Project M Social Thread

[Mr.Pickle]

I'd say the opposite. A single character having a super-meter seems like it fits more than a single character having an quality which completely ignores the normal laws of Smash physics. The EX system only affects specials, anyway, so just imagine it as a quality of Lucario's specials, rather than of Lucario as a whole. Compare it to any other charge move, it's just a new way of charging, and is shared between different attacks. As opposed to OHCs, which completely changes the way Lucario is played in a manner akin to Ice Climbers.

That's not to say I'm against the OHC system, I think it's a fantastic idea, and will lead to new, exciting realms of gameplay, and more technical combos than ever before imagined. The point is, if we stick to only what we deem "Smash-like," we won't go anywhere, since modding wasn't "Smash-like" until someone started doing it. Rather, we should stick to what "we-like."

Plus, it fits really well thematically (read: is a pun). Lucario is Steel/Fighting type, so he's based on Street Fighting. Who's with me on referring to the supers as EXP Cancels?

See this is where our opinions differ, first of all I don't think that ohc isn't that far from the realm of smash, it seems like it has its roots in moves like fox's shine, which essentially allows you to cancel a move into another move, or moves with IASA, which allow you on a certain frame to cancel into another move. As for the whole charge argument, I'll have to disagree on that as well. It just seems a little to easy to get without that much of a risk involved.

I think its quite silly that people think this character needs a super meter to be good, if you're having trouble landing a combo...then get better at landing combos. Like I said before I don't have a problem with unique techs, a have issues with a mechanic unheard of in smash being given to one character when its unnecessary.

Also I think people are kinda jumping the gun a bit...I'm not making a big deal about this. I'm just stating my opinion about a character, I mean I'm not being way to argumentative here lol, just seeing what everyone else thinks about it while stating my own opinion

*edit* Basically what my argument boils down to is this, lucario's super meter, while in all honesty is a good idea and everything, is completely unnecessary while he has ohc. If he was similar to how he was in vbrawl, I could see this actually working, but as it stands right now, he is already a very unique, well balanced, and good character.

 

[Strong Badam]

you lack experience playing the character. we specifically made landing combos difficult with Lucario due to his high combo potential, as well as to make his supers necessary to be used to compete at a high level. it'd be silly to give him options that aren't necessary for him to do well; that'd be clearly imbalanced.

 

[Cubelarooso]

Shine is a B-move, and can be jump canceled at all times.
I've always found the idea of IASA a bit contrived; in my mind, if there's a point after which an animation may be interrupted (usually after the hitboxes are gone, too), then the move might as well be considered over. It's not really cancelling anymore than a jab cancels an idle position, so we'd have to call the wait animation one huge IASA. But anyway, all characters have some IASA, and they never change.
With OHC, it's not just a non-B move being cancelled, it's his whole moveset, and it's only under specific conditions, and following a specific hierarchy, and it's only on Lucario. Heck, it's unique enough to be considered a "system."

On the other hand, being easy to charge doesn't make supers any different than any other chargeable B-move. Wario's waft is charged just by existing. As is Charizard Flamethrower, Bowser's Fire Breath, ROB's laser…
Charging is actually something that Smash is just filled with, to a greater extent than most other figheters, even. The super-meter is certainly Smash-like.

But, like I said, none of that matters. What matters is that it's cool, fun, new, competitive, and makes sense.


And we're not jumping on you or making a big deal, we're just stating our opinion (and facts) of your opinion. Like trying new things, discussion is how progress is made.


Falcon's knee easter egg is unnecessary, but I don't see you complaining. I think you meant superfluous, which it is not, because it adds to the joke (and competition and all that jazz).

 

[Mr.Pickle]

I admit I have inexperience in playing this character, but I have observed the matches he has been in very closely, so I can obviously see the point in giving him difficulty landing a combo, but I'm having trouble understanding how he needs something as powerful as a super meter to compete well with the high tiers, when he already has a very solid character design.

*edit* @Cubelarooso- With the ohc to shine comparison I was trying to make the point that while shine is just one move and ohc applies to his entire moveset, it still shares some similarities to things already existing in smash. Making it, although very extreme, something that can fit in smash.

I'll admit I was a bit defensive with the whole making a big deal comment, but people take things the wrong way on here, especially on this thread, and I just wanted to make myself clear that I'm harmless.

And why would anyone complain about falcon's knee taunt, if anything we should map more taunts to his knee!

 

[Sneak8288]

I admit I have inexperience in playing this character, but I have observed the matches he has been in very closely, so I can obviously see the point in giving him difficulty landing a combo, but I'm having trouble understanding how he needs something as powerful as a super meter to compete well with the high tiers, when he already has a very solid character design.

he is super easy to punish if you don't use ex cancels after alot of things

 

[Cubelarooso]

I was saying that the OHC is less similar to the things you listed than the supers are to other chargeable B's, and thus are OHC is less Smash-like. Just for the sake of argument, because I like arguing.

And everything should be mapped to Knee.

 

[Cyan_Blau]

Lol that doesn't make any sense either, did anyone read/understand what I posted earlier? A move that is unique to that character isn't bad....I swear some of these comparisons are just outlandish.

For some reason I just have to ask you who or what you mean with "outlandish"?

------------

Another point is that these people posting about supermeters don't know that most time multiple FS usings kill the game.

That's why this guy didn't understand is anyway, that a super gauge will not be supported for now.

The most developers on P:M are (if they are) busy with fixing some bugs...

At the moment people would think: "It's an endless game!", but who else than the best developers among Super Smash Bros., who are interested in rebuilding SSBM on Bralw, would end this? - Could you? - I could not!

The issues has to be fixed anything else was, is and still will be a good inspiration, but for now ... nothing more.

For me the landing issue is in second order beside that fact that there are many other things which make this game actually not floating to the player.

But at all the demo has the best conditions to show us how a great work they did and they ever will do! - Thanks God for these guys, because many people forgot that there has to be something more than being busy with school and career.

AX

 

[Mr.Pickle]

he is super easy to punish if you don't use ex cancels after alot of things

Isn't that kinda of the point since he is so ridiculous when he actually gets a hit, but what exactly is super easy to punish about him?

*edit* @Cubelarooso- I'd agree with you if the only thing he got was the gigantic aura sphere, but he gets all kinds of crazy abilities from it, like I think he is able to cancel into any move after he uses his new down b, which is very badass by the way, but don't quote me on that cause I'm not entirely sure, just chalk it up to some crazy ****.

@Cyan_Blau- When I said outlandish I meant any of the following: silly, ludicrous, foolish, not making any sense, and cooky.

 

[VicViper]

Has the silliness of Sudden Death been addressed?

It would definitely be convenient to be able to just go ahead and run it back instead of having to reset.

 

[Sneak8288]

Isn't that kinda of the point since he is so ridiculous when he actually gets a hit, but what exactly is super easy to punish about him?

*edit* @Cubelarooso- I'd agree with you if the only thing he got was the gigantic aura sphere, but he gets all kinds of crazy abilities from it, like I think he is able to cancel into any move after he uses his new down b, which is very badass by the way, but don't quote me on that cause I'm not entirely sure, just chalk it up to some crazy ****.

@Cyan_Blau- When I said outlandish I meant any of the following: silly, ludicrous, foolish, not making any sense, and cooky.

He actually isn't that ridiculous when he gets a hit, you can DI out of alot of combos to limit the amount of hits and at low percents the starters get CCed. Lucarios recovery isn't too great either unless you burn meter to make it safe and have you not seen how slow the spirit bomb is? You just throw an Fsmash or something and it will cancel it out

 

[Mr.Pickle]

He actually isn't that ridiculous when he gets a hit, you can DI out of alot of combos to limit the amount of hits and at low percents the starters get CCed. Lucarios recovery isn't too great either unless you burn meter to make it safe and have you not seen how slow the spirit bomb is? You just throw an Fsmash or something and it will cancel it out

Well a lot of characters have an unsafe recovery, and his doesn't even seem that bad, so I don't see why he should be able to cover his *** like that. As for the spirt bomb thing, it doesn't matter if its slow, its the size of the move that makes it crazy, in fact with it being so slow it stays out forever, so it can be used to force people into some really ****ty situations.

 

[Revven]

Has the silliness of Sudden Death been addressed?

It would definitely be convenient to be able to just go ahead and run it back instead of having to reset.

We do not have the interest in altering how Sudden Death activates when the current rules work just fine as it is.

 

[shanus]

Save your judgements on lucario until you play him in the next version - then we can have a more informed conversation

 

[FireBall Stars]

Also, never forget about SDI.

 

[jalued]

Save your judgements on lucario until you play him in the next version - then we can have a more informed conversation

I don't mean this disrespectfully shanus, you all have done amazing work so far, but its been about 6 months since the demo was released, and we are all growing impatient for the "patch". I understand there are VERY good reasons for the delay and that it will be released when its ready.

Its understandable that people judge characters because we have no idea how project M plays and feels anymore. Streams are great,but its easy for us to make false assumptions based upon them, so until the patch is released, you should really expect nieve comments and wild speculation.

Looking forward to the release whenever it happens

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Save your judgements on lucario until you play him in the next version - then we can have a more informed conversation

Very well I'll drop this conversation, I suppose it is a bit pointless to count on observational skill alone.

*edit* I'm sure that naive comments and wild speculation comment wasn't directed at me, but I feel it necessary to point out that it isn't impossible to make a sound logical assumption on character by observing their gameplay from a spectator's perspective.

 

[Ecks]

Been watching the recent videos and I like Lucario's new double team or whatever it's called.

And as for the next release, I still maintain that they should just release a second demo when they're ready. If this is done then for the love of life, put Ness and Lucario in it! Those videos of them are hype. lol

 

[jalued]

Very well I'll drop this conversation, I suppose it is a bit pointless to count on observational skill alone.

*edit* I'm sure that naive comments and wild speculation comment wasn't directed at me, but I feel it necessary to point out that it isn't impossible to make a sound logical assumption on character by observing their gameplay from a spectator's perspective.

yeah it wasnt directed at you, your points were very valid and well structured. I agree completely, thats the problem with the long wait :/

Been watching the recent videos and I like Lucario's new double team or whatever it's called.

And as for the next release, I still maintain that they should just release a second demo when they're ready. If this is done then for the love of life, put Ness and Lucario in it! Those videos of them are hype. lol

dont forget charizard and bowser.. which reminds me: What is causing the glitch with charizards upthrow? Is it fixable atm?

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Thats the unfortunate problem that arises from the way the pmbr has chosen to release this to the public. Its kinda of sad if you think about it, I mean they're kinda in a damned if they do damned if they don't scenario. If they release it now and go the way brawl+ did, they would never be an end to the ludicrous arguments and *****ing about characters, but the method they use now suffers from they longer they go without releasing anything, the more impatient and tired people get of not being able to play it, which leads to the sillyness we have seen on this thread lol.

 

[TeiunBomb]

Think of it this way: Releasing it when everything is ready will help with the game's longevity The metagame will have room to develop with the team not releasing with a patch that tinkers with the characters and the engine every other day; if I'm not mistaken, this is one of the major factors that ultimately killed Brawl+. The rabid speculation and silliness in the thread may be bothersome, but it's also a minor nuisance compared to a small group spending months of their life doing something that they hope everyone will love, and have it wither and die because they succumbed to others' impatience.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

I agree with that, I don't ever recall saying I was against it lol, I was just commenting on the fact that its kinda lame it has to be like that.

With that being said, I think its high time I told the pm team good job for all the hard work they've put in so far, I really don't think you guys get as much praise as you deserve with all the bull**** you guys have to put up with, or all the time and effort you've put into this project, which you're not even getting any money from it, you guys are just doing cause you're awesome like that. So I don't speak for the whole smash community, but I can probably guess that most of them feel this way, I'd just like to say, thank you pm team.

 

[JCaesar]

I dunno about the rest of the PMBR but I make bank in P:M tourneys

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Save your judgements on lucario until you play him in the next version - then we can have a more informed conversation

He's in the next version?

 

[shanus]

He's in the next version?

As I had previously mentioned, in our next version if we felt stuff was ready we would include it. The same rule still applies.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Basically its a good possibility he will be included but you can't say for sure in case something happens, so don't get your hopes up.

 

[CloroxTheKid]

How's puff comin along in regards to feel, rest setup (more melee like), and rising pound.

 

[Shadic]

Jigglypuff had some fairly significant polish errors in the demo that somehow slipped our attention before release. We've since fixed those, and rising pound works better.

Not to mention the various game fixes that impact how Jiggs plays, such as directional influence.

 

[Sneak8288]

almost an hour worth of footage uploaded to my page... more detailed info in the description soon http://www.youtube.com/user/SN3AK8288

 

[jalued]

Has there been any breakthroughs with sticky teching, reverse edgegrabbing, ledge occupancy or grapple recovery?

 

[Revven]

Has there been any breakthroughs with sticky teching, reverse edgegrabbing, ledge occupancy or grapple recovery?

None at all.

 

[saviorslegacy]

You guys still only have the demo done? I was told that there was a more complete version available..... owell. lol

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Your source was either referring to the Genesis 2 tournament set(which is over BTW) or was sorely mistaken.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

After talking to my brother about it, reviewing some of the arguments, and thinking about it a bit, I've come to the conclusion that I was a little to hasty in my judgement in lucario's super system. I guess since I've been playing a lot of blazblue, the idea that one character be given a super system didn't sit well with me, but it seems lucario's version of a super system is different from a traditional one, like in blazblue, its more like a different way to charge moves, I think Cubelarooso made this point. Anyway I'm going to go back to lurking, I've been posting way too much lol, I'll come back to this topic however, when I get to extensively play test lucario.

 

[standardtoaster]

http://www.livestream.com/stprojectm

We have Ace and Libertyernie right now. YoshQ, Geko, Ionic, and Nate will be coming over relatively soon as well.

 

[Sneak8288]

I'm gonna be uploading more videos tonight as well. I have alot of teams footage as well, would people want to watch that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlKyirWoALA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBu0jfyRip4

Previous two uploads now with a match table of contents in the description to find what you want to see quicker

 

[standardtoaster]

We're playing melee now. We'll probably be playing melee for most of the day. There's a small chance we'll switch back to pm today. Just letting you guys know for those who were on the stream or planned on watching it.

 

[jalued]

We're playing melee now. We'll probably be playing melee for most of the day. There's a small chance we'll switch back to pm today. Just letting you guys know for those who were on the stream or planned on watching it.

is that because melee> PM?

 

[MonkUnit]

It's because some of the people here wanted to play brawl and others wanted to play melee. So we have one tv with brawl and the stream tv with melee.

 

[MaxThunder]

*cough*brawl*cough*... ahahahahhhHAHHAHAHAHhahahHAHhahHAHhahHAAaa...

 

[Yagi]

i can stream for awhile. balefireboy is over.

http://www.justin.tv/yagipm