Project M Social Thread

[Shell]

Let's give Wolf N64-style land-cancel shine so that he can do things similar to this...

It'll take a lot of balancing... but that could be really fresh.

 

[BG3]

Lol too bad. He won't .
He needs to satisfy me as a main until I can get Mewtwo in there.

-DD

Mewtwo returns!

 

[DarkDragoon]

Let's give Wolf N64-style land-cancel shine so that he can do things similar to this...

It'll take a lot of balancing... but that could be really fresh.

xD I knew it was going to be either that video or the 1-999% combo.

But really, Ground Cancel on Wolf's shine makes the most sense. He falls really fast and his shine doesn't slow him down, so it would be really effective.

-DD

 

[ETWIST51294]

xD I knew it was going to be either that video or the 1-999% combo.

But really, Ground Cancel on Wolf's shine makes the most sense. He falls really fast and his shine doesn't slow him down, so it would be really effective.

-DD

I like this idea also. Not like my opinion really matters though.

 

[peachfvl]

how far does everyone slide with their wd? because back when we had the MAD codes everyone slided like melee luigi and luigi slided like super wd...

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

I was thinking a shine that can be DJC'd on ISJR frames. Sorta like waveshining but only on jump, and slower.

Dunno how that'd play out.

 

[Death Arcana]

Why wouldn't there be hitstun?

Lack of hitstun just takes us back to vBrawl and hit-and-run tactics, and nobody wants that.

im not saying there isn't i just did not see hitstun or wavedashing in the changelist
and if your trying to get melee 2.0 those are obviously needed
so when i did not see them listed i was like WOW you call yourself melee players. o_O

 

[MK26]

im not saying there isn't i just did not see hitstun or wavedashing in the changelist
and if your trying to get melee 2.0 those are obviously needed
so when i did not see them listed i was like WOW you call yourself melee players. o_O

...


Airdodges: An entirely new air dodge code has been programmed through use of a fighter.pac injection. This air dodge behaves as followed:

Neutral joystick input = Brawl Air Dodge system
Directional joystick input = 100% directional air dodge. At the end, you go into special fall.
The directional air dodges have 10 frames of landlag, are able to slide off of edges, and have yielded additional, new techniques beyond that of classic wavedashing and wavelanding.
Zairs, and items allowed for aerial glidetosses. By rapidly pressing Z during the startup of the air dodge, your character gains a momentum boost in that direction and goes into zair or item throw.

...

Additional changes include:

Hitstun at a value between brawl and brawl+
No air dodging while in tumble
Removal of sideB autosnapping the edges
All other Brawl+ changes

...

derrrrrrrp

 

[Sulfur]

I thought reading was 1st grade O_O

Any answers to how olimar is gonna play? I feel like he's gonna need quite a few changes to make him fit in.

 

[ETWIST51294]

shanus said earlier in the thread that he's experimenting with Olimar being able to replace his pikmin.

Olimar is probably my most anticipated character for this game.

 

[Sulfur]

shanus said earlier in the thread that he's experimenting with Olimar being able to replace his pikmin.

Olimar is probably my most anticipated character for this game.

That sounds confusing. So he won't have the different properties of pikmin to utilize? ie he's a whole new character?

 

[Shadic]

You're reading that entirely wrong, Sulfer. What shanus meant was the ability to replace your furthest-out Pikmin, I believe.

 

[Sulfur]

Oh... haha that makes a lot more sense. I didn't really understand the reasoning.

 

[ETWIST51294]

ninja'd

It seems like it could add a little depth to Oli I guess.

 

[Death Arcana]

ok i see but what about wavedashing
true WAVEDASHING
not the one that makes you spot dodge everytime you wavedash

 

[Sulfur]

generally for a big announcement like this, the first post has information. A least check it before you call people out...

 

[peachfvl]

how far does everyone slide with their wd? because back when we had the MAD codes everyone slided like melee luigi and luigi slided like super wd...

so can someone answer me?

 

[sffadsad]

so can someone answer me?

There will most likely be friction changes made to characters to give them proper slide distances. Brawl+ already has a few.

 

[GPDP]

ok i see but what about wavedashing
true WAVEDASHING
not the one that makes you spot dodge everytime you wavedash

What made the original wavedash code back in the early days of Brawl+ suck was the fact that airdodging into the ground did not produce a special fall landing animation to occur, which is needed so that wavedashes don't stack, and so you're not bringing up your shield or spotdodging all the time.

I assume this incarnation will do so, so there won't be any problems. It should be just like Melee's.

 

[Shell]

This AD code has nothing to do with the old one, it's a new one Shanus has developed using PSA with a little help from Almas and Yeroc, I believe. Please don't base any assumptions on the old code.

It's not 100% perfect yet but it's pretty darn good. It's as "true" as it can be. It's got the appropriate landing lag, the animations are pretty close, the distances traveled both in the air and on the ground are fairly accurate. You can platform dash. You can wave-smash, wave-land, wavedash into edgehog. Wave-whatever.

 

[GPDP]

To those who said wavedashing could never be implemented into Brawl: HA.

Of course, I never doubted it for a second. All we needed was a way to decrease friction and add landing lag, as well as allow for sliding off platforms. Why no one did so until now is beyond me. Though I suspect the backlash against wavedashing from way back when had something to do with it, and again when PW came up with HAD.

Oh well, the important thing is, we have it now. What a glorious day.

Oh, I have a question: will anything be done about PS1's windmill? I suppose that's more of a general Brawl Workshop question, but if we're recreating Melee, shouldn't that be a priority as well? And will we have FD edges that actually allow you to traverse them on the way up instead of killing you?

 

[GwJ]

With FD's wall on the ledge, BrawlWall is able to edit that now, so it can be changed.

 

[ETWIST51294]

What about PS1s stupid edges?

 

[GwJ]

techincally i guess. PS1's stupid edge is a ceiling, not a wall, so I'm not sure how that will work out.

 

[Eldiran]

techincally i guess. PS1's stupid edge is a ceiling, not a wall, so I'm not sure how that will work out.

Actually, so is FD's.

 

[GwJ]

Orly?

You're talking about the lip part right?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I don't play ZSS, but maybe making it so that she could cancel her blaster with a jump or a shield? I can't decide if that'd be broken or worthless.

The blaster sucks and needs something. A change we often throw around in #ZSS is turning into ROB's laser in that it charges on its own over time; this is actually how the blaster operates in every other game of which Zero Suit Samus is playable. I don't know why it operates like it does in Brawl.

Agree with whoever said that we need the removal of stall-and-fall style dairs -- I said it a few pages back myself as well.

Another change is that I'd like ZSS' dsmash to no longer momentum cancel so that you can wavedash down smashes.

Some IASA frames on the jabs so they can cancel like almost everyone else can would be cool too. =/

I dont' actually mind Brawl FD. It adds skill, rite???/

 

[Revven]

Why no one did so until now is beyond me. Though I suspect the backlash against wavedashing from way back when had something to do with it, and again when PW came up with HAD.

Limitations. Do you honestly think we had as much knowledge then as we do now? Uhh, no. PSA wasn't even around and it was all about trying to describe what we wanted from PW and it was up to PW if he would do it or not. He also is one man who has a life and as you can see, only posts every so often (that being when he has something new) always lurking in the shadows.

Even we had finally gotten PSA, we still wouldn't be able to fix HAD anyway, not until Dantarion discovered fighter.pac and came up with a way to modify it since PSA can't. That's why we can do this now and we couldn't earlier. My gosh, you've been around since like Jan of 09, you should already know this by now.

And obv it was going to be excluded for the simple fact that most of the audience attracted to it don't want it.

With FD's wall on the ledge, BrawlWall is able to edit that now, so it can be changed.

Shadic has already made an FD with the Melee curves (like as in actual CURVES not just the attribute changed from wall to ceiling). It should be in the stage hub thread Maestro made and if it's not there, it's in the BrawllWall thread.

Edit: Yeah here it is: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9271046&postcount=47

 

[GPDP]

Eesh, easy there. I wasn't implying the coders were being lazy. Sorry if it came across that way. All I was saying was the development of a proper MAD code was stunted by the controversy surrounding it.

And no, I didn't know about fighter.pac needing to be modified for this to come about. I don't see how I was supposed to know that, anyway. I took a humongous hiatus from this site until recently, after all, so if that came to light during my absence, I apologize for my ignorance...

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

so are u going to make it so u only have melee buffering or will make it so u can choice how much buffer u want?

Also i want to say i feel u guys want to make some unnecessary changes such as wanting to change FDs ledges or even falco's shine and ganon's move animation. i understand if u like melee more then brawl but there is no reason to change everything completely back to how it was in melee. just b/c u might not like brawl as a game some of the new moves and ideas in brawl were good, there is no reason to make ganon a complete clone again if u want to change him give him a move-set that makes sense (why does he not have a energy ball like he does in every game?) instead there is no reason to make him a falcon clone again.

 

[Revven]

In some instances NAGACE, that is true, some of Ganon's new stuff in Brawl is good and some of it is bad. For instance, his Fair wasn't done properly and Shell is merely fixing its animation so it works properly (and by working properly, I mean when you SHFFL it you don't miss it like you do in Brawl). The jab either way is going to be unique so I really don't see the problem in that being changed. Dtilt I'm pretty sure is going to just be flat out fixed so it doesn't stay out as long. The only thing that's going to be brought back that makes Ganon closer to Falcon is the old Usmash... which may not even replace his current Usmash.

I'm not really seeing where they're making Ganon closer to Falcon, because all it is really is Shell polishing Ganon's animations and bringing a few things from Melee that he lost that were actually good and possibly better than what he has in Brawl...

The only thing that was shown to actually being worked on and brought back that's similar to Falcon's Usmash was Usmash from Melee, which that move could go either on Usmash or Utilt...

As for FD, nobody likes the lips of Brawl FD. Everyone pretty much prefers Melee FD, I don't know anyone who likes Brawl FD more than Melee FD. Brawl FD is smaller and has those awful lips. Looks cool at first and then when you actually start playing on it, it's not as good as Melee FD.

 

[_Rated D.R.K_]

Can't wait to see the finished product.

 

[Eldiran]

so are u going to make it so u only have melee buffering or will make it so u can choice how much buffer u want?

Also i want to say i feel u guys want to make some unnecessary changes such as wanting to change FDs ledges or even falco's shine and ganon's move animation. i understand if u like melee more then brawl but there is no reason to change everything completely back to how it was in melee. just b/c u might not like brawl as a game some of the new moves and ideas in brawl were good, there is no reason to make ganon a complete clone again if u want to change him give him a move-set that makes sense (why does he not have a energy ball like he does in every game?) instead there is no reason to make him a falcon clone again.

I think one of the driving forces behind Project M is what could be called nostalgia. (Another driving force is wanting to attract Melee players.) As such, it's in the project's interests to incorporate things that might seem silly to you or me (changing certain animations to Melee style, L-canceling) but will truly help capture the "feel" of Melee. At least that's what I've gathered.

On that note, I think it might behoove you guys to put something of that sentiment into your mission statement. It should help stem the tide of questions regarding the less necessary chages, and help stop arguments about L-canceling and the like.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

^thats true that o one likes the lips but i feel people make a bigger deal out of them then they should.

2: i feel they should make the old up=smash his up-tilt since his new up-smash is not a bad animation. for his d-tilt just make it faster and have less ending lag. and i can see why u would change his f-air from what u explained.

but i have been reading through this thread and it just seems like some people want to get rid of things to make it more melee like when i feel there is no reason. One good example is falco and his shine, i mean pillering is very cool and fun to do but the reason for clones was time constraints so i don't understand changing that back now that they had time to make him less of a clone. i guess what i am saying is change the game and the mechanics first and if something is not working then think about changing the animations.

o and any idea on buffering b/c if there was one thing i did not like in melee it was the buffering system so i hope they keep brawl+'s were u can choice what u want

 

[GPDP]

Eh, I don't mind L-Canceling coming back. It is supposed to feel like Melee, and I can always go back to Brawl+ if my fingers get tired of having to L-Cancel all the time. Yes, I agree it doesn't actually add much depth, if any at all, but I must say I like the feeling of having to do more APM. It makes the game feel faster, even if artificially so. Plus, sometimes while playing Brawl+, I feel like my left index finger is just sitting there, itching for something to do.

But yeah, I'm still a bit iffy on the animations. Though it's good to hear Ganon's not going to become a Melee clone, literally and ironically.

 

[ETWIST51294]

@ NAGACE

Falco without his shine is like Falcon without his knee.

 

[Sterowent]

keep in mind what the title of this project is, guys.


one idea i had about ganon's utilt could be that, rather than simply having him go straight into the windbox animation and holding it, i'd rather see him do a knee jerk with a hitbox, a moderately fast action, as fast as maybe a falcon tilt, but with shorter range. in the startup, he'd bring his knee up, then his leg.

during the end of this 'beginning' of the utilt, a stronger windbox than the one he currently has comes, pulling his opponent in as he flips his leg up, thus pushing them out. after his leg is up, he holds it for much shorter than the current utilt, but with the same windbox characteristics, and drops it ala the current utilt, nerfed or not nerfed if necessary. it would probably be near the same length of time, if not shorter. in this version, the huge startup is replaced with something useful but still not necessarily easy to hit with until he flips his leg and holds it in place. it's not the perfect move, but it was never meant to be.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

@ NAGACE

Falco without his shine is like Falcon without his knee.

but the new shine could lead to something else which could be just as good.
or
they could make the new shine to send u were the old one would have sent u then let u pillar using the new shine instead of changing the animation.

just b/c the people making this want it to feel like melee does not mean they need to change everything back to the way it is i think they should see what they can do with what is new first.

 

[Revven]

NAGACE, if Brawl's shine had the same trajectory as his Melee one, it would also have range as well. While it is rather slow coming out and slow ending, it would be a rather silly idea to allow Falco to have such a ranged attack start up combos so well. Or heck, the trajectory may not even be enough, it would may need to have earlier IASA so he could actually combo off of it.

And then there's the fact that Brawl+ already made good use of Brawl Falco's shine, so remaking Melee Falco's shine here differentiates the two projects further as well as generates interest from the audience they are mainly targeting: Melee players.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Falco without his shine....doesn't feel like Falco. Thats the thing. He just doesn't feel like Falco.

Just so you know, pillaring means to shine dair on someones shield. How are you suppose to do that when you can't JC the shine?

Not to mention shine WD comboes.

His Melee shine is better in every way possible. same with his utilt.