too well, you can just react to a lot of characters and hit them. they took a high tier character and made him way better lol, its ridiculous

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

you know what's ridiculous? gas prices! can i get a yeh yeh from my fellow californians

 

[kaizo13]

the only thing i agree with, is his recovery being a little too safe. the uppercut hitbox should be reduced a bit imo.

Edit: yeh yeh

 

[I R MarF]

you know what's ridiculous? gas prices! can i get a yeh yeh from my fellow californians

Actually, we CT'ers got it the worst.

http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/125957314.html

I personally like this idea. It also makes sense as G&W is paper-thin, so he'd be super easy to send flying away if he were real, as pretty much a simple gust of wind from a door opening will send a newspaper sliding down the bus aisle.

Due to his paper-thin stature, it also makes sense to make make his attacks hurt even more than currently, as papercuts, at least the ones I've had, can either hurt like all hell or you won't even notice it until it's bleeding excessively. I've had more the second one personally, but I've had my fair share of *slice* "OW! Sun on the beach!" from cardboard, printer paper, and even paper bags.

Also, the name "Danger Watch" sounds kind of catchy.

Thanks for liking my idea. I also thought Danger Watch was catchy haha.

 

[drsusredfish]

isn't G&W already the lightest fighter in the game?

 

[Mr.Pickle]

i wasnt trolling, not everything i say is a troll =[

ganon's got WAY more speed and power, and his recovery's like way harder to gimp then it was in melee. and side B *****, tech chases too well, you can just react to a lot of characters and hit them. they took a high tier character and made him way better lol, its ridiculous

They ripped character data straight from melee, so that would mean he is just as fast and just as strong as he was in melee. Also, you can react as well to his side b tech chase, he doesn't have any move that covers every possibility, and finally ganon is mid tier, been that way for a while.

 

[MonkUnit]

Tech in place - Dtilt, Dair, etc
Techroll forward - Wizkick
Techroll backwards - SideB or turnaround wizkick
Don't tech - Dtilt, Dair, etc

IIRC That's what you can do. Haven't played Ganon in a bit, so idk.

 

[CORY]

in the demo, i'm pretty sure it's:
tech backwards: overb behind you
anything else: wizards foot

wizards foot too good!

 

[JCaesar]

That's still how it is.

 

[CORY]

that's how it should always be : D

 

[Wavebuster]

Bear in mind that this particular version of Din's Fire is still being fine tuned and stress tested for viability in different levels up play and different match ups. If it is genuinely underpowered, it will not remain that way. Of course, knowing how to use it to great effect also helps in judging it, and not many people have grasped the concept of how to use them to their potential.

To be frank, Zelda doesn't need any projectile assistance to fight her foes if they are already in close range. Her priority and Nayru's Love both cover her there already (grounded Nayru's has invul extended to first attack frame, meaning it can counter almost anything if you use it at the right time). Zelda always has been a pain to fight if you take her on aggressively, even in Melee, and it was certainly not thanks to the Din's Fire she had then.

What Zelda needs most is a method for to discourage enemies camping her, and Zelda having the opportunity to set enormous, powerful mines that need to be more directly dealt with is a pretty effective deterrent. She can generate threat by simply being near them as you prepare more direct assaults against your opponent, which can lead to being able to combo into and out of these. The demo Din's didn't instill any sense of urgency to get away from them, and they are on a predictable timer. If you as the user can tell when they will explode, why on earth would you assume your opponent can't?

You can obviously just spam and camp with these fireballs, but you have a lot more going for you if you are able to use them aggressively or in a setup. The same can be said of: Peach's turnips, Falco's lasers, Samus's missile, both Link's bombs, Snake's grenades/bombs, Sheik's needles, ZSS paralyzer and many more. Just because camping is immediately obvious with such a projectile doesn't mean it's the best thing you can do with it.

If you're complaining about how they are too small to pose a threat, know that they have greatly increased control for a reason, and are not meant to be overly effective if you just set them right in front of you quickly without sending them a decent distance.

 

[Giygacoal]

Were there any complaints about Meta Knight being broken? The subject of him has been suspiciously quiet.

 

[hotdogturtle]

They ripped character data straight from melee, so that would mean he is just as fast and just as strong as he was in melee. Also, you can react as well to his side b tech chase, he doesn't have any move that covers every possibility, and finally ganon is mid tier, been that way for a while.

That's exactly the point. He's exactly like Melee Ganondorf (who was not bad) but with several buffs. That makes him really good.

 

[nawgui]

Bear in mind that this particular version of Din's Fire is still being fine tuned and stress tested for viability in different levels up play and different match ups.

Bear in mind that this particular version of Din's Fire

Bear in mind

Bear

But in all seriousness, I feel that people are jumping to conclusions too soon with the experimental build, as stated, they are alot more you can do then just camp with it and genesis vids (if there are any with her) will most likely yield more creative uses. It may receive some tweaks if its lacking any feel of melee, and if not they may just revert it back to the original demo din's, but overall it should be what makes zelda most effective.

 

[Strong Badam]

stingers prolly couldn't adapt to defeat an ok ganondorf player. since it's possible to change him, the first john that comes to mind is "he's broken, nerf him." Falco & Sheik still beat Ganon
happens to the best of us.

 

[bleyva]

Maybe I'm just crazy but in a recent stream I seem to recall Wolf's lasers having a much slower speed.

Is there a reason for this? Or am I just completely imagining things?

 

[melon]

G&W suffers from limited combo paths, kill moves, and an overall lack of appeal to push his metagame along. He really lacks any components that another character wouldn't already outclass him in.

For me, the main appeal of using G&W in melee is how hilarious he is and how much he can annoy other players - he's the ultimate troll character. Chain grabbing from every throw; attempting to combo into a "9" hammer for the lulz; the awesome pan spike; freezing, burning, or electrocuting you at random with his hammer; pulling an umbrella/turtle/flame/hammer/bacon out of nowhere; even the annoying way he runs makes up for his terribleness in Melee for me.

What if, aside from the obvious buffs he's getting (like the ability to l-cancel all aerials), his character in Project M was developed to enhance these....trollish qualities? Subtle things, I mean. For example, what if one of his taunts was a weak semispike? Not too broken, but tauntspike to dropzone fair would be a hilarious signature edgeguard.

Also, in Melee, G&W's "7" hammer normally drops a food item, but since everybody plays with items off, it doesn't. In P:M, could the "7" hammer just heal G&W 3-5% instead?