Project M Social Thread

[Archangel]

that's what i'm saying...no character should be doing this well this early on. There is still so much to explore and discover, as it is, any decent smasher can pick up Ike and do well by just spacing fairs and throwing out f-tilts

this is why I feel the pmbr might have overdone some characters.
what happened to every move not needing to be useful? with such "complete characters" matches may tend to have a little too much emphasis on character selection than desired.

The only characters that appear to be overdone that I've seen so far are Ike and Zelda. In a scrubs/mediocre players hands they do decent, in a good players hands they do very well(the goal) However, their version of doing very well is so dominating it almost gets dull because it feels like...they of all the characters haven't earned doing as well as they do just yet.

 

[Wizzrobe]

The only characters that appear to be overdone that I've seen so far are Ike and Zelda. In a scrubs/mediocre players hands they do decent, in a good players hands they do very well(the goal) However, their version of doing very well is so dominating it almost gets dull because it feels like...they of all the characters haven't earned doing as well as they do just yet.

Zelda is overdone?

 

[GimR]

MELEE-FC 10 R is now live, Project M will start at 12PM EST: http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp

 

[trash?]

You would hope that someone would read the "Project M" on the title of the screen and not ask if they're playing brawl.
Stream monsters are the worst

e: Also I think this is, like... the third or fourth time someone has argued about a mechanic being different from melee that doesn't exist, and then proceeding to argue with a PM dev about it.

 

[ELI-mination]

If by third or fourth you mean thousandth, then yes

 

[ds22]

They should put on commentators who actually know about the game being played instead of those who know barely nothing and spread false information.

 

[cannedbread]

>people still thinking zelda is op

 

[DMG]

Hungrybox shaking his head after Vro made that comeback in teams with Ike



You know what he was thinking. **** Ike. Loool

 

[Oracle]

I think ike's level is what we should be aiming for for all the characters

 

[trash?]

Box Disciple confirmed for next version of Project M.

 

[Spoon~]

Vro and Axe take doubles

 

[DMG]

Everyone should not be like Ike power wise. Everyone should be like Mario/in that kind of area. imo

 

[Crispy4001]

Great, great doubles finals!

 

[Wizzrobe]

Wow, i really thought Hbox and Kage would take doubles but Vro and Axe did Great.

 

[DMG]

Ike's a bad character


Oh wait he's going to win FC, needs 1 game over Hungrybox



I figured a Fox or something would stop it, but yeah.



COUNTERED BY Hungrybox, never mind. Guess Jiggs hugs his nuts too hard.







Minor note, the round robin idea kinda killed GF hype imo.

 

[Wizzrobe]

Yes someone finally defeated Vro. good stuff Hbox..

 

[TheReflexWonder]

What an awful Grand Finals. Vro clearly doesn't know how to fight people aerial opponents.

He's all like, "RUN INTO MY MOVES, PLEASE"

 

[Renji64]

H-Box Great job that puff was awesome. I really hope P:M can be taken to the next level tourney wise.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Thank god vro lost. Too bad everybody is going to blame vro for Ike's loss instead of Ike for Vro's loss. Or they'll just say its because of Hbox, even though vro beat Hbox earlier.

 

[DrinkingFood]

What an awful Grand Finals. Vro clearly doesn't know how to fight people aerial opponents.

He's all like, "RUN INTO MY MOVES, PLEASE"

How did I know people were gonna blame it on vro. Before I even finished posting it, even.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I mean, Vro was clearly lacking matchup experience. He should learn to...stay in place a little. He did it to himself.

I don't think Ike is broken as a character by any means. Just Forward-B. That thing is beyond ******** in its current state. Not as a recovery, either. Just on-stage.

 

[V-K]

Did Falcon recieve any buffs over his Melee version?
I mean he was fine in Melee but definitely not one of the frequently picked chars and seeing the match between Darkrain and Vro, I think he has some serious power and range issues against Ike.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Side-b, you mean the only thing that makes Ike even usable?

Also note that vro probably has more experience against melee jigglypuff than Hbox has against Ike:M...

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Side-b, you mean the only thing that makes Ike even usable?

Also note that vro probably has more experience against melee jigglypuff than Hbox has against Ike:M...

It can be reworked without making him absolutely dumb. Besides, he has a lot more going for him than that. Ask any of the other slow characters.

They're both really straightforward characters--It's not a complicated matchup. Vro was just throwing out F-Air like an idiot, probably due to pressure.

 

[Rᴏb]

I do think Vro's nerves got the best of him, there were times where he easily could have recovered but just choked. He also kept going for an fsmash for some reason. Regardless, he played very well at this tournament. I can't help but wonder what this means for Ike.

On a different note, last night Peef said a new patch should be out soon with Samus/ZSS in it. Is this true?

 

[DrinkingFood]

What happened to lacking matchup experience? Now you decided its pretty much unnecessary because how straightforward the characters are? Make up your mind...

 

[DMG]

What an awful Grand Finals. Vro clearly doesn't know how to fight people aerial opponents.

He's all like, "RUN INTO MY MOVES, PLEASE"

Well more like Ike is bad at dealing with people up close. As soon as Hungrybox touched him or got solid pressure up close, he doesn't have many options.

The 1 main thing I saw that was bad, was shielding instead of spacing or jabbing. I didn't see him try to Bair space vs Hungrybox, that might have saved him because Fair is too slow sometimes to quickly challenge Puff/Spaceie/Shiek/quick in your face. You saw that vs Axe a bit too where Axe pressure gave him not a lot of breathing time.

Thank god vro lost. Too bad everybody is going to blame vro for Ike's loss instead of Ike for Vro's loss. Or they'll just say its because of Hbox, even though vro beat Hbox earlier.

Ike has flaws with people up close yes, everyone points that out. But it's double sided: how many people do you think were or are capable of playing Ike like he did this tournament? Imagine Ike players getting that good or IMPROVING beyond what that showed. If you put Ike in a bubble and just assume everyone will deal with him or get better, yeah he doesn't look too hot. But MU experience isn't going to change his Fair being silly, Side B being silly, etc. His strong traits are really strong. Blatantly obvious lol. Sure, Fox can shine all over him, but it's not like Ike puts his sword away and fights with his fists in this game lol. He's got a big peepee and he waves it in front of people's faces for free, ignore that at your own peril.

If anything, this shows that people putting Ike in like, mid tier, is clearly wrong lol. He only looks bad if you assume all of his MU's in tournament are gonna be that darn space animal or that dedicated Shiek or xyz specific not great MU. The character's Fair alone is hard enough for "actually" bad characters to deal with.

 

[DrinkingFood]

I'm not sure what you were getting at there DMG. First you say Vro is good, then you say Ike is good. So Vro should've won by that logic.

 

[Juushichi]

Plus it was obvious that vro played like **** compared to his earlier matches vs HBox. If you think otherwise you are silly. HBox came to a realization and optimized his play in the matchup, but his opponent made what probably would have been a decent set and ran away with it 3-0. Even if this is a new game, Hungrybox has that tense atmosphere experience and vro does not.

That is also a factor.

DrinkingFood you are ridiculous.

Edit: Good job to Hungrybox! Congratulations, I am glad that your win was also very important to you. Shoutouts for the Dev team and the Kishies for allowing this to come together for a beautiful event!

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

On a different note, last night Peef said a new patch should be out soon with Samus/ZSS in it. Is this true?

I thought they decided not to make a zss/samus patch, but i really hope what peef said (assuming he said this idk) was true

 

[DMG]

I'm not sure what you were getting at there DMG. First you say Vro is good, then you say Ike is good. So Vro should've won by that logic.

Vro is good, and Ike is good. Ike has flaws that prevent him from being the best in the game (Fox Falco are clearly better than him, shine being too good as 1 reason).

With that said, the people that toss this character under high tier have got to be crazy. Ike's advantages, his strong traits, are GOOD. This character isn't going to drop to mid tier or become garbage UNLESS you find something like near guaranteed 0-death on him. Fox has some really gay shine stuff which as far as I can tell, is the closest to that barring Ganon CG or DK stuff.


Look at who Vro beat as well. Established Melee players (whether they have put time into this game or not) were there. If Ike was truly a bad character, do you think he could have done this well vs Kage the ****in Warrior, vs Darkrain and Axe, people in bracket earlier AND beating Hungrybox earlier in a set? Vro didn't win with only skill, or only character selection. He was a good player who played Ike well and makes Ike look good. And not in some cheesy "MAN Axe ***** with Pikachu" kinda way (Axe IS ****in good with Pikachu though holy ****). In a solid, understood "hey this character is good" kind of way.


There's plenty of evidence, so far, that Ike is good. Top 5 isn't a stretch honestly at this point. The only convincing thing I have seen against Ike, is getting pooped on up close vs pressure, after/if the opponent has an appropriate answer to his range. His recovery is a bit 50-50 as well, but I've seen him exploited more up close than cleanly edge guarded or ***** (In fact the best thing so far was Hungrybox carrying him off the sides with aerials, but lot of characters have that issue anyways).

 

[DrinkingFood]

Oh if that's all you're getting at I couldn't care less. If Ike is top five but not THE top, then he doesn't need nerfs. I'm just tired of hearing that Ike is broken or OP when he's just a well made, good character who meets the goals of the project.

 

[wiitubeaccount]

Vro played good, but hbox played better when it mattered. Saying Vro lost because he didn't know the matchup vs jiggs is dumb, because the matchup was new for hungry box as well

 

[Wizzrobe]

Vro played good, but hbox played better when it mattered. Saying Vro lost because he didn't know the matchup vs jiggs is dumb, because the matchup was new for hungry box as well

Vro might of not known the MU . Also, lots of people dont play puff so that could be the reason for not knowing the MU.

Hbox does know the MU he even said on stream back at home he had MU training from captain crunch another good ike player.

 

[GP&B]

Did Falcon recieve any buffs over his Melee version?
I mean he was fine in Melee but definitely not one of the frequently picked chars and seeing the match between Darkrain and Vro, I think he has some serious power and range issues against Ike.

Side B can actually grab the ledge and it behaves like it did in Brawl in that hitting people while in the air pops you up and keeps your momentum. vB is actually somewhat useful now. ^B's got better ledge reach now IIRC. So recovery-wise, Falcon's better and Falcon Kick's a more viable option now.

 

[DMG]

Oh if that's all you're getting at I couldn't care less. If Ike is top five but not THE top, then he doesn't need nerfs. I'm just tired of hearing that Ike is broken or OP when he's just a well made, good character who meets the goals of the project.

Certain aspects of him are not "well made" though. Well made in the kind of Melee "I can do a lot because I'm a limiting character" way, yeah he fits that bill to a T.

Character's should be made closer to Mario or Falcon or stuff like that. Not closer to Fox Falco or even Ike for that matter. He has, from a balance and even from a fun having standpoint, some ridiculous moves and traits that could be toned down. Or give him changes that make him less bad once people get in close, and take off some power/range. Who knows... the point though being that this current Ike if you honestly think he's "fair" in the kind of Mario sense then you're silly lol.

He's not "MK" good, he's not good enough to knock Fox Falco off the pedestal, but he's good enough that these people saying Ike sucks, mid tier, ez mode to beat, have got to be popping pills lol. It's been months of most regions having Ike do WELL. The ticker tape parade for "Ike sucks" should be long over lol

 

[Crispy4001]

Anyways, I really want a vid of Vro getting fancy on Chad on FD. Good gif material.

 

[KingBlaze777]

Vro might of not known the MU . Also, lots of people dont play puff so that could be the reason for not knowing the MU.

Vro knows the MU against Melee Puff (which is the same Puff in P:M)

Vro lost because Hbox capitalized on Ike's weakness, that is getting up close and personal with him. Ike is not OP in any form, matter or way, he's good. Any character with a good projectile game can shut him down and any character with a good up close and personal game can shut him down.

The only reason why Ike seems too good is because people chose to get good with Ike and not experiment with enhanced Melee vets (Luigi being a great example of an enhanced Melee vet) or get good with other Bawrl newcomers (D3, Pit, Lucas being good examples). He is easy to pick up and a bit challenging to get good with him (like Sheik in Melee).

 

[DMG]

Because Luigi Lucas D3 are gonna beat Ike? Naw son

Stick with spacies for that.

 

[Crispy4001]

Character's should be made closer to Mario or Falcon or stuff like that. Not closer to Fox Falco or even Ike for that matter. He has, from a balance and even from a fun having standpoint, some ridiculous moves and traits that could be toned down.

This implies that they should also tone down Fox and Falco.

The point is to improve viability and balance. Not to define high tier as Fox and Falco and keep the others down.

Which is ironic in itself, considering that the way you talk about Ike from that sentence could be just as easily applied as a complaint against Jiggs.

Ike's right where he should be. We know he's got potential, we'll see over time if that constitutes genuine imbalance and not just Vro playing awesome against people unfamiliar.